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Classic trains photos from the Denver Public Library

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Posted by M636C on Monday, February 8, 2021 12:42 AM

Overmod

 

 
M636C
Remember that ATSF couldn't run the "Super Chief" with even a string of 3750 class changing at division points.

 

There is no 3750 class; 3750 was last of a class of 4-8-2s, a fine passenger engine in its day but hopelessly incapable of Super Chief sustained speed.  The 3751 class 'as built' with 73" drivers was not much better; even ATSF referred to them as 'Heavy Mountains' when new and that was their design philosophy.  On the other hand, it was NOT long after introduction of the Super Chief that ATSF realized the importance of rebuilding these (as they started to do) in 1938 into true high-speed locomotives, fully competent as protection power in the same sense the 3765 (and 3776) classes could be.

I really should have remembered the class change number.

I remember stumbling across 3751 in San Bernadino one day some time before it returned to service....

On the other hand, it seems the CB&Q Hudsons were fairly capable of running the (presumably lighter and articulated) Denver Zephyr, but the CB&Q diesels were only good for 3000HP compared to 3600 for Amos and Andy and the E1 double units.

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, February 8, 2021 2:14 PM

The Q's Hudsons are some of the most underrated steam locomotives.  Something truly eye-opening are the 'before and after' augment numbers for the S4b reported in the Timken ad in the '47 Cyc.

It should also be remembered that one of the engines achieved 112.5mph on test, which is pretty good anywhere.  To put that in perspective, that's about 10mph faster than the ATSF's 3460s, with taller drivers and more advanced construction, could manage, and right up there with the best ATSF 4-8-4s.

An interesting note is that the S4a class was supposed to be able to make Chicago-Denver, 1034 route miles, without recoaling.  This with 27 tons in the tender, which would appear to indicate that the NYC's much higher consumption for lower mileage (the best uncoaled-run figure I know being that for the C1a, with a Niagara boiler but lower water rate, requiring 64T in an extended pedestal tender to go 34-odd fewer miles with no engine change at Cleveland) was related to much higher acceleration and sustained speed.

Then there were the two oil-fired S4bs...

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, February 8, 2021 9:20 PM

Suspect they could do Denver to Chicago without adding fuel, but not Chicago to Denver.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, February 8, 2021 9:34 PM

Overmod

The Q's Hudsons are some of the most underrated steam locomotives.  Something truly eye-opening are the 'before and after' augment numbers for the S4b reported in the Timken ad in the '47 Cyc.

It should also be remembered that one of the engines achieved 112.5mph on test, which is pretty good anywhere.  To put that in perspective, that's about 10mph faster than the ATSF's 3460s, with taller drivers and more advanced construction, could manage, and right up there with the best ATSF 4-8-4s.

Interesting! The speed record of hitting 112.5mph was exactly what the MILW Atlantic No. 1 also achieved during a test run on May 15, 1935, pulling (only) 5 cars. I wonder how many cars the CB&Q Hudson were hauling during the test. I thought ATSF got the "best" Hudsons in terms of top speed, followed by MILW and NYCRR...

Close-up view of (CB&Q #4004) drivers and roller bearing side rods. Photographed: Denver, Colo., June 29, 1939.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/42355

Train #49, Empire Builder, locomotive "Aeolus." Photographed: St.  Paul, Minn., July 26, 1940.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/46104/rec/26

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, February 9, 2021 6:54 AM

There were two CB&Q streamlined Hudsons, 4000 and 4001. Both were named Aeolus.  4000 was a rebuild, 4001 was built by West Burlington Shops using a Baldwin boiler and frame.  Both were class S-4a.  Known as "Big Alice the Goon" after a character in the Popeye comic strip (at least I think it was Popeye).  They had a reputation of being easy to service, with reported turnaround times in Chicago of a couple of hours between arrival from Denver and departure for the Twin Cities.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, February 9, 2021 5:53 PM

CB&Q really cared about the image of their premium trains. Both Aeolus locomotives were built as backup locomotives for their streamlined diesel-hauled Zephyr passenger trains, but still, they had a full-width diaphragm on the back end of the streamlined tender. Many RRs didn't consider it a problem when their streamliners were powered by a non-streamlined engine/unit/power/locomotive.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, February 9, 2021 11:52 PM

BaltACD
Suspect they could do Denver to Chicago without adding fuel, but not Chicago to Denver.

I was thinking, when I read that, that the route from Chicago to Denver might be better typified as 1035 miles -- 1034 across and one straight up.  But I got the strong impression that the idea was to go either way without a fuel stop... 

I have no ideas how either the S4as or the two oil-fired S4bs were actually fueled (or not) on that route; it would be interesting to know either way.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 10:21 PM

More photos you might find interesting:

Night scene during record run, about 57 hours from Los Angeles to New York, 5 cars. Photographed: at Cheyenne, Wyo., October 23, 1934.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67624/rec/119

 

Train #17, Super Chief; first run; 6 cars, 75 MPH. Photographed:  east of La Junta, Colo., May 13, 1936.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/62310/rec/170

 

Train #17, Super Chief; first run with new stainless steel cars; 8 cars, 50 MPH. Photographed:  east of Trinidad, Colo., May 19, 1937.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/62311/rec/171

 

Denver Zephry, after record non-stop run from Chicago; 1017 miles in 12 hours 12 minutes, averaging 83 MPH; 8 cars, standing, night scene. Photographed: in Denver, Colo., October 23, 1936.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/62699/rec/183

 

Train #11, The Kansas Cityan; 12 cars. Photographed: west of Monica, Ill., June 23, 1946.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/55074/rec/240

 

Train #17, The Super Chief; 8 cars, 30 MPH.  Photographed: eastside Raton Pass, Wootton, Colo., May 19, 1937.

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/58610/rec/321

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