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Cincinnati Union Terminal Departures / Arrivals

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 6:26 PM

coalminer3
Have really enjoyed reading all of these posts. I recall Cincinnati very well; a magnificent building which I was fortunate to see before the murals got moved and the structure was "modified."   

Made more than a few trips to and from Cincinnati on the L&N's "Pan American." It provided a nice connection to the N&W's "Pocahonas" whiixh carried a 10/6 sleeper which, correct my memory here, please, if I am wrong, whiich one could get pace for coach fare plus $10.00 which included a dining car meal as well. The "Pocahontas" carried a dome car which provided an interesting perspective of activities in the coalfields of southern WV whoch were a lot busier then they they are now.  Change at Roanoke ato ride what was left of the Southern's "Birmingham Special" from there to DC. I also recall trips from New York on the "Spirit of St. Louis/Cincinnati Limited" in the days of PC. This provided a connection to the Pan to get back to Nashville. 

work safe.

The trip on the Pocahontas would have been subsequent to the 1964 N&W's buying of the Wabash, Nickel Plate as only the Wabash owned dome cars from their operation of The Blue Bird and The City of St.Louis.

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Thursday, June 17, 2021 2:24 PM

coalminer3

Have really enjoyed reading all of these posts. I recall Cincinnati very well; a magnificent building which I was fortunate to see before the murals got moved and the structure was "modified."   

Made more than a few trips to and from Cincinnati on the L&N's "Pan American." It provided a nice connection to the N&W's "Pocahonas" whiixh carried a 10/6 sleeper which, correct my memory here, please, if I am wrong, whiich one could get pace for coach fare plus $10.00 which included a dining car meal as well. The "Pocahontas" carried a dome car which provided an interesting perspective of activities in the coalfields of southern WV whoch were a lot busier then they they are now.  Change at Roanoke ato ride what was left of the Southern's "Birmingham Special" from there to DC. I also recall trips from New York on the "Spirit of St. Louis/Cincinnati Limited" in the days of PC. This provided a connection to the Pan to get back to Nashville. 

work safe.

 

 

 

Those sound like excellent memories Coalminer. Brings the idea to life more than digging in the old timetables! I especially like the idea of the views of the mining industry from a dome car.

Thanks for that.

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Thursday, June 17, 2021 2:48 PM

Re the trucks:

I had a look through the ACF archive but I couldn't find anything about the Royal Blue specifically, having read the following:

"In the 1935 the PRR fully completed its electrification and that same year saw the B&O purchase two streamlined trainsets from the American Car & Foundry via a loan from the U.S. Reconstruction Finance Corporation"

There are many many cars from that era and likewise hi-def pictures of their trucks and I am thinking most likely those cars wouldn't have bespoke trucks so you may well find a match from the picture in there.

Here's the link to the archive:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/albums/72157649155982802

 

I am quite sure you fellas will have seen this before, but just in case there is some footage of the 1935 Royal Blue pulled by the Lord Baltimore baltic. Cor-ten set or the aluminiun IDK but if someone can point out the difference I would be interested.

Go to circa 2:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp3CtLzDrao

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:45 PM

TheFlyingScotsman
,...there is some footage of the 1935 Royal Blue pulled by the Lord Baltimore Baltic.

Not a Baltic, which has a pin-guided trailing truck (as on the French originals)... or is on the Milwaukee Road, by their choice of name (remember, MILW designed a full high-speed 4-6-4 before Kiefer; they just didn't have the money to build it, in part thanks to the Pacific Coast Extension costs, before NYC did).  All four of the B&O 4-6-4s were Hudsons, with delta-style trailing trucks. 

Cor-Ten set or the aluminum [note, American so spelled thus] IDK but if someone can point out the difference...

According to John White of the Smithsonian, in The American Passenger Car, the Cor-Ten set was used on the Royal Blue (with the Lord and Lady Baltimore high-speed steam locomotives) and the aluminum set went to the Alton with EMD boxcab power as the Abraham Lincoln.

According to White there is very little difference externally between the aluminum and copper-bearing steel construction, but there is a pronounced difference in weight.

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Thursday, June 17, 2021 5:59 PM

I'm afraid we will need to agree to disagree on this one. As far as I am concerned any 4-6-4 is a baltic. I understand that there are sub-sets to be considered but generically the name applied to a particular wheel arrangement takes it's genesis from the first user. In this case it was first known as a baltic from the French. The first 4-6-4 wheel arrangement as I understand it in the US was on the NYC who then named it Hudson. To me that doesn't change the generic term.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, June 18, 2021 2:04 AM

.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, June 18, 2021 3:16 AM

Thank you everyone for the great effort. I thought it was Pullman who built the lightweight train set for B&O in 1935, but it was ACF instead. Those cars look great when new but they really remind me of commuter cars because of their size. 

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Wednesday, September 8, 2021 2:50 PM

Overmod

 advise you correct the error of your ways even if you choose not to follow everyone else's convention.  There is no such thing as a generic noun for a type name, and never has been; even generic copouts like Ten-Wheeler are properly capitalized...

Dear oh dear. I arrive back from Kuala Lumpur after few weeks contentious work looking forward to relaxing and catching up on these forums and this is the welcoming sight that greets me.

Let's have a recap here. We were all breezily discussing CUT in the good old days and of course this had diverged and converged a few times – excellent – and a member noted that he hadn’t seen a decent picture of the bogies used on the Royal Blue so I added a link and used the word baltic, all lower case, hoping I may be helping the fellow out. This word seemed to provoke quite an abnormal reaction and I disagreed with this. I still do. Thought no more of it and went off to work in the Far East.

Obviously not agreeing was deemed out of bounds as I am now being treated to grammar lessons on a railroad forum, not an English language one, but again I disagree with the analysis. The use of the word baltic referred to the whole and not the specific and is a common noun and is therefore not capitalised.

What has not been contemplated here though is the very real possibility that I simply didn’t hold down the shift key. I am guilty of that. Most of us are at times. Had that been what had happened would it seem reasonable to give such sneering advice? No. That is never acceptable, we are meant to be interacting here as peers.

One final thing. I won’t be reading this thread again, so………..

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, September 8, 2021 4:18 PM

It's not June any more, you're still mistaken, we've all long since moved on.  But since this is your thread I removed the post in question.

Friends tell friends if they think they're wrong.  Friends also know there's no sin if they ignore what they get told.

We certainly need to get back to discussing Cincinnati if the thread continues.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, September 8, 2021 6:25 PM

Jones1945
Thank you everyone for the great effort. I thought it was Pullman who built the lightweight train set for B&O in 1935, but it was ACF instead. Those cars look great when new but they really remind me of commuter cars because of their size. 

My understanding was the Pullman built one trainset and ACF built the other trainset.  They were near identical as possible despite the differences in main construction materials.

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