Fateful Trip , passengers of Destiny.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:06 PM

Interesting history behind that photograph.

It was taken by a young Jesuit seminarian named Father Frank Browne. Father Browne called it "The Titanic Special," which it certainly was, but it typically went by the name "The Boat Train."

Father Browne was an amateur photogapher who's uncle, the Bishop of Cloyne, had gotten him a First Class ticket for a three-day voyage on Titanic, knowing of his interest in ships and photography as well.  He would have needed permission of the Rector of the seminary, but there was no way the Rector, or his superior the Provincial, was going to say no to the Bishop!  

Father Browne's voyage took him from Southampton, to Cherbourg, and then to Queenstown, now Cobh in Ireland. On the trip Father Browne met an American millionaire couple who were quite taken with him, and offered to pay for a round-trip ticket to New York, they enjoyed his company so much.  He sent a wireless message to the Provincial asking permission, and by the time he got to Queenstown he had his reply, in five words:

GET OFF THAT SHIP - PROVINCIAL

That was the end of that!

Father Browne wouldn't realise how lucky he was until he was back at the seminary in Dublin and got the word of the Titanic's   sinking.  His photographs are a remarkable record of the first days of the only voyage of the ship. 

Father Browne's story doesn't end there.  He was ordained in 1915 and became chaplain to the Irish Guards serving on the Western Front in WW1.  He was wounded five times, gassed once, was decorated with the Military Cross (twice), the third-highest British decoration at the time, and also with the French Croix de Guerre.  His commanding officer, Colonel (later Field Marshal) Harold Alexander called Father Browne "The bravest man I ever met."

Quite a story huh?  And it still doesn't end there, but let's just say Father Browne also became a distinguished Irish photographer as well, taking 42,000 pictures of all subjects during his life.   And that Waterloo Station shot's one of them! 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 7:56 PM

He took the only known image of Titanic's Marconi Room.  That's Harold Bride at the key:

He also may have invented "the selfie":

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 8:24 PM

It wouldn't urprise me if the good Father invented the "selfie," he was quite a remarkable man!

There's a superb photograph of Father Brown in his chaplain's uniform, it's in a book I have called "The Last Days Of The Titanic" but I can't find a grab-able one on-line.  He looks like a soldier!    I don't know when it was taken but on his left sleeve he has only two of the five wound stripes he'd eventually be authorized to wear.

Maybe Mike can find us one?  

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:06 PM

Well I'll be... that is amazing! Thanks Wayne and Penny. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:51 PM

You're welcome Vince!  I'll tell you, it's all the twists, turns, and peripherals in the Titanic  story that makes people like myself and Becky Titanic  junkies for life! 

There's so many stories to tell and so many lessons that tragic ship has to teach us.

Author Daniel Allan Butler said it best:  "Once you let Titanic  into your life, she never leaves!"  

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 10:41 PM
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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 4:27 AM

I wonder if G.K. Chesterton's fictional detective was influenced by the real Father Browne...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Brown

These started in 1910 which might be before the real Father Browne became known...

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 5:16 AM

Penny Trains
He also may have invented "the selfie"

And the "photobomb" at the same time!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:19 AM

I knew Mike would come through!  

Father (Chaplain - Major) Browne, the man himself!

A man I'd love to have a chat with over a bottle of "Tullamore Dew" and a box of cigars, or a pipe or two.  And don't let that formidable appearance fool you, the troops loved him!

Thanks Mike, and Vince for passing it on!

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Posted by Fr.Al on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:35 AM

Another father I know, Fr. Zhivko, is a Serbian Orthodox priest from Macedonia, had an uncle who was a survivor from the Titanic! The uncle made it back to Macedonia, which would have been then either in South Serbia or possibly the Ottoman Empire; this was pre WWI.

    Another Father, who was my professor in seminary, was Fr. Vladimir Borichevsky. He had the distinction of being the very first Orthodox chaplain in the US Army during WWII. He was a remarkable man, a walking encyclopedia. We used to try to distract him from our lesson and almost always succeeded, but you still walked out of his class having learned something. He died much too soon in 1990.

    I would split some Tullymore Dew with you, but I gave up the pipe and cigars decades ago. 

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 1:34 PM
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 7:30 PM

Ah, the brave new world of the WORM drive!  Isn't it interesting to see how this promise of the future came true -- in spades! -- and in how many ways even with profiteering and gatekeeping and monetizing that went on with scholarly material and collections since those days this dream of having free access to images has been borne out.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:41 PM

For those who would like improved versions of the first five photos on this thread, herewith:

Father Frank Browne, SJ

Note that Father Browne used a Leica M3, same as I still use.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 25, 2020 10:34 PM

Also:

Of course all photos here were long before even the first Leica was produced.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 26, 2020 2:16 AM

Minningman, what happened to the word "camera" at the bottom of the first page  of the scanned text?  Is it missing from the document?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:23 AM

Nice work on those photos David!

And it does look like some of those documents are incomplete, but not a catastrophe.  

That distinguished looking gentleman on the left of the second photo?  For years it was thought to be John Jacob Astor, who was lost on the Titanic,  however Astor didn't get on the ship until it stopped in Cherbourg.

Turns out to be a "Close, but no cigar!" situation.  The man is an Astor, but a cousin to John Jacob named William Waldorf Astor, husband of Nancy Astor, who moved to Britain in 1890.  He was there just to see some friends off on the train.

Father Browne almost threw away that photo of the wireless room since it was a double-exposure, (I wonder what he said when when the shot was devloped?  Probably something nasty but not blasphemous!) but when he found out it was the only photo of the wireless room he kept it anyway.   Titanic's  wireless equipment was the most modern and up-to-date of it's time.  It had a guaranteed range of 350 during the day, but could acually reach 500 miles, and a 1,000 mile range at night.  

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:45 AM

I probably screwed it up...I'll update and fix, just give me a bit of time, swamped here at the moment. Darn!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:14 AM

I found an interesting short history of "The Boat Train" in Titanic's  time.  Have fun, everyone!

http://www.turniprail.blogspot.com/2012/04/titanic-and-london-and-south-western.html  

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:04 PM

David and all--  The Father Browne story has been fixed. I initially missed page 2 and submitted page 3 twice. If you go back you can now read it correctly.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 29, 2020 5:01 AM

I've attepted to correct the double-expsure of the Marconi (Wireless) room.  First the photo with only contrast and shading processing, as posted ealier, then an attempt to correct the double-exposure.  Your comments are welcome.

 

 

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, March 29, 2020 6:43 AM

daveklepper

I've attepted to correct the double-expsure of the Marconi (Wireless) room.  First the photo with only contrast and shading processing, as posted ealier, then an attempt to correct the double-exposure.  Your comments are welcome.

Great effort! Thanks for that!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 29, 2020 10:32 AM

That really is a great effort!  Thanks David!

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 29, 2020 10:20 PM

Here is Father Browne's photo of the Titanic departing from Ireland:

The Book, A Dedicated Life, Father Frank Browne's biography, with photos, is published by Yale Univeristy Press, costs 50 dollars, and is available from Amazon.  The authors are the Davison Brothers, who also are responsible for the preservation and cataloging of Father Browne's negatives, and can be reached at info@davisonphoto.com.  But for the specific photos on this thread, go to www.titanicphotographs.com and
www.fatherbrowne.com
>

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 30, 2020 6:16 AM
On Sunday, March 29, 2020, 10:41:32 PM GMT+3, Richard Allman <allmanr@verizon.net> wrote:
 
 
Another Titanic anecdote, David:
 
Our church, Bryn Mawr Presbyterian where you much later than 1912 were an acoustics consultant, like many large Presbyterian churches at that time, decided to hire a pastor from Scotland, which was the historic home of Presbyterianism. There was no email or even regular phone service and all of the negotiations were carried out with written correspondence. Finally, the Elders decided on the Rev. Dr. Andrew Mutch and called him to their pulpit in late 1911.
 
They knew he would need time to sever his ties with his prior call and to ready is family for the Transatlantic move. Dr. Mutch agreed that his last Sunday in his prior church would be Easter Sunday, April 7, 1912, after which he and his family would begin their journey to Bryn Mawr. They packed, did their farewells and booked passage on Titanic.
 
When they arrived at Southampton, the Mutch family was informed that due to overbooking, they could not be accommodated and were booked on a different ship several days later. Their arrival was delayed by several days and one Sunday, but Dr. Mutch served as senior pastor from 1912 until 1936 when he retired, He lived until 1962, an additional 50 years from what would have been his near-certain death.
 
His daughter, Ada Mutch became a nurse and director of nursing at Lankenau Hospital where my wife trained and worked. Ada retired in the 1970’s, having also been a US Army nurse in World War 2. Ada died in 2012, one week before what would have been her 107th birthday, somewhat frail but totally with it mentally to end of her life. The Mutch family do not count as Titanic survivors but they come close!
RICH
 

 
 
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 30, 2020 12:25 PM

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 30, 2020 12:26 PM

How lucky Dr. Mutch and his family were!  There were eight clergymen on the Titanic,  three Catholic, five Protestant, and all lost.  Of course they were, they were men of God doing what they could to provide comfort and hope to those left on board.  Dr. Mutch, and we could assume Father Browne (had he stayed on board) would have made ten lost.  

I'm assuming Dr. Mutch and his family would have been traveling Second Class, neither First Class or Third Class (Steerage) were sold out.  Titanic  had 2,200 passengers on board, the maximum capacity was around 3,000.  

Thanks for passing that on David!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, March 30, 2020 8:34 PM

2,208 total.  324 in 1st, 284 in 2nd and 709 in 3rd for a total of 1,317 passerngers and 891 crew.  That of course doesn't count those who crossed in utero like John Jacob Astor VI and several others born to women survivors less than 9 months after April 14, 1912.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 30, 2020 8:41 PM

Thanks for the figures Becky!  2,208 souls in total.  I'll have to reference my figures more carefully next time.

The scary thing is considering the maximum capacity of the ship it could have been a lot worse.   

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, March 30, 2020 8:51 PM

Flintlock76
it could have been a lot worse.

You said a mouthful brother! 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:43 AM

I should have noted that Rich Allman's church is approximately across a street from the ex-PRR Bryn Mawr station on SEPTA's ex-PRR Paoli and now Downingtown and hopefully Lancaster or even Harrisburg line, and has an excellent organ and an outstanding music program including evening concerts.  I did at times travel from New York and back specifically for concerts.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 6:26 PM

David, those must have been some great concerts for you to travel all the way from New York to Bryn Mawr, even if you got two train rides along with them! 

What was more fun, the concerts or the train rides?

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:37 PM

Hard Question to answer. The music director chose music that was not well known but extremely high quality, usually including combinations of organ and instruments and chorus.

The following email was received yesterday, and when have a few more moments to spare I will go back and make the corrections:

On 3/31/20, Edwin davison <info@davisonphoto.com> wrote:
> Many thanks for the information, much of which we would know. If I could ask
> for a couple of further corrections, when you mention Father Browne would
> you please append SJ after his name to signify the order. Also the web
> information for this images is at www.titanicphotographs.com and
www.fatherbrowne.com
>
> Edwin Davison

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 2, 2020 3:10 AM

The Father Frank Browne (SJ) files are even more interesting than the Titanic files!  There is no question in my mind that the good Father was a railfan, with a whole section devoted to trains.  Here is one picture, not in any way altered by me:

The information given is Engine 406, photographed 1944.

Brian Solomon should be interested in all these photos and probably can provide further identification.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, April 2, 2020 8:36 AM

WOW!

Father Browne's rail pictures probably call for a book of their own!

"Railfanning With Father Browne."  There you go!  

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, April 2, 2020 9:22 AM

daveklepper

The Father Frank Browne (SJ) files are even more interesting than the Titanic files!  There is no question in my mind that the good Father was a railfan, with a whole section devoted to trains.  Here is one picture, not in any way altered by me:

The information given is Engine 406, photographed 1944.

Brian Solomon should be interested in all these photos and probably can provide further identification.

 

The 400s were built for the Great Southern and Western Railway and were mainly used on the trains on the main line between Dublin and Cork. 400 was built in 1916 and was based on the English Great Western Railway Star class, a superheated four cylinder simple. Four were built by the GSWR workshops at Inchicore and six by Armsrong Whitworth in England, apart from 400, between 1921 and 1923.

They were a disappointment in their original form and 400, 404 and 408 were scrapped by 1930. The others were rebuilt with two cylinders, 401,402 and 406 having 28" stroke but the others retained the 26" stroke from the four cylinder design. 401 and 406 had Caprotti poppet valves, but 401 was rebuilt with piston valves. A number were rebuilt with larger boilers.

The railways in Ireland were amalgamated in November 1924.

Since the GSWR was the largest system in the merger, GSWR locomotives maintained their numbers on the GSR, and later on the CIE.

Peter

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 3, 2020 5:52 AM

Here is 409:

And here's a New Doesel railcar with a leaky roof!

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, April 4, 2020 8:40 PM

With that first shot it looks like Father Browne was ahead of his time, most railfan photographers back then didn't bother with 3/4 back end shots.  This one looks good!

That lady with the umbrella!  "Adapt, improvise, and overcome!"

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, April 4, 2020 10:22 PM

I guessed the lady had the umbrella for shade from the sun coming in on that side.  The gentleman in front of her (the operator?) seems to be on the outside of the window.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 5, 2020 2:24 AM

I like the idea that he was a steam fan and took the picture becauses of a leaky roof.  And what you think is the left edge of the a window is clearly a pole within the car body.  Look at the fillet ar rhe top of the pole and compare with fillet at the right side of the window, which is indeed the reverse of the real left side of the window.

This was a post-WWII diesel railcar, amd the operatpr would not be outside.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 5, 2020 3:39 AM

In general. I wish to correct Father Frank Browne JG's images only to correct fading due to age or other specific imperfections like tears or holes or dirt.  But there is one exception:

The photo from the website:

The modification I would like:

Can you understand why?  I think if the good Father were still alive, I could convince him that a black daytine sky is a real forboding of doom, and I would not like to be resonsible for publishing such an image.  But the picture is a great one.  Does my modification loose any of its greatness?  Comments requested.

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, April 5, 2020 6:27 AM

daveklepper

And here's a New Diesel railcar with a leaky roof!

I think the driver is indeed beyond a window, a glazed partition between the cab and the  first class passenger compartment.

The railcar in question is:

These appear to be the CIE version of the AEC railcars built for the Great Northern Railway of Ireland shortly after WWII. A feature of the GNRI cars was the glazed partition at the cab end, which provided a view ahead at the leading end and an observation saloon at the rear. These were interesting mechanically, with the diesel engines and transmissions mounted on each side, one side driving the forward truck and the other side the rear truck. The final drives were like those on a Shay locomotive but only the two inner axles were driven. Two power cars could haul two trailer cars.

And I favour the sunshade theory of the umbrella.

Peter

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:05 AM

I stand corrected.  Thank you.  Is your photo of the two cars also the one in Father Frank Browne SJ Collection?  Or did you obtain it elsewhere and where?  And I gather the diesel was a flat design under the floor?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:15 AM

I should add, however, that I have never seen an umbrella opened in a train or transit vehicle for use as a sunshade.

I have seen one opened in a bus once and in a railroad coach once.  But I have to admit it was not rain through a leaky roof in either case but a leaky air-conditioning system.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:47 AM

daveklepper
And I gather the diesel was a flat design under the floor?

There is actually one of those 'how to...' videos from the Fifties on YouTube that tells how to start and run early versions of these railcars; it contains a number of detail views of the powerplants and gearboxes as installed.

Here's the introduction:

Note that on this type (I believe these were Derby lightweights), the engines are 'bus engines' but run flat (as on a number of American buses, and on RDCs).  This is different from a 'pancake' or horizontally-opposed 'boxer' engine design.  Note the "BUT" on the control gear; this was a joint venture between AEG and Leyland.

Here's the section dealing with faults that shows what to do with some of the 'very expensive' equipment under the car...

Note the 'other type' of railcar at about 34:00 - is this a Metropolitan-Cammell?

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:59 AM

daveklepper

I stand corrected.  Thank you.  Is your photo of the two cars also the one in Father Frank Browne SJ Collection?  Or did you obtain it elsewhere and where?  And I gather the diesel was a flat design under the floor?

 
Yes, the photo is from the Father Browne collection.
 
No, I believe the diesel engines were upright. They were mounted under the floor but at the outer edge of the floor just inboard of the body side. I think they were standard AEC Bus engines of 9.6 litres and 125 HP.
 
Peter
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Posted by M636C on Sunday, April 5, 2020 9:08 AM

daveklepper

In general. I wish to correct Father Frank Browne JG's images only to correct fading due to age or other specific imperfections like tears or holes or dirt.  But there is one exception:

The photo from the website:

The modification I would like:

Can you understand why?  I think if the good Father were still alive, I could convince him that a black daytine sky is a real forboding of doom, and I would not like to be resonsible for publishing such an image.  But the picture is a great one.  Does my modification loose any of its greatness?  Comments requested.

 
I think the locomotive is from Northern Ireland, from the Northern Counties Committee, probably a class U2...
 
 
 
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 5, 2020 11:25 AM

M636C
No, I believe the diesel engines were upright. They were mounted under the floor but at the outer edge of the floor just inboard of the body side. I think they were standard AEC Bus engines of 9.6 litres and 125 HP.

These were MEDs, right?  If I remember correctly these were re-engined to have the two AEG engines and this might explain why they would be upright and not flat.  There is also a later class (from 1957) that had two AEG (and later slightly more powerful Rolls-Royce) engines.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, April 5, 2020 4:15 PM

daveklepper

In general. I wish to correct Father Frank Browne JG's images only to correct fading due to age or other specific imperfections like tears or holes or dirt.  But there is one exception:

The photo from the website:

The modification I would like:

Can you understand why?  I think if the good Father were still alive, I could convince him that a black daytine sky is a real forboding of doom, and I would not like to be resonsible for publishing such an image.  But the picture is a great one.  Does my modification loose any of its greatness?  Comments requested.

 

This is tough, I'm not sure what to think, I may do a bit of thinking out loud, so bear with me.

Photo One, the more "contrasty" of the two.  The first things my eyes are drawn to are the clouds, with the dark sky they really "pop" out at you.  Photo Two, my eyes are drawn to the locomotive, everything else is secondary.  

As a railfan I should choose #2, since I could care less about clouds.  But #1's a bit more "artsy," for lack of a better term. 

Honestly I like them both!  I'd have to flip a coin if I had to choose one!

I do wonder what Father Brown used when he took the shot.  Panchromatic or orthochromatic film?  They were both available at the time.  A yellow or red filter, or just a plain lens?  Film and lens options in black and white photography will affect the finished product. 

Anyway, thanks for that color shot M636C, that's a beautiful engine!

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:12 PM

Overmod

 

 
M636C
No, I believe the diesel engines were upright. They were mounted under the floor but at the outer edge of the floor just inboard of the body side. I think they were standard AEC Bus engines of 9.6 litres and 125 HP.

 
I don't claim to be an expert on Irish Diesel Multiple Units.
 
However, I understood that Multi-Engine Diesel (MED) was a description of suburban railcars that ran on the NIR out of Belfast.
 
The engine builder was the Associated Equipment Company (AEC). It was "Associated" with the London General Omnibus Company and the logo was similar to that used by London Transport after it absorbed the LGOC.
 
AEG is a German electrical company that translates as "General Electric Company" although it was not associated with GE.
 
The cars we are discussing were initially built for the GNRI and were based on railcars built by AEC for the the English Great Western Railway. CIE bought some to the same design and took over a share of those of the GNRI when it was split up between CIE and NIR.
 
The design thus dates back to the late 1930s. By placing the engines upright on the side of the vehicle, the crankshaft (and gearbox) could be lined up with the driveshaft along the side to the truck, all of these easily accessible from the side (once the streamlined panels were removed).
 
The CIE railcars pictured in this thread had all this exposed with just a wire mesh cover to protect the engine.
 
Flat versions of the engine were developed for underfloor engined buses in the late 1940s and 1950s and these were used on British Railways cars, partly because the BR clearances were more restricted than those in Ireland (and those on the former broad gauge lines of the GWR).
 
The underfloor version allowed a central driveshaft which looked neater than the Irish version without the streamlined covering.
 
Peter
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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, April 5, 2020 11:52 PM

M636C

 

AEG is a German electrical company that translates as "General Electric Company" although it was not associated with GE.
 

Similar to how ASEA (now the "A" in ABB) translates into General Swedish Electric Company, though the Swedish word for Company is usually abreviated as "AB".

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 6, 2020 12:53 AM

Flintlock, thanks for responding and your comments.  Pretty certain Father Browne, SJ, used Plus-X Panchromatic or its equivalent with a red filter.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 6, 2020 6:45 AM

I would like to see Father Frank Browne SJ'a trains photos presented in an orderly manner in a printable pdf, much as what we download for free on this website and what I have done for distribution to friends and those requesting from Jack May's many trip reports.  Brian Solomon has the knowledge and skill to do this by himself.

If I were to do it, I'd need a collaborator (or collaborators) to put the pix in logical order, show the location each photo on a map of the oveall Irish railway system(s) and add any necessary comment to the good father's comment  for each photograph.

Anyone wanting one or more of the Jack May trip pdfs can request at 

daveklepper@yahoo.com

If you want all, it may take several days.  Otherwise, Eastern Eureope?  UK?  USA Streetcar?

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 6, 2020 11:14 AM

daveklepper
I would like to see Father Frank Browne SJ'a trains photos presented in an orderly manner in a printable PDF ...

I'm ASSuming (as you were the one forwarding the e-mail) that you have secured the necessary full written permissions from Davison for rights and use of the material.  It seems to me that they would be the appropriate source both to put together and to host the resulting files.

The work then becomes ordering the pictures to go in the 'collections' in order referenced by their existing site URLs -- and providing any 'corrected' versions of the images to the Davison site webmasters or whoever for inclusion.  Then sending appropriately indexed files with the updated information to be appended via metadata... with their understanding on how to format it, use it, and allocate any rights to the associated novel intellectual-property content.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, April 6, 2020 7:37 PM

Overmod

 

daveklepper
I would like to see Father Frank Browne SJ'a trains photos presented in an orderly manner in a printable PDF ...

 

I'm ASSuming (as you were the one forwarding the e-mail) that you have secured the necessary full written permissions from Davison for rights and use of the material.  It seems to me that they would be the appropriate source both to put together and to host the resulting files.

The work then becomes ordering the pictures to go in the 'collections' in order referenced by their existing site URLs -- and providing any 'corrected' versions of the images to the Davison site webmasters or whoever for inclusion.  Then sending appropriately indexed files with the updated information to be appended via metadata... with their understanding on how to format it, use it, and allocate any rights to the associated novel intellectual-property content.

 

Would all of those permissions be required for what is essentially private non commercial use?

More significantly, there appear to be numerous errors in the captions as reproduced on the website. The photo of the 4-4-0 I identified as an NCC U2 class (an inside cylinder 4-4-0) was identified as a GSR 400 series, (an outside cylinder 4-6-0). This leads me to believe that at least some of the captions were written after the photos were recovered, and not by the photographer.

Peter

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 6, 2020 10:28 PM

All the above makes sense.  Possibly the best course is simply to suggest to the Davison Brothers that the book would be a winner and that others on this Forum and I would be happy to help in any way, including some possible corrections.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, April 11, 2020 12:35 PM

Another idea:  You who have copied some of the pictures into your hard-drive and/or USB device, tell us which one or two pictures mean most to you and why and post them on this thread.  Eventually, there will me material for book that will go beyond just the pictures.  Some  current views of the locations might also be of great interest.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, April 11, 2020 10:14 PM

Here are two of my favorites, the top the Dublin - Cork train, the bottom the "EnterpriseP Dublin - Belfast - Cork, Irish steam expresses.

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, April 12, 2020 7:47 AM

daveklepper

 

Here are two of my favorites,  the bottom the "Enterprise" Dublin - Belfast, Irish steam expresses.

 

While the present day Enterprise runs between Belfast and Dublin, in the 1950s it ran right through from Belfast to Cork via Dublin, as indicated by the curved nameplate on the locomotive smokebox.

The locomotive, CIE 402 was generally recognised as the best of its class, hence it was used on the premier train of the day. It had 28" stroke cylinders, while most of the conversions from four cylinders retained the original 26" stroke.

The train was worked from Belfast to Dublin by the large 4-4-0s of the Great Northern Railway of Ireland, so this photo is between Dublin and Cork in the 1950s.

So the train ran the full length of Ireland from Belfast in Northern Ireland to Cork in the south of the Republic. Cork was where the Titanic called in to drop Father Browne off.

I don't think I've ever seen the nameplate for the Northbound train which presumably read "Cork-Dublin-Belfast". The plates were carried on both the CIE and GNRI locomotives.

This train was converted to diesel operation in the late 1950s using the AEC railcars of the GNRI, generally similar to the CIE cars illustrated earlier in this thread, with a trailer buffet car for refreshments.

Peter

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 12, 2020 8:54 AM

Thanks, and please post some pistures important to you, your own or those of Father Frank Browne SJ.  Thanks.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 12, 2020 9:18 AM

When I first posted the Enterprise photo, I noticed a small tear in the upper right corner that was disfiguring.  With lack of time, I '''corrrected" by cropping the top a tiny  bit.  I've gone back and repaired the tear on the original and corrected the first posting and repeating that here.  Peter may wish to use the corrected correction also.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:48 AM

Nice cropping job David!

It's also pretty apparant that Father Browne wasn't bothered by trackside poles or overhead wires, the things that used to drive American railfan photographers nuts.

In the American rail scene today those poles and wires are as much a part of the past as steam engines themselves.  

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, April 12, 2020 6:42 PM

That photo conjures up a lot of impressions.  A warm summer day.  The countryside.  Lazy clouds.  Just bowling along as fast or as slow as steam wants to carry you.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:00 PM

Flintlock76
It's also pretty apparant that Father Browne wasn't bothered by trackside poles or overhead wires...

Those poles with so many cross arms is the second most interesting subject in the photo.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 13, 2020 10:45 AM

Here is a mosr unusual picture, and I will leave it to Peter to tell us all about it:

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, April 13, 2020 11:02 AM

That is  unusual.  I magnified the picture until I started losing resolution and I'm not sure what that structure is.  It's either a bridge built like nobodys business or a run-through engine servicing facility.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 13, 2020 1:34 PM

A covered bridge

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 13, 2020 6:10 PM

daveklepper
... a most unusual picture, and I will leave it to Peter to tell us all about it:

Reminded me rather promptly of this:

One of the more spectacular ideas in early railroad engineering ... until you have to run locomotives that don't "consume their own smoke".  Then the tubes get progressively latticed out...

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, April 13, 2020 6:40 PM

A covered bridge!  I'll bet it's still there!

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Posted by M636C on Monday, April 13, 2020 9:32 PM

daveklepper

Here is a most unusual picture, and I will leave it to Peter to tell us all about it:

 

 

The Boyne Viaduct:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyne_Viaduct

Years ago I was travelling on a Eurailpass which didn't apply in Northern Ireland so I got off The Enterprise in Drogheda and caught the next train back. It was a cold wet winter day but I could see the bridge from the station.

Peter

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 13, 2020 10:02 PM

Thanks!   And a recent posting  on the Brooklyn Elevated thread refers to the Titanic -  Ciry of New York (the ship) "confrontation" at Souhhampton.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 1:59 AM


SS New York and the Titanic 

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 11:46 AM
Okay, I got Bab-O, they deliver.
 
Happy Titanic Day 
 
 
( when I was a kid we ended that song like this. " Kerplunk, it sunk, too bad, so sad" 
I'm sure there are other versions) 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 1:28 PM

"It Was Sad When That Great Ship Went Down."

I detect the fine hand of Mike again!

Strange, but no-one has any idea of who wrote that Titanic  song, it just seemed to appear out of nowhere within weeks of the disaster.  Children were heard singing it on the streets, and the reaction was "How did kids come up with something like that?"  

Kind of like " The Worms Crawl In, The Worms Crawl Out" song, but we should save that one for Halloween!  

Oh, and the liner Teutonic  mentioned in Lawrence Beesley's account of the near collision?  That's the ship John Phillip Sousa was returning from Europe on when he composed "The Stars And Stripes Forever!"   Sousa said the march just popped into his head, he set it to paper, and never changed a note afterward.

But we'll save that one for Independence Day!

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 8:06 PM
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 9:59 PM

"Down With The Old Canoe."  I've heard of it, but never heard it before.

Thanks Vince!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 10:57 AM

April 14-15, 1912.  "A Night To Remember."   108 years ago. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_MDc35pWg  

And RIP, Honor Blackman.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 5:56 PM

Unsolicited, Steve Sattler sent me a message on the Jewish angle

of the Titanic disaster, which may be of interest to most readers of

this thread.  I've excerpted what may be most interesting, and

those wishing the complete message can contact Steve at

sattler31@gmail.com.

From 1880 -1920, some 3 mill. Russian Jews fled the Russian region,

so it is  not surprising that there were many Jews on the Titanic, most

of them in steerage. The Titanic set sail after Pesach 1912. The Hebrew

Immigration Aid Society  records show that only 27 Jews/ board survived,

all of whom were  taken from the rescue ships to a  Sheltering Home in NY.

The NY Jewish community viewed the sinking of the Titanic as a great

tragedy, & hundreds/ American synagogues held services in memory/ victims.

Songwriters wrote original pieces honoring the dead; among them was

Yiddish lyricist Solomon Small, who wrote Der Nasser Kever (“The Watery

Grave”). The famous Cantor Yossele Rosenblatt, who recorded  El Malei

Rachamim in memory of the  lost - donated the $150,000 -sales of the

album to help support the survivors.

THE TITANIC DISASTER:- "The survivors say that it was common

to inform the passengers that the poor  could be considered lost while

the first rescue boat filled with people from those found close to her.

The screaming surrounded the entire ship, & the women & children raised

a howl: & then the captain appeared and said: "women and children first!" 

And what is worthy of note is that everyone inside the boat immediately

obeyed the order &, with no refusal,


Initially, the kosher dishes & utensils were old tableware salvaged specifically

for White Star kosher service but, after WWI, kosher tableware was specially

made to cater to the growing numbers of Jewish passengers. However, no

kosher dishes or cutlery have ever been recovered from the sinking of the 

Titanic, though a few pieces from the Olympic do exist. .

To date, no kosher-only menu specific to the Titanic has ever been found,

though the experts on the subject argue that they must surely have existed

because there do exist exceedingly rare copies of standard 1913 White Star

third-class menus that declare “Kosher Meat supplied & Cooked for Jewish

Passengers as desired.”


The final Titanic lunch menu, from April 14, 1912, was sold at auction

in 2015 for $88,000. The salvaged menu once belonged Abraham Lincoln Salomon (1868-1959), a Jewish passenger & stationery dealer who traveled

to Europe/ business trip accompanied by his daughter, though he alone

booked 1st-class passage to return to NY on the doomed vessel.

He ultimately escaped death by boarding the infamous Lifeboat No. 1

which, though it had a 40/ capacity, nonetheless took off from the sinking

ship carrying only 12 people, including 7 crewmen, who assuredly did not 

“go down with the ship.”

2018:- On August 23, a pocket watch that belonged to Sinai Kantor,

a Jewish Russian immigrant who died aboard the Titanic, & featured

Hebrew letters on its face & Moses holding the 10 Commandments on/

back, sold at auction for $57,500. His wife Miriam was one of the few

Jewish survivors.

 

Steve

 

 

 

 
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 6:26 PM

Is there some reason that over and over and over again we get these long posts that don't wrap correctly in the forum software and are fundamentally unreadable, even though of great length?

How hard can it be just to cut and paste the text unformatted in the window, enclosing what has been snipped from an e-mail or other communication using the quote function or quote tags?  I certainly can't recover a readable version by any means available to me, thanks to poor programming choices at Kalmbach that let me extend the window dramatically, but not the column of actual content visible in it...

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 6:42 PM

Many of Dave Klepper posts are frequently cut off along the right side.

My long post of Tues Apr 14 @ 1:59 am is entirely within and readable on both my iPad and iPhone . 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 7:11 PM

Very interesting read of the Jews on the Titanic.  Thanks David!

I've got a question.  Would the kosher dishes and utensils be specifically so marked?  The reason I'm asking is when the White Star Line purchased dishes, bowls, utensils, and so forth they bought them en masse  for the whole shipping line, with no specific markings other than "White Star Line."  

This has been a caveat emptor  for Titanic  fans for years.  The only thing on the  Titanic  that had the ship's name on it was the ship itself, the exception being ephemera like menus.   So if you see a teacup that has "RMS Titanic" on it, watch out!   

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 7:12 PM

Stuff happens.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 7:45 PM

Wayne is  " The Worms Crawl In, The Worms Crawl Out" song you mention the one that begins "Did you ever think as the hearse rolls by...."? I remember two versions of the ending; both are gruesome. 

Johnny

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 9:43 PM

That's the one Johnny, and you're not a bona-fide kid if you don't know some version of it!  Kids DO love a good gross-out, and always have.  I learned it when I was a kid, so did Lady Firestorm.

No-one's sure where that one comes from either.  American aviators during the First World War used to sing it together*, real typical military gallows humor there, but it's believed the song is considerably older, at least to the late 19th Century.

Again, I'll save a dissertation on this for Halloween, although anyone can get the story using "The Google Machine."  

Wayne  

*  The music and lyrics were in a book of American soldier songs I found in a used bookstore called "Sound Off!,"  published in 1939, and the book mentioned its popularity with aviators.  I almost split a gut laughing when I saw it!  "Hey!  I KNOW this one!"

In the book it's titled "The Big Grey Hearse."

"The big grey hearse goes rolling by, you don't know whether to laugh or cry.

'Cause you know one day it'll get you too, and it's very next load may consist of you!"  

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:11 AM

The error was inadvertant.  I usually have taken great pains to see that everything fits, but this morning I was distracted from examining the finished post by an important matter, and now I will use the error button to return and corrrect the posting,  A thousand apologies.

But, often I  cannot tell how it will fit until I see the actual posting.  So the posting will run off the right when first posted, but return one hour later, and you wil find the total readable.  I will have done the editing in the interim.   This is particularly true of New York MTA and SEPTA press releases.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:31 AM

I have no additional knowlege about Titanic or White Star dishes.  Cannot answer Flinktlock's question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:46 AM

Turning back to Father Frank Browne SJ's photows, the website caption refers to this as an Engineering Department inspection vehicle. Does Peter have more information?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, April 16, 2020 9:39 AM

Doesn't that look cool?

I don't see any evidence of a propulsion system though, I wonder if it was pushed or towed?  

You know, it kind of reminds me of an antique hot dog wagon!  

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, April 16, 2020 10:58 AM

Wayne, the one I know begins, "Did you ever wonder, as the hearse goes by, that one these days you will surely die?" Different words, but the sentiment is the same.

Johnny

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, April 16, 2020 3:06 PM

Deggesty

Wayne, the one I know begins, "Did you ever wonder, as the hearse goes by, that one these days you will surely die?" Different words, but the sentiment is the same.

 

No surprise Johnny, there's lots of variations out there, probably depends on what part of the country you're from. 

Wayne 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:41 PM

Flintlock76
I wonder if it was pushed or towed?

I would guess pushed based on the seating, but pushed by what?  Compared with the buffer height of the cars around it, and the lack of them on the car in question, I would doubt a locomotive would have been used.  Can we date it?  Maybe a small gas engine speeder could push or pull it?

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, April 16, 2020 9:21 PM

I'm still puzzling over that inspection car.  Maybe there's a small gasolene engine in there some place where we can't see it?

Since this is Ireland it definately wouldn't be used as a hot-dog stand.  Maybe a fish n' chips stand?  Wink

It's a beautiful thing, at any rate!

A sad irony to that piece by Elbert Hubbard, "The Titanic."  Hubbard himself was lost three years later in the sinking of the Lusitania.   

Quite a popular writer in his time, Elber Hubbard was also the author of "A Message To Garcia."  

Timeless words o' wisdom, and here it is.

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31822042776955&view=1up&seq=1  

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 16, 2020 10:15 PM

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Thursday, April 16, 2020 10:49 PM

 

 

Is that a crank by the man's left knee.  Has headlight.

 

Thank You.

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, April 17, 2020 12:10 AM

See the Railway Times, Feb 24 1906?

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:25 AM

Miningman, this was also the Cantor that charted a special PRR train, I think Jersey City - Baltimore, that set the speed record on the NEC up to the time of the Lindberg newsreel special, both with E-6 Atlantics, both in the Westing - Kalmbach book Apex of the Atlantics, so he could give an evening concert in both New York City and Baltimore.  I do not have the Westing book at hand at the moment and someone may wish to check the exact facts,

Also, one of the important people in the history of public medicine in Israel was Nathan Strauss (after whom Netanya was named). He was due to sail on the Titanic, with his brother Isidore and
sister-in-law, but was delayed and missed the boat. Isidore and his wife
perished, and Nathan saw that as a Divine sign that he had been saved for a
purpose. He therefore devoted most of his time and money to Public Health.
Anyhow, here is a You Tube of Yossele.
https://youtu.be/JEpadnRY4CU

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:40 AM

There is also an important, but narrow, street in Jerusalem named for Nathan Strauss, used by the 22, 25, 34, 35, and 45 bus lines for all or most of its length, and 71-75, and the 19A in one direction, for one block, making it the very most congested street in Jerusalem.  Nothing but taxis and buses during rush hours and mid-day.  Was even more congested before the light rail opened.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:37 AM

NDG, I think you nailed it and solved the mystery, there must be a gasolene engine in there.

Well done!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:41 AM

Great YouTube clip David!

When the Titanic  sank Tin Pan Alley went into overdrive putting out memorial songs, most (if not all) pretty forgettable, but Cantor Rosenblatt's tribute is just beautiful!  I don't understand a word he's singing, but I don't have to, and that says something.   What a beautiful voice he had!

I looked up Nathan Straus.  What a man, he did an awful lot of good!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Straus  

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 19, 2020 1:31 PM

Here is another of my favorite Father Frank Browne S. J. pictures.   Probably Peter can supply details:

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, April 19, 2020 2:13 PM

daveklepper

Here is another of my favorite Father Frank Browne S. J. pictures.   Poddibly Peter can supply details:

 

 

As I look at the one on the right, I get the impression, from the smoke box doors, that it was very old when the picture was taken.

Also, looking at what coupling/uncoupling entailed I wonder: did those who did the work duck under or climb/leap over the buffers?

Johnny

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 19, 2020 3:58 PM

Deggesty
Also, looking at what coupling/uncoupling entailed I wonder: did those who did the work duck under or climb/leap over the buffers?

In many of the movies on British practice, I see them scrambling underneath (in part facilitated by having to tinker with the brake pipes too).

In passenger work in Germany/Austria and Switzerland, in the mid-Seventies, I remember them generally reaching over and down, never getting to where an inadvertent car movement would find any part of their body 'cuttable' by wheel contact...

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, April 19, 2020 4:33 PM

daveklepper

Here is another of my favorite Father Frank Browne S. J. pictures.   Poddibly Peter can supply details:

 

 

The one on the right looks like a childs storybook engine, doesn't it?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, April 19, 2020 10:24 PM

It appears the smokebox has double-doors.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, April 20, 2020 4:38 AM

daveklepper

Here is another of my favorite Father Frank Browne S. J. pictures.   Probably Peter can supply details:

 

 

I've been a bit slow getting to this....

The locomotive on the left is GSR 461, an inside cylinder 2-6-0 built for the Dublin and South Eastern Railway by Beyer Peacock in 1922. This locomotive is now preserved by the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland. A summary of locomotive classes in 1948 described the two locomotives in the class as "One of the best Goods on the System". Inside cylinder 2-6-0s are unusual but are represented by "James" in the "Thomas the Tank Engine" books.

The locomotive on the right is a former Great Southern and Western Class 101 0-6-0 which dates back to 1867, and some of these were built by Beyer Peacock also. It appears to have been rebuilt with a 4'4" diameter boiler, but retains the original design of smokebox with a backward sloping front and two smokebox doors. The 1948 summary said: "The general purpose small Goods engine can work over most lines."

Peter

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 20, 2020 5:56 AM

Thanks, Peter!

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:30 AM

Who would like to discuss differences and similarities between classic Irish and North American interlodking installations?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:09 AM

daveklepper
Who would like to discuss differences and similarities between classic Irish and North American interlocking installations?

I think a better place to start might be between British and American practice, followed by detail differences between contemporary British and American plants of this era.  This is not an area where I have more than 'reading' expertise, so will leave it to others with 'the Knowledge' and the proper enthusiasm.

It had not occurred to me that those little patent plates were actually pedals to assist returning the levers to locking position.

The term 'interlocking' itself refers to Saxby and Farmer-type arrangements, where only full combinations of route could be selected with the switch levers and others were 'locked out'.  This was invented just after the American Civil War, and (as usual, I supposed, where these things are concerned) there is some question about whether very early American interlocking practice was cribbed from the English or parallel-developed.  These things remain one of the great innovations of the Victorian era, really as technologically advanced in anything in security lock practice or even horology of that period; I have the same trouble trying to figure out how complex plants are 'programmed' as I do trying to reverse-engineer something like an IBM Composer to fix and adjust it without a manual.  In other words: lots.

Note the typically British electric line-occupancy indicator, about which there are many discussions online -- both in its principles and in its practical use.  I believe the inimitable Robinson developed devices like this in America, by the 1870s, but they had comparatively little early use (you would not believe some of the relevant battery chemistries!) I think in part due to the relatively late invention of the dynamo as a practical source of DC power at the required combination of voltage and amperage to make electrical signaling fully 'practical'.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, June 26, 2020 4:15 AM

Seem to have lost the caption.  Where is this signal bridge?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, June 26, 2020 8:17 AM

I don't know myself, but wow, it looks like a signal bridge on steroids!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, June 26, 2020 7:36 PM

Aye chihuahua!  Tongue Tied  I pity the operator! 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, June 26, 2020 11:52 PM

I was waiting for people more familiar with UK practice to flag the location -- I'd lay money on Peter Clark knowing not only the railroad and place but the era down to a few years' spread, the type of equipment, etc.

For some reason this makes me think of Reading.  (the one in England).

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, June 27, 2020 6:36 AM

Overmod

I was waiting for people more familiar with UK practice to flag the location -- I'd lay money on Peter Clark knowing not only the railroad and place but the era down to a few years' spread, the type of equipment, etc.

For some reason this makes me think of Reading.  (the one in England).

 

I think that view is approaching Dublin Heuston (orignally called Kingsbridge).

The elevated roadway on the right and the general track layout looks right.

The carriage doesn't look like one of any of the major British railways. In fact, it looks like a vehicle belonging to the Great Northern Railway of Ireland. A number of vehicles with that style of panelling and flat or nearly flat sides were built during the very early years of the 20th Century. These had small raised class indicator plates just above the windows in the doors and these appear in the photo.

Against this is the fact that GNR(I) trains normally terminated at Dublin Connolly north of the river but there were connecting lines and through trains were run as far as Cork.

But that's the best I can do.

Peter

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, June 27, 2020 7:31 PM

It's been found!

 

Posted by daveklepper on Friday, June 26, 2020 4:15 AM 

Seem to have lost the caption.  Where is this signal bridge?

Crewe Gantry, 1930  http://www.fatherbrowne.com/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crewe

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, June 27, 2020 9:34 PM

Crewe in England.  Interesting.  There's a Crewe here in Virginia, and it's a crew change point on the Norfolk-Southern line to Danville.  

Crewe must be a good name for railroad towns!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 28, 2020 3:04 AM

But is that gantry in the part of Crewe that is not Crewe, or is in in the not-Crewe that is Crewe?

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, June 28, 2020 3:17 AM

I just knew this would start a riot. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:13 AM

Glad to use the Dublin-Heuston caotion, and thank you!

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:02 AM

Flintlock76

Crewe in England.  Interesting.  There's a Crewe here in Virginia, and it's a crew change point on the Norfolk-Southern line to Danville.  

Crewe must be a good name for railroad towns!

 

Wayne, Crewe is on what was the N&W's main line; you go west from there, and you go through Farmville; you go east, and you go by Petersburg. what have you been drinking?Big Smile

Johnny

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:09 AM

Deggesty

 

 
Flintlock76

Crewe in England.  Interesting.  There's a Crewe here in Virginia, and it's a crew change point on the Norfolk-Southern line to Danville.  

Crewe must be a good name for railroad towns!

 

 

 

Wayne, Crewe is on what was the N&W's main line; you go west from there, and you go through Farmville; you go east, and you go by Petersburg. what have you been drinking?Big Smile

 

 

Well last night only Coca-Cola, you know, "Southern Holy Water?"

I just dug out my ancient old (1991) Virginia railfan book and you're absolutely right Johnny, Crewe is on the old N&W (now NS) mainline from Norfolk to Roanoke. However the book does call it a "crewe" change point. 

If you work for NS and you're part of the crewe I guess that's what you dew.

Wayne

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:15 AM

Are you sure that it wasn't Mexican holy water from Jalisco state?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:09 AM

Miningman
I just knew this would start a riot. 

No, that was Heuston.  At least it got a rise out of you.

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:29 AM

And if it's around Fat Tuesday, you can be a member of a 'Krewe'.

York1 John       

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:52 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Are you sure that it wasn't Mexican holy water from Jalisco state?

 

I'm sure.  Definately from Hot-Lanta!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:34 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Are you sure that it wasn't Mexican holy water from Jalisco state?

They do that differently now.

 

https://www.cbs17.com/news/check-this-out/priest-goes-viral-after-picture-shows-him-using-squirt-gun-filled-with-holy-water/

We are starting to confuse 'holy water' with 'water of life' with 'divine elixir'.  That's gonna get us in trouble.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, June 29, 2020 9:18 PM

 
Assuming this is Crewe (the one in Cheshire), It didn't look much like that when I las visited in 2013. I had also passed through Crewe at night in 1997 when I last travelled to Dublin by rail and ferry. That was also my last visit to Dublin Heuston.
I invite anyone to look at the aerial photo in google maps of the present Crewe station. Where the brick retaining wall stands in this photo, there are now six electrified main line tracks, two of which join the North Wales Coast line on the level and four of which tunnel under the junction, two each joining the line to Manchester and the West Coast main line. These bypass tracks are only for freight trains, since the non stopping passenger trains (all on the West coast) just run though on centre tracks away from the platforms. These are used by the Pendolinos. I tried to photograph these and the best technique is to set the camera on fast sequence mode and hope that one of the shots has the train in the right place.
Anyway assuming this is Crewe, the train is entering from the north on the West Coast Main Line, and the gantry only applies to that line. There would have been similar gantries on both of the diverging routes. These would have been contolled by Crewe Station "A" box which is currently preserved in it original location inside the Crewe Rail Heritage Centre, formerly part of Crewe Workshops (which would be behind the photographer on the right).
The carriage could be an LMS carriage of the type called "Period I" based on Midland Railway designs. For this to be true, the rectangular area above the windows would be a "Stones Ventilator" which consists of vertically hinged glass louvres, half each oriented foward and aft. I can't see how these would reproduce as a flat sheet, as they appear to do in this photo. This type of carriage had paired windows, one of which was a droplight. This does seem to be the case. On this car the photographer is leaning out of one of the droplights, and one ahead of him is also open. I assume this photo was taken during summer.
The windows of the Pendolinos are not as large and definitely don't open.
Peter
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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:45 AM

Haven't we established that it is Dublin-Heuston and not Crewe?  Or did I miss  somthingt

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Posted by scilover on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:41 AM
Oh wow, amazing pictures! He invented the first selfie while taking a haircut hahaha. What year was this?
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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 4:04 AM

The Leica M3 shown in the selfie and regularly used by Father Frank Browne, SJ, was introduced by Leitz in 1954, and is the camera I regularly use.

Father Frank Browne, SJ, past on in 1960 at age 80.

I've been cutting my own hair.  When the Coronavirus threat is ended, and I pay to have a haircut, should I take a selfie with my Leice M3 and have it posted?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:32 AM

Why ever not?  There's certainly historic precedent for it!

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 5, 2020 8:37 AM

OK   Will do.    May have to wait a while.

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, July 8, 2020 8:20 PM

daveklepper

Haven't we established that it is Dublin-Heuston and not Crewe?  Or did I miss  somthingt

 

Firstly, I should apologise for taking so long to answer this. I am having an apartment renovated, and I have been tied up with contractors for much of my time.

I have been as confused as anybody.

However, when I looked at an enlargement of the photo in question, there was an overhead bridge over the station just at the (North) end of the overall roof. Having checked as much as I could, I haven't found any evidence of an overhead bridge at Dublin Heuston station at any time.

Also, in the enlargement it became clear that there was no road behind the retaining wall to the right of the photo.

So, on reflection, despite the view looking nothing like Crewe today, it seems likely that the photo was indeed Crewe. There are other relevant comments in my earlier post.

Peter

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