Todays "Photo O' The Day"

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Posted by pennytrains on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 6:35 PM

Fr.Al

Is Higbee's still around? I'm out of Cleveland thirty years now. Twenty-seven years in Michigan and the last three in Western Pennsylvania,

 

It was sold (1987) as part of a deal that eventually rebranded it as Dillard's.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 8:32 PM

pennytrains

I have an M-1 carbine BB gun.  Wink

 

Better than no M-1 carbine at all!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, November 11, 2020 11:28 AM

Aw jeez, I forgot to check yesterdays photo, shame on me!  This should make up for it:

"Baldwin Shark, doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo!  Baldwin Shark, doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo!"

And today, those Southern units are so clean you could eat off 'em!  Maybe sausage, biscuits, and white gravy?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, November 12, 2020 2:16 PM

Yesterday's and today's photos are pretty good.  The "Dakota 400" at Devil's Lake could almost be a publicity photo.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, November 12, 2020 5:39 PM

The Dakota 400 was the only 400 to carry a sleeping car!  It's amazing to look back at the optimism even marginal railroads had for passenger trains in the 1940s.  Also note the E8's winterization hatches.

I'm losing some access to the forum as my employer, a major medical center, has taken the step of blocking personal e-mail.  One of our neighbor medical systems was recently the victim of a ransomware attack which used an employee's e-mail as the vector.  Apparently the forum counts as personal e-mail...

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, November 12, 2020 7:05 PM

rcdrye
Apparently the forum counts as personal e-mail...

Could be worse, when I retired I lost the company lap-top and had to buy my own, THEN start all over again on the Forums since I lost my work e-mail too.

Still, I can't blame your employer for being too careful, especially since you work as a medical center.  Lots of crazy and nasty stuff floating around out there generated by people with no sense of responsibility or concience.  I shudder to think what a ransomware attack could do to a hospital.

On a happier note, that Dakota 400 shot's wonderful!  What a pity it wasn't shot in color.  And can you imagine a train trip through that scenery!

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 16, 2020 8:00 AM

Maybe it was only Kalmbach's sites as I seem to be back.

The cars in today's "Photo of the Day" aren't refrigerator cars at all, but rather ventilated boxcars (read the lettering on the car behind the one being loaded), a type of car that has completely disappeared.  For things like carrots shipped north in the winter, the ice is mainly to keep them moist and fresh until the car gets into a more wintry area.  These cars were far more common in the south than the north, but were found anywhere that produce shipments originated.

The photo also illustrated the now obsolete practice of loading multiple tracks from one door using bridge plates.  This required careful spotting by the switching crews.  There were a couple of New England paper mills that loaded cars that way into the 1980s at least.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, November 16, 2020 8:31 AM

The New Haven's promotional film "A Great Railroad At Work," one of the best, if not THE best vintage promo films ever done, has a segment on reefer cars and produce shipping, some of what rcdrye mentions can be seen.  The movie's a real time capsule!  And here it is, about 40 minutes long. The reefer segment's toward the end of the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUcUHRKeLI  

As an aside, at a train show yesterday I picked up a copy of "Trains" from June of 1974 with Bill Withuhn's classic article "Did We Scrap Steam Too Soon?"  Boy, am I going to have fun reading that!  

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 16, 2020 12:02 PM

Flintlock76
yesterday I picked up a copy of "Trains" from June of 1974 with Bill Withuhn's classic article "Did We Scrap Steam Too Soon?"

Be sure to come back here and explain how you'd construct the frame of a practical 6000hp Withuhn conjugated duplex.  Be sure to put rough dimensions in.  You can refer to the ACE3000 patent for a guide, but it ain't gonna help ya much.

PM Erik and have him explain about the second-order imbalances in the Withuhn arrangement as drawn, too.  He'll likely make it more comprehensible.  I have a vague idea you could put additional gearing in a Langer balancer to deal with this.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, November 16, 2020 9:46 PM

Overmod
Be sure to come back here and explain how you'd construct the frame of a practical 6000hp Withuhn conjugated duplex.

Who, ME?

Remember Oddball from "Kelly's Heroes?"

"Naw, I don't fix or build 'em man, I just drive 'em!"

I don't even drive 'em.  Build 'em?  That's YOUR job Mod-man!  Wink

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, November 16, 2020 10:41 PM

If you two build it, I'll run it!

And if you play nice I might even let you fire for a while!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:48 AM

The Wabash mogul still in use in 1953 is a good example of many lightweight or at least light-footed steam locomotives that survived well into the 1950s just because of bridge or rail loading restrictions.  The diesel catalogs of the day reflect this need as well, with all of the major builders offering six-axle power, many with A1A trucks, just for light rail branches.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:24 AM

Flintlock76
Build 'em?  That's YOUR job Mod-man!

This is in the context of reading "Did We Scrap Steam Too Soon" -- and MY job is to teach as you read, and guide you over some of the 'peculiarities' in '70s and '80s practice.

The 'frame' question isn't a pop quiz: it's to get you thinking about the practical side of modern steam design as those articles and pictorials in the '70s described.  (If you have the Complete Collection or access to late-'60s issues, look up the article on the Giesl-Gieslingen ejector, which was so glowingly billed that I took it as gospel for many years...)

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:40 PM

Got it!

Thought about how to build a frame.  How about another European concept, a bar and/or plate frame?  There'd be plenty of room then!

Anyway, love todays Wabash Mogul, "neat as a watch chain" as the old saying goes.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:02 PM

Flintlock76
How about another European concept, a bar and/or plate frame?  There'd be plenty of room then!

The bar frame was America's answer to the European plate frame + stretchers/horn castings.  You will note in the ACE3000 patent that a sort of bar frame is penciled in -- just not one that would even begin to take 3000hp worth of thrust over time.

The earliest 'cast' frames were only sideframes cast in one piece, with conventional stretchers and other fabrication.  Note the substantial difference between this and a true cast engine bed.

In my opinion the 'correct' construction would involve tunnel cranks for the mains (like the main bearings in the Maybach engines in the Krauss-Maffei locomotives) and a frame welded from hydroformed plate and lost-foam castings (using a combination of preheat and laser keyhole welding)  While the technology exists to make and stress-relieve GSC-style cast engine beds, it is no longer even remotely cost-effective for new builds -- especially if, as apparently was somewhat common at Granite City, several attempts were needed to get a good overall casting... Whistling

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:26 AM

Today's "Photo of the Day" is most interesting.  Aside from the mail, it also reminds us that before FedEx and UPS there was REA.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:35 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Aside from the mail, it also reminds us that before FedEx and UPS there was REA.

Which went everywhere from everywhere, essentially free if you had the time, between any two stations that had mandatory common-carrier passenger rail service.

I still marvel that a company with that reach and name recognition could disappear so absolutely in so short a time.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 4:39 PM

Overmod
I still marvel that a company with that reach and name recognition could disappear so absolutely in so short a time.

One of the mags, either "Classic Trains" or "Trains" had an article about REA not too long ago, last year maybe?  Anyway, long story short, times changed drastically and REA just couldn't keep up with them.    

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Posted by pennytrains on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:52 PM

It was CT.  I don't get T, so...Smile

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 9:36 PM

Thanks Becky!  I knew it was one or the other, just couldn't remember which.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:20 AM

Today's photo is great.  A wartime photo of Erie's FT's, I'm going to guess that the location is Marion OH, since they were well-suited to the rolling profile of that part of the railroad.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:43 AM

Flintlock76
Anyway, long story short, times changed drastically and REA just couldn't keep up with them.

Not couldn't, didn't.

REA had the local delivery-truck market sewn up; the amount of capitalization involved in a company like UPS competing with that was enormous.  All that REA would have required was a transfer from passenger-rail M&E to a freight-based model, perhaps involving large and small distribution centers ... the small centers perhaps being in the very many depots being made surplus by reduction in passenger and local profitability.  Even if they had to make a ttrraaffiicc-like transition to a long-distance truck infrastructure between rail staging points, they'd have been in no worse shape than the package-delivery 'competition'.

It's been pointed out that a ground version of Fred Smith's logistics model doesn't involve 'overnight' to a central hub; quite a few destination pairs in FedEx Ground are handled as the Post Office does with dedicated trucks in a lane.  All the way up to the failures in the '70s, perfectly good package service within three to five days could be provided by cross-dock long-distance trucking (or intermodal, had that been standardized better then) and quite a few of the innovations charted for rail intermodal with TOFC might have worked nicely for competitive advantage or to access regions with indifferent road access... a use for those otherwise-silly one- and two-track ramps built in all sorts of out-of-the-way places for business that never came.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:04 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
A wartime photo of Erie's FTs...

I'd think that an Erie fan would be quickly able to flag the location; those sand towers appear diesel-specific, and appear to be spaced to allow simultaneous 'sanding' of all sixteen boxes in the 5400hp "locomotive" at a time.  Note the standpipes for fueling all the units at the same time.  This is very much a diesel-specific facility.  

For such a facility to be built, we might expect a location where all the sand in the admittedly somewhat small FT arrangement would be used GETTING to it, and then all the sand loaded would be used going FROM there to ... wherever such intensive use of sand would no longer be needed.  As well as a logical refueling point for an early EMD cab-unit consist -- range of the FTs was likely less than subsequent orders.  The sawtooth profile of the Erie west of New York State would certainly fit both these situations...

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:41 AM

Marion Ohio is an obvious possibility.  Almost all Erie trains were serviced there.  The other key city was Hornell NY.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:04 PM

It would depend on when the picture was taken.  Possibly early in the Erie's road diesel era, that's the original FT paint scheme.  The FT's showed up in 1944 and ran on points east from Marion OH to Meadville PA, then Salamanca NY, and would continue to do so until the ALCO FA's arrived in 1947.  Then it was ALCO's on the west end, EMD's on the east end. Later on both makes could be found anywhere on the system. 

So, it could be Marion, it could be Hornell.  Maybe.  It's doesn't matter, it's a nice shot!

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:18 PM

My vote is for Marion.  If it was Hornell, I think you would see hills in the background.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, November 20, 2020 8:37 AM

And today's shot shows why it's a good idea to keep a few steamers around "just in case!"  Flood waters can't blow up traction motors if there aren't any there to begin with.

And if the water's as high as the firebox you probably shouldn't be running anyway.  

"How high's the water Mama?"  "Five feet high and risin'..."

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:21 AM

I remember first seeing that picture in the July 1965 issue of TRAINS, the first one that I ever purchased.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, November 23, 2020 9:19 AM

And today, a doomed "Doodlebug."

While not having the panache and presense of a steamer or a road diesel "Doodlebugs" certainly had a quirky charm all their own.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, November 23, 2020 10:25 AM

It should be remembered that motorcars were among the first steps leading to the demise of steam locomotives.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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