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Posted by artpeterson on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:00 PM
Hi -

This goes back to a theme Al provided on 1 June regarding observation cars. Here's a shot of IT 514 in its original open-platform configuration. The photo was taken in 1929 by Bill Janssen as the train was on the approach to the bridge over the IL River in Peoria.



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Posted by artpeterson on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:06 PM
Continuing with the IT observations, in the mid-to-late 30s the IT modernized several of the cars used in their name-train service. At this point the open platform cars were enclosed (a solarium configuration) and air conditioned. Frank Butts shot this photo of the 512 in St. Louis circa 1939. It is a Kodachrome original, but pre-dates the change in processing methods, which is why it has shifted a bit.


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Posted by artpeterson on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:12 PM
The last installment in the IT observation car story is the arrival of the streamlined, air conditioned, reserved-seat cars with the streamliners in the late 40s. A complete, three car train operating, including a drumhead (a nicety not always used!) is shown in East Peoria on January 29, 1950. George Krambles took the original photo.



Going back to the open platform cars for a moment, the 234 (an office car) retained its open platform. It was preserved by Maury Kleebolt and is at IRM today, along with a number of other IT cars and locomotives.
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 12:53 PM
Thanks for the pictures Art, Especially liked the IT. To bad those trains were scrapped before their time. They sat in a St. Louis scrapyard for many years before going to the scrappers torch.

GREAT
NORTHERN
(GN)
Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The Great Northern became the first railroad to introduce new streamlined full service long distance trains following WW II. Pullman Standard between December 1946 and February 1947 delivered five train sets consisting of twelve cars each in time for the new EMPIRE BUILDERS inaugural February 23, 1947. Each of the new train sets featured three feature cars a 19-crew dormitory 10-seat lunch counter 10-seat lounge car, 36-seat dining car and a 2-double bedroom 1-drawing room buffet 27-seat lounge observation. The lunch counter dining car and the 36-seat dining car operated on a St. Paul-Chicago-Seattle-St. Paul cycle while all other cars operated Chicago-Seattle-Chicago. The lunch counter-lounge car was primarily for the use of coach passengers and the 36-seat dining car was for both coach and Pullman passengers. The sleeper-lounge observation was reserved for Pullman passengers only. One complete set of equipment was CB&Q owned the other four were Great Northern owned. The GN modernized and semi-streamlined a heavyweight dining car 1032 MINNESOTA, for standby service in the EMPIRE BUILDER if it became necessary to substitute for one of the trains fully streamlined diners. It was difficult to see if this car was operating in a EMPIRE BUILDER consist as the streamlining accomplished on this car by GN shops was excellent, the telltale was the six-wheel trucks under this car. The three feature cars of the 1947 edition of the EMPIRE BUILDER were both numbered and named.

19-CREW DORMITORY 10-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 10-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard January-February 1947 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later WESTERN STAR)

GN

1140 WATERTON LAKE

1141 ST. MARY LAKE

1142 TWO MEDICINE LAKES

1143 COEUR D’ALENE LAKE

CB&Q

1144 RED EAGLE LAKE

36-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard January – February 1947 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later WESTERN STAR)

GN

1150 LAKE SUPERIOR

1151 LAKE McDONALD

1152 LAKE CHELAN

1153 LAKE JOSEPHINE

CB&Q

1154 LAKE MICHIGAN

2-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 27-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard January – February 1947 Plan: 4109 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later WESTERN STAR)

GN

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER

1191 MISSOURI RIVER

1192 FLATHEAD RIVER

1193 KOOTENAI RIVER

CB&Q

1194 MARIAS RIVER

The GN semi-streamlined a connecting train to the EMPIRE BUILDER that operated between Great Falls and Havre. This connecting train comprised a rebuilt and streamlined motorcar with a baggage compartment one heavyweight coach semi streamlined and the third car was a converted from a heavyweight coach. The car number 1059 ROBERT S. FORD featured 12-seat Dinette and 14 –seat Parlor for those passengers traveling first class on the main EMPIRE BUILDER either eastbound or westbound. The motorcar was replaced by a conventional diesel and baggage car after the hybrid was found unsatisfactory in maintaining the connecting service.
In order to give the commissary in St. Paul additional time in preparing the lunch counter lounge car and dining car for each days eastbound EMPIRE BUILDER the GN built an additional car of each of these types in their own shops. The GN built cars were both completed in July 1949 and were identical to the Pullman Standard built cars of 1947. The GN cars were painted and lettered for EMPIRE BUILDER service at the time of delivery.

19-CREW DORMITORY 10-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 10-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Great Northern Shops July 1949 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER pool later WESTERN STAR)
1148 DEVILS LAKE

36-SEAT DINING CAR Great Northern Shops July 1949 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER pool later WESTERN STAR)

1155 LAKE WASHINGTON

In June 1950 the GN introduced three completely new daytime 5-car streamliners. Two of these were the new INTERNATIONALS operating a three times daily round trip schedule between Seattle and Vancouver, British Columbia. Each of these American Car & Foundry built streamliners carried two feature cars. Each INTERNATIONAL train set carried a 28-seat coach 24-seat café car 1145 or 1146. Each cars kitchen separated the coach seating and café seating.
The Parlor Observations of the INTERNATIONALS provided a small buffet for the car attendant to serve first class passengers drinks from. These two beautiful cars featured a customs inspection room the small buffet a parlor bedroom 17-parlor seats and 17-seat lounge observation. These two cars were numbered and named 1195 PORT OF SEATTLE and 1196 PORT OF VANCOUVER.

28-REVENUE SEAT COACH KITCHEN 24-SEAT CAFÉ CARS American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned to INTERNATIONALS)

1145, 1146

CUSTOMS OFFICE BUFFET PARLOR BEDROOM 17-REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 17-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned to INTERNATIONALS)

1195 PORT OF SEATTLE

1196 PORT OF VANCOUVER

The other five-car streamliner introduced in June 1950 was the RED RIVER between Grand Forks and St. Paul round trip daily. This train carried one feature car the Observation 1147 RED RIVER. This car offered an 8-seat dining room 9-seat lunch counter 16-seat Parlor observation.

8-SEAT DINING 9-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 16-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATION American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned RED RIVER)

1147 RED RIVER

In December 1950 Pullman Standard delivered nine sleeping cars to the Great Northern one of these was a sleeper-lounge-observation identical to the earlier ones from Pullman Standard built for the EMPIRE BUILDER in 1947. The reason for the new cars was a sixth consist was needed for the inaugural of the WESTERN STAR a new streamlined train to be inaugurated on June 3, 1951 between Chicago and Seattle-Portland on a slower schedule than the EMPIRE BUILDER thus the need for six sets of equipment. Actually the new WESTERN STAR would operate using the 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER equipment and the EMPIRE BUILDER was reequipped with all new fifteen car consists inaugurated the same date June 3, 1951.

2-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 27-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard December 1950 Plan: 4109A Lot: 6878 (Built for and assigned to WESTERN STAR)

1197 PRIEST RIVER

The new 1951 EMPIRE BUILDERS provided three feature cars in each fifteen-car consist. For the coach passengers there was the new G-N Ranch car with its 14-seat lunch counter 12-seat dinette 18-seat lounge. Another of the 1951 EMPIRE BUILDER feature cars was new 36-seat dining car. The other feature car was the Buffet Lounge Observations. The Great Northern purchased six each of the feature cars in order to change all three out on their eastbound trip at St. Paul and fully replenished cars would be added at that time. American Car & Foundry constructed all three-feature cars along with the head end cars and 60-seat coaches. Pullman constructed the new EMPIRE BUILDERS Sleeping cars and 48 seat leg-rest coaches.
Great Northern referred to the large windows located in the lounge observations as picture windows. Each of these cars also carried three Roomettes one for the car attendant, one for the Pullman conductor and the third for the Traveling passenger representative carried on the EMPIRE BUILDER. Only the Great Northern would ever own streamlined observations with roomettes as accommodation. A buffet and 38-lounge seats in the observation occupied the rest of these cars. The Great Northern received six each of the feature cars for the Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER.

G-N RANCH 14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 12-SEAT DINETTE 18-SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry May 1951 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

1240 CROSSLEY LAKE

1241 RUNNING CRANE LAKE

1242 HIDDEN LAKE

1243 ICEBERG LAKE

1244 WHITE PINES LAKE

1245 WHITEFISH LAKE

36-SEAT DINING CARS American Car & Foundry May 1951 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES

1251 LAKE WENATCHEE

1252 LAKE ELLEN WILSON

1253 LAKE UNION

1254 LAKE MINNETONKA

1255 LAKE OF THE WOODS

3-CREW ROOMETTE BUFFET 38-SEAT PICTURE WINDOWED LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS American Car & Foundry May 1951 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

1290 APPEKUNNY MOUNTAIN

1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN

1292 GOING-TO-THE-SUN MOUNTAIN

1293 CATHEDRAL MOUNTAIN

1294 TREMPALEAU MOUNTAIN

1295 LITTLE CHIEF MOUNTAIN

For there next trains to be modernized the Great Northern turned to the 944-949 series of prewar 58-seat coaches that had served in the heavyweight EMPIRE BUILDER. Six of these 58-seat cars were assigned to the BADGER-GOPHER with two of the cars having seating reduced to 44. The reason for the seat reduction in cars 944 and 945 was a Train Sales Galley was installed in these cars for an attendant to travel through the coaches offering hot and cold drinks sandwiches and snacks. One of these cars was assigned to each GOPHER train set doubling in the BADGER service as well. These cars operated a round trip daily between St. Paul and Duluth.
In addition to the two train sales galley equipped coaches the GN shops modernized and remodeled to heavyweight Pullman Standard coaches originally built as parlor cars into Café Parlor Observations for the postwar BADGER-GOPHER service. The two cars when completed by GN shops featured a 10-seat Dinette and 26-seat Parlor Observation.
Pullman sold heavyweight parlor cars CORDELIA and NATALIE to the GN in June 1942. The GN rebuilt both to coaches numbering them 1083 and 1084 respectively. When the two cars were shopped in April 1952 they emerged as fully modern streamlined appearance Café Parlor Observations with squared off rear observation ends. After rebuilding the cars retained the numbers 1083 and 1084 but names were added 1083 was named TWIN CITIES and 1084 was named TWIN PORTS.
In June 1953 the CB&Q sold WESTERN STAR cars 1144-RED EAGLE LAKE and 1154-LAKE MICHIGAN to the Great Northern. The cars retained the same numbers in GN ownership.
In September 1953 the GN transferred one set of the Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER equipment to CB&Q ownership. The three feature cars transferred to CB&Q ownership were 1243 ICEBERG LAKE, 1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES and 1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN.
In August 1954 the GN shops completed the rebuilding of two heavyweight dining cars into modernized coach dining cars for service in the CASCADIAN the GN trains that operated on a daylight schedule between Seattle and Spokane daily in each direction. Once again the GN assigned 938-943 series coaches to these trains and the two Café-Dining cars numbers 1060 and 1061. These two cars were originally heavyweight dining cars 1030 OREGON and 1031 WISCONSIN, when modernized by GN shops they resembled lightweights except for there telltale six wheel trucks. The interiors were fitted with 18-reserved coach seats at one end and a 16-seat Café at the other end of these cars. They carried the train name on either side of the vestibule and were equipped with a red mars light to bring up the rear of the CASCADIAN trains.
The two cars were assigned to the DAKOTAN trains after the CASCADIANS had been discontinued.
In March 1956 GN rebuilt two of their 16-Duplex Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping cars 1175 OBERLIN GLACIER and 1177 HARRISON GLACIER. When the two cars emerged from the shops it was with new numbers and names 1198 MANTOBA CLUB and 1199 WINNIPEG CLUB. The new interiors fitted contained 8-Duplex Roomettes 2-Double Bedrooms Buffet 12-seat Dinette 12-seat Lounge. The two cars were rebuilt for the overnight WINNIPEG LIMITEDS between St. Paul and Winnipeg.

8-DUPLEX ROOMETTE 2-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 12-SEAT DINETTE 12-SEAT LOUNGE CARS (Rebuilt March 1956 assigned to WINNIPEG LIMITED)

1198 MANITOBA CLUB originally 1175 OBERLIN GLACIER

1199 WINNIPEG CLUB originally 1177 HARRISON GLACIER

TTFN Al

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Posted by artpeterson on Tuesday, June 6, 2006 1:23 PM
Hi Al -

Thanks for the GN posting; always a favorite. Glad you liked the IT coverage. In the mid-70s I saw the cars in that scrapyard - pretty amazing that they made it that late, albeit in rough shape!

In reality too bad the IT took the plunge on the "streamliners", though they were an interesting facet of the roster. Of course, they wreaked havoc on the operation requiring the service cut-back to East Peoria and the need to wye each car individually in St. Louis. When IR went out of business, the lightweights were being sold off for $1,000 each. More than one of the fans made the observation that IT could have bought 1,000 lightweights for what they paid for the streamliners!
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 7:12 AM
CANADIAN
NATIONAL
(CNR)
Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al


In 1954 the Canadian National received new streamlined cars from Pullman Standard, National Steel Car Co. Ltd. and Canadian Car & Foundry Ltd. The orders were among the largest orders placed for streamlined equipment. From National Steel Car came new head end cars to equip the new passenger trains soon to enter service. From Canadian Car & Foundry 212 new 80-seat coaches’ one of the largest orders for one type car ever ordered. The remaining streamlined car types were built by Pullman Standard for services the length and breadth of Canada. Many interior appointments of the Pullman Standard cars were added to the cars after delivery to Canadian National in the railroads own shops.
In May 1954 eight 2-Compartment 2-Double Bedroom Buffet 29-seat Lounge cars were delivered for operation in the OCEAN LIMITED, INTERNATIONAL LIMITED and overnight Toronto – Montreal services. All eight CAPE series car were transferred to VIA Rail Canada in March 1978.

2-COMPARTMENT 2-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 29-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard May 1954 Plan: 4189A Lot: 6928 (Built for and assigned to OCEAN LIMITED – INTERNATIONAL LIMITED – CAVALIER)

1082 CAPE ROSIER

1083 CAPE BRULE

1084 CAPE PORCUPINE

1085 CAPE RACE

1086 CAPE CANSO

1087 CAPE BRETON

1088 CAPE CHIGNECTO

1089 CAPE TORMENTINE

Four “WHITE” series cars with 8 Sections 1 Double Bedroom 16-seat Dinette and Kitchen were delivered in June 1954. These cars were built for service in the new SUPER CONTINENTAL between Capreol and Winnipeg through the remote territory of northern Ontario the railroad passed through. The 1010 WHITE ROCK was rebuilt to a club car with seating for 38 and an airline style galley was installed for the first class passengers. The car was renumbered and renamed after rebuilding in May 1964 receiving the new number 663 and name CLUB DE LA GARNISON. A similar rebuilding took place to 1011 WHITE RAPIDS in July 1964 and the new name and number 662 CLUB LAURIER was applied. The other two cars 1012 WHITE OAK and 1013 WHITE SANDS were renumbered only 1358 and 1357 in that order in July 1964. All four cars were transferred to VIA Rail Canada ownership in March 1978.

8-SECTION 1-DOUBLE BEDROOM 16-SEAT DINETTE KITCHEN CARS Pullman Standard June 1954 Plan: 4188 Lot: 6927 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CONTINENTAL across Northern Ontario)

1010 WHITE ROCK

1011 WHITE RAPIDS

1012 WHITE OAK

1013 WHITE SANDS

Nine Kitchen 16-Seat Dinette 20-seat Parlor Cars were also part of the huge Pullman Standard order and were delivered in July 1954. These cars were built for services between Halifax – Sydney, St. John – Cape Tormentine, Toronto – Niagara Falls, Winnipeg – Saskatoon and Winnipeg and Port Arthur. Instead the cars operated between Toronto – Sarnia, Toronto – Windsor, Montreal – Ottawa and Montreal – Quebec City. All nine cars transferred to VIA Rail Canada service in March 1978. Originally numbered 900 to 908 the cars were renumbered 1360 – 1368 between April and June 1965.

KITCHEN 16-SEAT DINETTE 20-SEAT PARLOR CARS Pullman Standard May 1954 Plan: 7638 Lot: 6929 (Built for and assigned to various services)

900 FRANCOISE LAKE

901 BABINE LAKE

902 BEAVERHILL LAKE

903 MOOSE LAKE

904 SEVERN LAKE

905 RADIANT LAKE

906 GRAND LAKE

907 BRAS D’OR LAKE

908 LUSTER LAKE

Pullman Standard delivered a very large lot consisting of fourteen dining cars to the CN in August 1954, these cars were configured as 40-seat dining cars but many later were converted to full 48-seat dining cars. The conversion was simply a matter of replacing four tables for two with four tables for four and the addition of eight dining chairs. The CN initially assigned these cars to the SUPER CONTINENTAL and OCEAN LIMITED. In later years these cars could be found operating in any train as all streamlined dining cars were pooled. The cars were numbered 1337 – 1350 and all were transferred to VIA Rail Canada in March 1978 except for 1345 that was wrecked retired and scrapped in June 1975.

40-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard August 1954 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CONTINENTAL – OCEAN LIMITED)

1337 - 1350


There were six 26-seat Lunch Counter 6-crew dormitory cars delivered by Pullman Standard in September 1954. The CN referred to these cars as dinettes and all carried numbers 425 – 430. Initially the cars were assigned to the SUPER CONTINENTAL between Montreal and Winnipeg and to pool train service between Toronto and Montreal. All six cars were transferred to VIA Rail Canada in March 1978.

6-CREW DORMITORY 26-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER CARS Pullman Standard September 1954 (Built for and assigned to SUPER CONTINENTAL)

425 – 430

In 1965 Canadian National in anticipation of the coming EXPO 67 realized there would be a shortage of Dining cars especially if two sections of certain trains were operated.
The easiest solution to this shortage was to rebuild ten of their 60-revenue seat coaches built by Canadian Car & Foundry dating from April 1947 into 48-seat dining cars. This was undertaken in the railroads Montreal shops and ten dining cars were completed during the year. They were numbered 1369-1378 after rebuilding were assigned to the SUPER CONTINENTAL and PANORAMA pool of cars operating between Montreal and Vancouver. These ten cars except for 1373 were all transferred to VIA Rail Canada. Dining car 1373 was destroyed by fire in 1971 retired and scrapped.

CN 1369 originally CN 5384

CN 1370 originally CN 5385

CN 1371 originally CN 5387

CN 1372 originally CN 5391

CN 1373 originally CN 5392

CN 1374 originally CN 5397

CN 1375 originally CN 5398

CN 1376 originally CN 5401

CN 1377 originally CN 5408

CN 1378 originally CN 5410

Beginning in August 1967 the Canadian National introduced new Tempo trains to southwest Ontario services. The new trains were the first HEP powered trains to enter Canadian service. Hawker Siddeley Canada Ltd constructed the cars at their Thunder Bay plant. These cars were Aluminum and carried the brushed aluminum finish with black accents. Service was provided from Toronto by two routes to London, Ont. Where the routes joined but only briefly until they split once again with one line going to Sarnia the other to Windsor. The Tempo trains were powered by 1,800 hp MLW RS-18 Road Switchers painted in a gray and orange scheme. A Cummins HEP package was installed in the short hood to provide the train’s hotel power.
Originally their were five 39-seat Club cars (Parlor cars) equipped with Airline style galleys to provide food and beverage service at the club car seats, seating was paired seats on one side of the aisle and single seats on the other. These five cars were numbered 320-324. In 1967 car 320 was remodeled to an 80-seat Coach and renumbered 375. Two years later in 1969 car 324 was remodeled to a 52-revenue seat coach and retained its galley with no change of number. This car provided a semi first class service between Toronto and London for a fare less than club but higher than regular coach. In 1974 the car was shopped once again and converted to an 80-seat coach and renumbered 376.
Also in August 1967 there were five 16-revenue seat coach snack bar 26-seat lounge cars delivered for TEMPO service with numbers 340-344. In 1969 car 341 was remodeled with 24-revenue coach seats. It retained the snack bar and 26-seat lounge. Passengers could purchase snacks and return to their seats with their purchases to consume those purchases using a pull down tray from the seat ahead. The beverage lounge was separated from the rest of the one end of the car by a corridor down one side, this kept minors out of the beverage lounge area.

TTFN Al
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Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 12:12 PM
Hi Al -

Following up to our discussion about the IT "streamliners" rotting away in that St. Louis scrapyard, here's a shot I took on January 24, 1977. The 351 is the car closest to the camera.


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Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 12:16 PM
As a final installment in the interurban streamlined train/observation "story", here's a shot of one of the CNS&M "Electroliners" southbound near Asbury Street, Evanston. Bill Janssen took the photo on September 29, 1957.




Of course, CNS&M also had open-platform observations. These were rebuilt to coaches as they needed additional capacity to cope with increased ridership during the war. CSS&SB had solarium-type parlors, with six-wheel trucks and some with four-wheel designs. The "big" cars were sold off, while the four-wheel trucked cars became coaches.

Enjoy!

Art
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Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 12:22 PM
Picking up on the GN theme from yesterday, here's a shot of 1293 "Cathedral Mountain" on the rear of Amtrak Train 10 the "North Coast Hiawatha" in Milwaukee on July 30, 1972. Always REALLY liked the look of these cars!



Cheers!

Art
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Posted by artpeterson on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 12:25 PM
One last ex-GN observation shot, again of the 1293 on the rear of Amtrak Train 10 leaving Milwaukee on July 30, 1972. Sorry about the vegetation sprouting up in front of the rear truck, and that shadow 3/4 of the way back on the car!

Art


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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:17 PM
The GN Mountain series Observations were the only ones of their type ever built. They had two or if you count the car attendants three Roomettes. When in Empire Builder service the three Roomettes were occupied by the Gn Passenger agent , Pullman Conductor and car attendant. They were bult to plese the first class passengers and never heard any complaints. Built by American Car & Foundry I have always thought they were the finest lounge observations built. When transferred to the Western Star and that train was combined with the Fast Mail they operated mid-train what a shame! There was always several storage mail cars trailing these beautiful cars. Even when one of the cars was painted in SP daylight colors it was easy to see it was a former GN car by the window arrangement when it went to the Louisiana Fair behind the 4449.

TTFN Al
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 5:39 PM
There are a couple mistakes in the L&N post on page 59 of this thread.

The Gulf Wind operated from New Orleans to Jacksonville over the L&N and the Seaboard Airline, not the Atlantic Coast Line as the post says.

The Azalean (according to Peter Malkin's "Night Train") was a Cincinnati-New Orleans trains, not a Crescent Route train as the post says. It carried a New York-Cincinnati-Birmingham sleeper into the 1950s.
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Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:15 PM
Greetings Guys!

Looks like the Al & Art show since Tom departed for Alaska! Nice work keeping the thread up 'n running! [tup]

I see the resident JO has popped in once again with his nonsense. This guy has no e-mail address for us to communicate privately with him nor does he provide a name. So, who gives a Rat's Patoot about his thoughts [?] JOs are not welcome here - hasn't that point gotten to you yet [?]

By the way, perhaps by reading the material, you will see that those you question are not intended to be all inclusive. I have a suggestion for guys like you - create your own thread and get the heck off this one! [tdn] I'll go with anything provided here by the guys who frequent it - especially from Wikipedia sources and published book sources.

Now - I feel sooooooooo much better! [swg]

Still trying to play catch up with the posts here and over at the bar - just wanted to see what's been happenin' here . . . .

I'll try to provide something meaningful in a day or two.

Until the next time!

Lars
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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, June 8, 2006 6:45 AM
Nice to see Lars is back.

Will follow up yesterdays post with another Canadian Road's Dining & Lounge Cars.

CANADIAN
PACIFIC
(CPR)
Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The Canadian Pacific operated a number of lightweight streamlined dining and lounge cars. Many were built in the CP Montreal shops from frames supplied by National Steel Car Company Ltd. The CPR built four streamlined trains in 1936 for high-speed service in Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec powered by new 4-4-4 streamlined “Jubilee” locomotives. Each four-car train was identical a Baggage-Buffet-8-seat Dinette 20-seat Coach provided the food and beverage service on these trains. The total seating capacity of the trains was 100. The two train sets operated in Quebec ran between Montreal – Quebec City as the WINDSOR and FRONTENAC. The train between Toronto and Detroit was named the ROYAL YORK. The western train was named the CHINOOK operating round trip daily between Calgary and Edmonton. Car numbers 3051 and 3052 were retired in 1967 and rebuilt for Maintenance of Way service. The 3051 was sold to the National Museum of Science and Technology where it is displayed today.
Car numbers 3050 and 3053 were retired from service in 1969 and sold for scrap.

25’ BAGGAGE BUFFET 8-SEAT DINETTE 20-SEAT COACHES CPR Shops August – September 1936 (Built for assignment to the CHINOOK FRONTENAC ROYAL YORK WINDSOR)

3050 – 3053

In June 1938 an additional streamlined car was built for one of he trains the ROYAL YORK. This car was a Buffet 17-seat Lounge 22-seat Parlor Observation car. The observation end of this car was blunt ad equipped with a diaphragm at both ends. There were windows on either side of the diaphragm of the end of the car operated as the observation end. In 1968 the 6630 was sold to the QNS&L with no change of number or paint scheme.

BUFFET 17-SEAT LOUNGE 22-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATION CPR Shops June 1938 (Built for and assigned to ROYAL YORK)

6630

Between September 1947 and March 1949 CPR Montreal shops constructed ninety-nine 68-seat coaches divided into smoking and non-smoking sections the smoking section seating 24 and the non-smoking section seating 44. The cars were numbered 2200 – 2298, the reason they are mentioned here is that three of these cars 2289 –2291 were rebuilt in 1958 to 40-seat Parlor cars renumbered 6600 – 6602 arranged with two and one seating and were equipped with an airline style galley for food service at passengers seats. The cars were assigned to the pool trains between Montreal and Toronto operated jointly with the CNR.
In 1953 the CPR decided to streamline their transcontinental services with two train’s one new fully streamlined train the CANADIAN the other train named the DOMINION would be partially equipped with new streamlined cars and heavyweights in combination.
Each streamlined CANADIAN was assigned three feature cars per consist and the DOMINION was likewise equipped with the new cars built by Budd with Canadian content such as trucks and other items in the cars construction. In order to equip the two transcontinental streamliners the CPR ordered a total of 54 feature cars from Budd to equip the CANADIAN, DOMINION and ATLANTIC LIMITED with spares held in reserve. There were three types of feature cars the SKYLINE DOME car was a multi-purpose car with 26 coach seats forward of the dome on the main level, beneath the dome was a kitchen and six seat dinette, on the main level aft of the dome was a Buffet area with seating for 23 where meals and beverages were consumed by coach passengers of the CANADIAN and DOMINION. Those SKYLINE Dome cars assigned to the ATLANTIC LIMITED served both the coach and sleeping car passengers of that train as the SKYLINE Dome was the only food and beverage car in the consists. The standard 24-seat dome was for coach passengers of the CANADIAN and DOMINION. Each consist carried a single SKYLINE Dome car. The cars all carried the name SKLINE on there flanks and were numbered 500 – 517 All SKYLINE Dome cars were transferred to VIA Rail Canada ownership.

24-SEAT DOME 26-SEAT COACH KITCHEN 6-SEAT DINETTE 23-SEAT BUFFET CARS Budd Company 1954 – 1955 (Built for and assigned to CANADIAN – DOMINION – ATLANTIC LIMITED)

500 – 517

There were eighteen 48-seat dining cars built for the CANADIAN, DOMINION and pool service trains between Montreal and Toronto. They were assigned one per consist to each of the trains. The CANADIAN and DOMINION operated with two Dining room crews in their transcontinental trips. One crew operated between Montreal and Winnipeg the other between Winnipeg and Vancouver. This practice is continued today in VIA Rail Canada service. The new 48 seat dining cars were named only assigned names of Canadian Pacific Hotel Dining Rooms and Lounges.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company 1954 – 1955 (Built for and assigned to CANADIAN – DOMINION)

ACADIAN

ALEXANDRA

ALHAMBRA

ANNAPOLIS

CARTIER

CHAMPLAIN

EMERALD

EMPRESS

FAIRHOLME

FRONTENAC

IMPERIAL

KENT

LOUISE

PALLISER

PRINCESS

SELKIRK

WASCANA

YORK

The most talked about car in the CANADIAN and DOMINION trains were the PARK series Dome –Sleeper Lounge Observation cars. These cars were the perfect ending to any streamliner. Almost identical to those built for the CB&Q-D&RGW-WP CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR America’s cruise train, it was only fitting that Canada’s cruise train the CANADIAN have similar cars carrying the tail signs. These eighteen cars built for the CANADIAN and Dominion carried names only. The names selected were the names of Provincial and National Parks thus the reason the cars were always referred to as the Park cars. The interiors of these cars were floor planned with 3-double bedrooms 1-Drawing Room on the main level forward of the dome on the main level. Beneath the dome was a bar and 12-seat cocktail lounge, to the rear once again on the main level was a 14-seat Lounge Observation. The Dome level seated the usual 24 ad the PARK cars were for the exclusive use of sleeping car passengers. Of the eighteen built seventeen all but YOHO PARK that was destroyed in an accident went to VIA Rail Canada. Next to the car names below is the province where the park is located.

24-SEAT DOME 3-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM 12-SEAT LOUNGE BAR 14-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company 1954-55 (Built for and assigned to CANADIAN – DOMINION)

ALGONQUIN PARK – ONTARIO

ASSINIBOINE PARK – B. C.

BANFF PARK – ALBERTA

EVANGELINE PARK – N. S.

FUNDY PARK – N. B.

GLACIER PARK – B. C.

KOKANEE PARK – B. C.

KOOTENAY PARK – B. C.

LAURENTIDE PARK – QUEBEC

PRINCE ALBERT PARK – SASK.

REVELSTOKE PARK – B. C.

RIDING MOUNTAIN PARK – MANITOBA

SIBLEY PARK – ONTARIO

STRATHCONA PARK – B. C.

TREMBLANT PARK – QUEBEC

TWEEDSMUIR PARK – B. C.

WATERTON PARK – ALBERTA

YOHO PARK – B. C.

TTFN Al
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    January 2002
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Posted by artpeterson on Thursday, June 8, 2006 12:37 PM
Hi Al -

Need your help in identifying a PRR train. This image was taken at North Philadelphia on July 3, 1960 by Bill Janssen. The second car in the train appears to be a blunt-end obs, numbered, but not named. Appreciate whatever assistance you can offer!

Art


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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, June 8, 2006 1:54 PM
Art the only train I can think of with an observation operating in that position from NY was the Jeffersonian that operated as far as Philadelphia before the Observation would have been on the rear to Harrisburg and on to St. Louis. Or it might have been the combined General and Trail Blazer that carried the coaches to the rear and also tuned at Philadelphia.
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Posted by artpeterson on Thursday, June 8, 2006 2:32 PM
Thanks Al! With the Chestnut Hill track diverging off to the left foreground this looks to be a late afternoon-early evening shot (certainly there's low light illuminating the underbody details, so perhaps more into the evening). I'll check the PRR timetables of the era to see which of the trains you suggested might have passed through N. Philadelphia around that time.
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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, June 9, 2006 8:02 AM
Good Morning. Continuing with Dining and Lounge cars thought I would go to the South East.

ATLANTIC
COAST
LINE
(ACL)
Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The Atlantic Coast Line introduced their first lightweight streamlined trains December 1, 1939 with the introduction of daily CHAMPIONS between New York and Miami. The new CHAMPIONS were seven-car coach streamliners built by the Budd Company. Three train sets were constructed in order to provide daily service. Two of the trains were owned by the ACL and the third was owned by the FEC who operated the new streamliners between Jacksonville and Miami. Each of the new trains delivered by Budd in November 1939 was diesel powered south of Washington. North of Washington they operated under Pennsylvania catenary usually behind one of that roads famous GG-1 electrics.
The new seven car streamliners each operated with two feature cars per consist serving the 254-coach seats. The fourth car in each CHAMPION train set was a 48-seat dining car and the seventh car in each consist was a 32-seat tavern bar-buffet 21 seat lounge observation. These beautifully rounded Budd observations would be the only ones purchased by the ACL, as all future Budd built observations would be blunt end cars in order that they could be operated mid-train if necessary. The two ACL dining cars were named PHILADELPHIA and NEW YORK and the FEC dining car in CHAMPION service was named FORT PIERCE. The ACL Tavern-Lounge observations were numbered 250 and 251, while FEC named theirs BAY BISCAYNE. The 250 was destroyed in a wartime accident of the TAMIAMI CHAMPION in July 1943. In 1952 ACL rebuilt the 251 to a blunt end observation matching all postwar ACL observations.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company November 1939 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION trains)

ACL

NEW YORK

PHILADELPHIA

FEC

FORT PIERCE

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR-BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company November 1939 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION trains)

ACL

250, 251

FEC

BAY BISCAYNE

So popular were the new CHAMPIONS with the traveling public that additional cars were ordered for late 1940 delivery that would expand the consists to fourteen cars each doubling the size of the initial train sets. Now each expanded train set operated with two 48-seat dining cars and two 32-seat tavern lounge Bar-Buffet 21-seat lounge observations. Now the fifth car in each consist was a 48-seat dining car, the eighth car was a new blunt end tavern lounge bar buffet Lounge Observation, the eleventh car was a 48-seat dining car and the fourteenth and last car was one of the 1939 round end tavern lounge bar-buffet lounge observations.
The new cars were all delivered by Budd in December 1940-January 1941. The new cars were all ACL owned except for three Pennsylvania owned 60-seat coaches their first cars for the CHAMPION pool.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company December 1940 - January 1941 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

ACL

BALTIMORE

BOSTON

NEWARK

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR-BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company December 1940 – January 1941 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

ACL

252-254

The ACL increased the CHAMPION pool following WW-II with the purchase of 21 cars from Budd, the PRR contributed 12 coaches and the RF&P contributed eight coaches their first for the CHAMPION pool. At the same time the FEC purchased nineteen additional cars from Budd for the CHAMPION pool and other trains. Among the cars purchased were one 24-seat dining 18-seat lounge car two 48-seat dining cars and three 32-seat tavern lounge bar-buffet 21-seat lounge observations. At last the CHAMPIONS could operate trains to both Florida coasts with enough cars for winter operations that did not require splitting the trains at Jacksonville, now there were through CHAMPIONS to both coasts. In the slower summer season the CHAMPIONS would still operate combined between New York and Jacksonville. The lone Dining Lounge car two 48-seat dining cars were ACL owned, as were the final three 32-seat tavern lounge bar-buffet 21-seat lounge observations. All of the Budd cars were delivered between May 1946 and May 1947. Budd delivered the new 48-seat dining cars were delivered in April – May 1947 and Budd delivered the new Tavern Lounge Observations in May 1947. The lone ACL owned Dining Lounge car ST. PETERSBURG was quickly remodeled to a 48-seat dining car after entering service.

48-SEAT DINING CARS Budd Company April – May 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

ACL

TAMPA

WASHINGTON

FEC

FORT DALLAS

FORT MATANZAS

FORT SAN MARCO

24-SEAT DINING 18-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Budd Company May 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

ACL

ST. PETERSBURG

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR-BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) May 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

ACL

255-257

FEC

LAKE OKEECHOBEE

32-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR – BUFFET 21-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Round) May – 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPION pool)

FEC

HOBIE SOUND

ST. LUCIE SOUND

The FEC owned round observations were assigned to the EAST COAST CHAMPION from New York to Miami bringing up the markers with blunt end ACL and FEC observations mid-train. The WEST COAST CHAMPION trains operated with blunt end tavern lounge observations mid-train and bringing up the markers.
For the sleeping cars passenger new lightweight streamlined cars were delivered in the last half of 1949. Among the cars delivered were nine 6-Double Bedroom Buffet 24-seat lounge cars from AC&F. These nine cars owned by the ACL, FEC and RF&P were assigned to the FLORIDA SPECIALS (6) in the winter months with the remaining three assigned to the EAST COAST CHAMPION. Summers the trains were assigned to the EAST COAST and WEST COAST CHAMPIONS.

6-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 24-SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry November – December 1949 Plan: 9006 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS and FLORIDA SPECIAL)

ACL
(Lot: 3090)

MYRTLE BEACH

PASS-A-GRILLE BEACH

PONTE VEDRA BEACH

SEA ISLAND BEACH

VIRGINIA BEACH

WRIGHTSVILLE BEACH

FEC
(Lot: 3095)

MAGNOLIA

OLEANDER

RF&P
(Lot: 3093)

COLONIAL BEACH

Between February and May 1950 Pullman Standard delivered thirteen 36-eat dining cars for ACL service to the ACL, FEC, and RF&P. All three roads dining cars were named and did not carry numbers. These cars were assigned to the winter only all-Pullman FLORIDA SPECIAL and such other fine ACL trains as the MIAMIAN, VACATIONER, and others.

36-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard February – May 1950 (Built for and assigned to various ACL trains in a general pool)

ACL

ATLANTA

BIRMINGHAM

CORDELE

FITZGERALD

GREENVILLE

LA GRANGE

MOULTRIE

PLANT CITY

TALLEDEGA

TARBORO

FEC

FORT DRUM

FORT RIBAULT

RF&P

HENRICO

Besides these lightweight cars the ACL rebuilt and streamlined a number of heavyweight 36-seat and 48-seat dining cars at their Emerson shops in Rocky Mount, N.C. Those modernized and streamlined 36-seat dining cars were named BRADENTON (48), GAINESVILLE (48), HARTSVILLE (36), KINSTON (36), NEW BERN (36), ORANGEBURG (36), TROY (48) and VALDOSTA (36). All of these cars were retired from ACL service by 1963. The work performed on these cars was outstanding and were difficult to tell from factory lightweight streamlined cars.
In December 1950 the ACL received five twin unit Kitchen-Dining room sets from the C&O who after having the cars built for them could not find a use for them and sold them to the ACL. Two of the sets were 16-crew dormitory Kitchen cars C&O numbers 1954 SWAN KITCHEN and 1955 POSTLEWHWAIT’S KITCHEN were renumbered ACL 125 and 126 respectively. The 64-seat dining room cars sold to the ACL at the same time for these kitchen units were C&O 1977 SWAN TAVERN and 1978 POSTLETHWAIT’S TAVERN; these were named PORT TAMPA and WINTER PARK by ACL.
The other three units that featured kitchens were built for the C&O as 14-seat Lunch Counter Kitchen Units numbers 1941,1940, and 1942 for the stillborn CHESSIE. These cars were built by Budd and delivered in August 1948. The C&O remodeled the cars to 18-crew dormitory –Kitchen units renumbering them 127-129 respectively.
The Dining room cars these were attached to were Budd built as well and were also built for the stillborn CHESSIE. These cars only seated 54-seats and were the former C&O 1970-1972. The ACL named these cars WINTER HAVEN, ST. PETERSBURG and FORT MYERS respectively. Since the ACL already had a 48-seat dining car carrying the name ST. PETERSBURG they renamed the 48-seat Dining car ORLANDO in December 1950.
Pullman Standard delivered the body shell only for a lightweight streamlined 36-seat dining car to the ACL in 1957. For the next two years this blank car body sat outside the Emerson shops in Rocky Mount. Finally in December 1959 the car was pulled into the shops and emerged as the ACL’s newest dining car NAPLES at that time.
All six BEACH series 6-Double Bedroom Buffet 25-seat lounge cars survived to the SCL merger.
One of the 48-seat Budd built dining cars PHILADELPHIA was wrecked and destroyed in an accident June 29,1957.
The ACL also lost one of their 36-seat dining cars CORDELE in 1957. The car shell purchased in 1957 that became the NAPLES in December 1959 was the replacement car for CORDELE. All other 48-seat and 36 seat dining cars became Seaboard Coast line property in the 1967 merger. For further details of these cars see the SCL chapter.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    January 2006
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Posted by LoveDomes on Friday, June 9, 2006 1:21 PM
G'day!

Thoroughly enjoyable thread with some great, continuing input from 20 Fingers Al and our most recent contributor, Art - appreciate the efforts! [tup]

I'm still a long way from having the time to put together anything worthy of your time, so let's just leave it at that. Good to see things are still up 'n running and undoubtedly Cap'n Tom will be most pleased to see that the thread is still active upon his return!

I'll be heading over to the bar for my afternoon visit . . . .

Until the next time! [tup]

Lars
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, June 9, 2006 9:07 PM
Hi Gents!

Couldn't let this evening pass by without checking in on "my other Thread!"

THANX Al 'n Art for keeping things running in my absence. Much appreciated! [tup] [tup] [tup]

Good to see the return of Lars - perhaps we'll get things back to a semblance of normalcy here at over at the bar, eh [?] [swg]

Don't let the JOs get you down, Lars. First off, they don't pay attention to the written word - nor do they care about communicating as individuals. These guys apparently didn't have toys when they were kids and get their "jollies" by hiding behind their anonymity here in cyber space. So, let's simply continue our "policy" of not giving them the light of day . . . . they aren't worth the powder it would take to blow 'em to Kingdom Come! [swg]

Here's a teaser of my recently concluded trip to the 49th state:

Alaska Railroad (ARR) in Anchorage


Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, June 10, 2006 8:44 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #30

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Illinois Central (IC)



Headquarters: Chicago, IL

Mileage:

1950: 4,779
1995: 2,732 (including rights)

Locomotives in 1963

Diesels: 629

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 49,226
Passenger cars: 857

Principal routes of the era:

Chicago-New Orleans via Mattoon & Carbondale, IL, & Grenada, MS
Memphis-New Orleans via Vicksburg, MS & Baton Rouge, LA
Memphis-Jackson, MS via Greenwood, MS
Fulton, KY-Birmingham, AL
Freeport-Centralia, IL via Clinton & Vandalia
Chicago-Omaha, NE
Tara (Fort Dodge)-Sioux City, IA
Cherokee, IA-Sioux Falls, SD
Manchester-Cedar Rapids, IA
Waterloo, IA-Albert Lea, MN
Centralia, IL-Madison, WI
Gilman, IL-St. Louis
St. Louis-Du Quoin, IL
Edgewood, IL-Fulton, KY
Fulton-Louisville, KY via Paducah
Effingham, IL-Indianapolis, IN
Mattoon-Peoria, IL via Decatur
Jackson-Gulfport, MS
Meridian, MS-Shreveport, LA

Passenger trains of note:

Chickasaw (Memphis-St. Louis & Chicago)
City of Miami (Chicago & St. Louis-Miami & St. Petersburg, FL; joint with CG, ACL and FEC)
City of New Orleans (Chicago & St. Louis & Louisville-New Orleans)
Daylight (Chicago-St. Louis
Delta Express (Memphis-Vicksburg, MS)
Green Diamond (Chicago-St. Louis)
Hawkeye (Chicago-Sioux City
Iowan (Chicago-Sioux City)
Irvin S. Cobb (Louisville-New Orleans)
Kentucky Cardinal (Louisville-Memphis)
Land O’ Corn (Chicago-Waterloo, IA)
Louisiane (Chicago & St. Louis-New Orleans)
Magnolia Star (Chicago-New Orleans)
Mid-American (Chicago-Memphis)
Night Diamond (Chicago-St. Louis)
Panama Limited (Chicago & St. Louis-New Orleans)
Planter (Louisville-Memphis)
Seminole (Chicago-Jacksonville, FLA via Birmingham & Columbus, GA)
Southwestern Limited & Northeastern Limited (Meridian-Shreveport)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:09 PM
G'day!

No takers thus far [?]

Check this out . . . .

Illinois Central (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)



Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Saturday, June 10, 2006 3:05 PM
Hiya Cap'n Tom

Here's a steamer to enjoy! [tup]

IC 2-8-4 #8049 (from: www.yesteryeardepot.com)
Photo: Paul Eilenburger




Until the next time!


Lars
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, June 10, 2006 4:30 PM
G'day!

Good to see ya, Lars! [tup]

One more from me . . . .


Illinois Central (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)


Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:37 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #31

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)



Headquarters: Richmond, VA

Mileage in 1950:

5,343 (including ferries)

Locomotives in 1963:

Steam: 3 (fireless “cookers”)
Diesel: 1,053

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 92,992
Passenger cars: 324

Principal (not all) routes in 1950:

Chicago-Cincinnati, OH-Ashland, KY-Staunton, VA-Newport News, VA
Gordonsville, VA-Washington, DC
Clifton Forge-Richmond VA
Ashland-Louisville, KY
Limeville (Ashland)-Columbus, OH-Toledo, OH
Columbus-Pomeroy, OH
Catlettsburg (Ashland)-Elkhorn City, KY
Ronceverte-Durbin & Bartow, WV
Chicago-Grand Rapids, MI-Detroit, MI-St. Thomas, ON-Buffalo & Niagra Falls, NY
Grand Rapids-Petoskey & Bay View, MI
Erieau, ON-Ludington, MI
Ludington-Milwaukee & Manitowoc & Kewaunee, WI (ferry routes to each from Ludington)
Toledo-Bay City, MI
Port Huron-Bay City-Elmdale, MI
Holland-Muskegon-Hart, MI

Passenger trains of note:

George Washington (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Louisville)
F.F.V. (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Louisville)
Sportsman (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Detroit)
Pere Marquettes (Detroit-Grand Rapids; Chicago-Grand Rapids & Muskegon; Detroit-Saginaw, MI)
Resort Special (Chicago-Petoskey; later, Washington-White Sulphur Springs, WV)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Sunday, June 11, 2006 12:26 PM
Hiya Cap'n Tom

A departure from the "theme" over here - just thought this would bring a smile to your face!!!


For Tom’s Alaska Trip!!



For Tom’s Alaska Trip!! A chart map!



For Tom’s Alaska Trip!! The Anchorage Depot!



For Tom’s Alaska Trip!! The Denali Depot!


For Tom’s Alaska Trip!! The Fairbanks Depot!



All pix posted with the “blanket permission” from Alaska Railroad!

Check out the remainder over at the bar for Sunday Photo Posting Day!!


Until the next time! [tup]

Lars
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:31 PM
G'day!

Thanx for the Alaska spread!! [tup] Much appreciated, Lars!

Now, let's see if I can come up with something for the "theme" since 20 Fingers appears to have taken the weekend off . . .

C&O freight foto credit: unknown


C&O passenger foto credit: unknown


Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, June 11, 2006 5:12 PM
CHESAPEAKE
&
OHIO
(C&O)
Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The C&O northern lines better known at the time as the Pere Marquette introduced a pair of seven-car coach streamliners August 10, 1946 between Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan. The two train sets made three round trips between them. The first two cars following the E7A diesel unit the baggage 30’railway post office car and baggage car were simply moved to the other end of the five cars at terminals only the diesel was turned. The five passenger carrying cars were trainlined in the following manner.

56-seat coach observation blunt end
54-seat coach with smoking lounge
44-seat dining car
54-seat coach with smoking lounge
56-seat coach observation blunt end

The new trains were delivered painted in the University of Michigan colors of Venetian yellow and Enchantment blue. These basic colors would be accepted by C&O as the color for all their streamliners with the yellow becoming a darker shade called Federal yellow on subsequent cars. Only those cars built for the CHESSIE would not receive the new C&O paint scheme.
The new Michigan trains were named the PERE MARQUETTES when they entered service and soon earned a reputation for reliability. The cars we are concerned with in this book are car numbers 10 and 11. These two cars featured a center kitchen with a passageway down one side. The dining areas were on either side of the kitchen pantry area and seated 22 at table seating for two and four. There were three tables for two and four tables for four. The cars served a dual purpose acting as lounge space during non-meal hours. The PERE MARQUETTES were one of the few trains in the U.S. to have waitresses instead of waiters and a no-tipping policy. Number 10 was retired in 1968 and sold privately. Car number 11 was converted in 1959 to a cafeteria car without change of number and retired in 1969. In 1970 the car was sold to a private owner.

44-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard July 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)

10, 11

The next trains to be discussed were the CHESSIES the trains that never were. The C&O received three Budd built consists in August 1948 that would have been among the finest day trains in the land if not the finest. The CHESSIES were built to operate between Washington, D.C. and Cincinnati with a connecting train between Newport News and Charlottesville. The three consists were to be pulled by the largest coal fired turbine locomotives ever built for passenger service. The C&O realized before the train entered service that they would never attract enough ridership to pay their way.
Each CHESSIE consist would have had five feature cars. These cars were 1875 –1877, 1900 –1902, 1920 – 1922, 1940 – 1942 and 1970 – 1972.
We will look at the cars in numerical order this is definitely not the way they would have been trainlined.
The 1875 – 1877 were built to be the last cars in the CHESSIES They featured a 20-seat coach section forward of the dome on the main level The Dome a lower profile dome built for eastern clearances seated the standard 24 found in all Budd short domes. To the rear of the dome in the rounded observation end on the cars main level was a lounge seating 16 with unusual seating arrangement having all facing aft at angles in pairs a single and one group of three. Beneath the dome was a pair of restrooms and a newsstand that would have sold newspapers, cigarettes, candies, magazines and souvenirs. Ahead of the coach seating was a silent screen room that showed headlines for the coach passengers of these cars. These cars would have operated Newport News to Cincinnati. After operating in PERE MARQUETTE service for a short period of time the three cars were sold to the D&RGW September 20, 1949. Before repainting and delivery to their new owner the cars were fitted with an adaptor at their rounded end complete with diaphragm for mid-train operation. See D&RGW for disposition and further history of these cars.

24-SEAT DOME 20-SEAT COACH 16-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS with Newsstand beneath dome Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1875 – 1877

Cars 1900 – 1902 were 6-seat lunch counter 8-seat dinette 25-seat tavern lounge 10-seat lounge cars. Car number 1900 was rebuilt to C&O business car 19 in 1953. One year later in 1954 the car was sold to the NYC as their business car 28. The NYC in turn sold the car privately in 1959 and named ADIOS II. Cars 1901 and 1902 were sold to the General Roca Railway of Argentina in 1951.

6-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 8-SEAT DINETTE 25-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE 10-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1900 – 1902

Car numbers 1920 – 1922 were 5-seat lunch counter 16-seat dining 18-seat lounge 6-seat lounge observations. These cars were blunt end observations and would have operated between Washington and Cincinnati. All three cars were remodeled in 1952 each differently. Car 1920 after rebuilding featured a 4-seat lunch counter 38-seat dining 6-seat lounge observation. Car 1920 was transferred to Amtrak ownership in 1971. Car 1921 was remodeled to 5-seat lunch counter 36-seat dining and 4-seat lounge observation. Car 1921 was transferred to Amtrak ownership in 1971. Car number 1922 was remodeled to a 5-seat lunch counter 32-seat dining 10-seat lounge observation. In 1971 car 1922 was transferred to Amtrak ownership.

5-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 16-SEAT DINING 18-SEAT LOUNGE 6-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1920 – 1922

Cars 1940 – 1942 were part of two unit-dining sets with each coupled to car numbers 1970 – 1972 respectively. Cars 1940 – 1942 featured a 6-crew dayroom 9-seat dinette 4-seat lunch counter and a large kitchen pantry. Since these cars were built during the Jim Crow era of racial segregation they served black passengers only. The trailing 1970-1972-class dining room – theater cars were for white passengers only. Cars 1970 – 1972 were 52-seat dining room-theater cars. Seating was arranged at tables for two and four and they provided no kitchen facilities of any kind being totally dependant on the kitchens in 1940 – 1942 for food service. All three sets of cars were sold to the ACL in November 1950 for further service see ACL chapter for further history of these cars.

6-CREW LOUNGE 9-SEAT DINETTE 4-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER KITCHEN UNITS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1940 – 1942

52-SEAT DINING – THEATER UNITS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1970 – 1972

In 1950 the C&O received a large number of cars from Pullman Standard that were to say the least state of the art. The cars they received were part of a larger order parts of which were sold to other railroads with delivery straight from Pullman Standard. Still other parts of this huge order were canceled altogether. The C&O realized with their passenger services not all of the cars would be necessary to operate the trains they had.
The C&O purchased eight twin-unit dining car sets that were actually completed and delivered but none ever entered C&O service instead four were sold to the NYC, two were sold to the ACL and the remaining two were sold to the IC. These twin-unit dining sets as built consisted of a 16-crew dormitory – kitchen unit and a 52-seat dining room 12-seat cocktail lounge theater unit.

16-CREW DORMITORY KITCHEN CARS – 52-SEAT DINING 12-SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE THEATER CARS Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for C&O service but sold to other railroads)

1950 GADSBY’S KITCHEN
1973 GADSBY’S TAVERN
(Sold to Illinois Central November 1950)

1951 RALEIGH KITCHEN
1974 RALEIGH TAVERN
(Sold to Illinois Central November 1950)

1952 MICHIE’S KITCHEN
1975 MICHIE’S TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1953 HANOVER KITCHEN
1976 HANOVER TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1954 SWAN KITCHEN
1977 SWAN TAVERN
(Sold to Atlantic Coast Line December 1950)

1955 POSTLETHWAIT’S KITCHEN
1978 POSTLETHWAIT’S TAVERN
(Sold to Atlantic Coast Line December 1950)

1956 CALDWELL’S KITCHEN
1979 CALDWELL’S TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1957 BOTSFORD KITCHEN
1980 BOTSFORD TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

No single unit lightweight streamlined dining cars were delivered for C&O service from this 1950 Pullman Standard order. Two were built but they were sold directly to the D&RGW. See the D&RGW for further details of these cars.
Pullman Standard built four 8-seat lunch counter buffet 38-seat lounge cars as part of the order for C&O but three were delivered directly to the D&RGW, only one was destined for C&O service 1903 CHESSIE CLUB assigned to C&O Northern lines for PERE MARQUETTE service. This car was transferred to Amtrak service in 1971.

8-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER BUFFET 38-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTE)

1903 CHESSIE CLUB

As part of the Pullman Standard order were eight 5-double bedroom buffet 26-seat lounge observations. Only four would enter C&O service and the other four were sold to the B&O who assigned their four to the AMBASSADOR and CAPITOL LIMITED. The C&O assigned three of the cars to the GEORGE WASHINGTON and the remaining car 2504 NEW RIVER CLUB was rebuilt to C&O Business car 29. The C&O rebuilt all three remaining cars 2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB, 2503 TIDEWATER CLUB and 2506 BLUEGRASS CLUB in 1962 to 6-crew dormitory Kitchen-pantry 38-seat dining observations. Three of the bedrooms were designated crew dormitory space and the remaining two along with the buffet were rebuilt to Kitchen pantry and the lounge seating was removed and replaced by seven tables for four. All three were retired and sold to Amtrak in 1971. Business car CHESSIE 29 sold privately in 1971. These cars were renumbered and retained their names as before see below.

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 26-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to C&O passenger trains)

2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1923 BLUE RIDGE CLUB

2501 SHENANDOAH CLUB sold to B&O February 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7502 DANA assigned to AMBASSADOR

2502 TIDEWATER CLUB sold to B&O March 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7500 NAPPANEE assigned to CAPITOL LIMITED

2503 ALLEGHENNY CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1925 ALLEGHENNY CLUB

2504 NEW RIVER CLUB rebuilt 1951 to C&O Business car CHESSIE 29

2505 OHIO RIVER CLUB sold to B&O February 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7503 METCALF

2506 BLUE GRASS CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1924 BLUE GRASS CLUB

2507 WOLVERINE CLUB sold to B&O March 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7501 WAWASEE assigned to CAPITOL LIMITED

The C&O converted two of their 1950 built coaches 1610 and 1611 to Coach diners in 1956. Where the one large bathroom in these cars was located at the end opposite the boarding vestibule, it was rebuilt to a pair of bathrooms the 26-seat coach seating at this end remained and to the rear of the center offset a 22-seat dining room was installed with 5-tables for 4 and one corner table for 2. Where the large bathroom at the boarding vestibule end was located this was rebuilt to a kitchen. Both 1610 and 1611 were retired in 1971 and sold to Amtrak.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Monday, June 12, 2006 9:52 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #32

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

New York, Chicago & St. Louis – Nickel Plate Road (NKP)



Headquarters: Cleveland, OH

Mileage in 1950 2,192

Locomotives in 1950:

Steam: 392
Diesel: 117

Rolling stock in 1950:

Freight cars: 29,229
Passenger cars: 117

Principal routes (not all) in 1953 (after W&LE merger):

Chicago-Buffalo, NY via Fostoria & Lorain, OH
Toledo, OH-East St. Louis, IL
Toledo-Wheeling, WV & Steubenville, OH
Cleveland-Zanesville, OH
Sandusky, OH-East Peoria, IL via Lima, OH
Indianapolis-Michigan City, IN
Fort Wayne-Connersville & Rushville, IN
Norwalk-Huron, OH
Cleveland-Wellington, OH

Passenger trains of note: (not all

Blue Arrow (Cleveland-St. Louis)
Blue Dart (St. Louis-Cleveland)
City of Chicago (Buffalo-Chicago)
City of Cleveland (Chicago-Buffalo)
Commercial Traveler (Toledo-St. Louis)
New Yorker (Chicago-Buffalo)
Nickel Plate Limited (Chicago-Buffalo)
Westerner (Buffalo-Chicago)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Monday, June 12, 2006 10:54 AM
G'day Cap'n Tom

Here's a little something I found while browsing the Ether this morning . . . .

Nickel Plate Magazine - 1957 (fair use)



Until the next time!


Lars

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