Penny TrainsProbably the law firm that used it as a conference room.
Aah, yes. That explains all the law books on the shelves
Thank you, Ed
Overmod how the Rexall Train came to Cleveland -- was the oil-burning 4-8-2 cut off and run around while the train went electrified?
Try here: https://www.themetrains.com/rexall-train-timeline.htm It suggests that the "Cleveland" stop may actually have been Elyria.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
gmpullman I don't know when the preposterous lighting was added or by whom.
Probably the law firm that used it as a conference room. They seem to have totally missed the point of "an English Manorhouse".
Jones1945(Not my work)
Whoever did it, the color really brings it home for me!
Penny TrainsThe Greenbrier Suite:
This is how the room looked just a few weeks ago:
Van_suite by Edmund, on Flickr
It seems to appear that some of the same books are on the shelves have been untouched since 1936. The suite is being renovated, hence the removal of furniture and the carpets rolled up. I don't know when the preposterous lighting was added or by whom.
Regards, Ed
gmpullman mercury 1936 by Edmund, on Flickr
mercury 1936 by Edmund, on Flickr
(Not my work)
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
From Wiki:
"Revenue service for the Cleveland Mercury, with only a stop in Toledo between its two endpoints, began on July 15, 1936. By September 1936, New York Central found that the new Mercury service did not impact the ridership on other trains it operated between those two cities. It proved so popular that another train was built and displayed in Indianapolis in October 1939; it was built for the Chicago Mercury and was introduced in regular service on November 12, 1939. These two train sets serviced both Cleveland Mercury and Chicago Mercury service, but the schedule was such that one train set began the day in Cleveland, ran to Detroit as the Cleveland Mercury, and ran from Detroit to Chicago as the Chicago Mercury, while the other set did the reverse run (the eastbound Chicago Mercury arrived in Detroit after its westbound counterpart had left, so the NYC would have needed an extra train set, if it had not shared sets across trains). The Cleveland run was on a 2:50 hour schedule and the Chicago run took 4:45.
The James Whitcomb Riley was introduced on April 28, 1941, running between Cincinnati and Chicago on a 5:15 hour schedule. It was named after the popular poet because of his association with Indiana and Americana. The equipment was basically the same as the other Mercurys, although it was an all-coach train. The Cincinnati Mercury, running between Cincinnati and Detroit on a 6:30 schedule, followed the Riley into service."
IIRC, the streamlined K-5a Pacific was assigned to haul the James Whitcomb Riley in 1941, the original Chicago Mercury was powered by the Dreyfuss Hudson since then.
M636CEnlarging the photo shows a train that really looks like the original Mercury
I think it might well be the original Mercury set -- logical, if the Chicago-Detroit service were so successful as to get the 'cream' of new equipment, that the older train would be put in different service. I'm not enough of an NYC guy to know the fine points of which Mercury service got which equipment over time, but I'd bet there are people at NYCSHS who could tell you without having to research it.
I strongly suspect Ed's picture -- which I believe is out of the November 1936 National Geographic -- is a publicity shot, as to my knowledge the Cleveland Mercury hadn't been established in 1936. Or would be operating under steam in the location pictured, instead of (as seen later with the same trainset) with engine change at Linndale.
This of course promptly raises the inquiring-minds question of how the Rexall Train came to Cleveland -- was the oil-burning 4-8-2 cut off and run around while the train went electrified? I looked for pictures or description and came up short; Mike MacDonald could probably find full coverage in his sleep.
MidlandMike Jones1945 Nice photo of the 9-car (or 10-car) Mercury powered by the good-looking T-Motor. P motor. The T motor was a somewhat shorter box cab with a B-B+B-B wheel arrangement. Only ran in NY.
Jones1945 Nice photo of the 9-car (or 10-car) Mercury powered by the good-looking T-Motor.
P motor. The T motor was a somewhat shorter box cab with a B-B+B-B wheel arrangement. Only ran in NY.
Keep in mind that's not the "Mercury", it's the "Cleveland Mercury" (which is something different from the train we all 'think of' as the Mercury, with the streamlined K5b and rebuilt commuter cars, that ran between Chicago and Detroit never getting further east than about Toledo starting in 1936.
Enlarging the photo shows a train that really looks like the original Mercury, except for the second car which looks like a Pullman Standard lightweight coach. The leading combine has a more arched roof, smaller letterboards and a large number of small windows, just as on the original Mercury. The other cars appear to match the combine in most respects. Did NYC convert more than one Mercury set?
Peter
Jones1945Nice photo of the 9-car (or 10-car) Mercury powered by the good-looking T-Motor.
A close up view of the Arrival Board at CUT:
These are from the Michael Shwartz Library collection at Cleveland State University by the way: https://clevelandmemory.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/search/searchterm/cleveland%20union%20terminal/page/1
The "Pullman Distributing Room":
Train Information Room:
Although P1-a electrics did a lot of the passenger hauling, NYC steam did have access to the terminal. The description says "New York Central 3012 with WB #433 leaving Cleveland Union Terminal", another iconic Harwood CUT photo!
The coach yards under construction:
One of those fantastic P1-a's:
In contrast, here's a Nickel Plate Road train:
Same location but a few years later:
OK. THAT'S more like it!
It might be noted that a Cleveland Mercury could continue to operate with a 'dedicated' special steam locomotive, as the train will always pass through Linndale for its power change.
There was also a Cincinnati Mercury, although whether this did or didn't operate on a faster schedule than the Riley is something someone like Ed will have to answer...
I believe that ATSF had the practice of running passenger extras as sections of #7 and #8 (the Fast Mail) for operating reasons.
Jones1945 Miningman The Board... and the Gate! As a kid it was the first thing I would study at the station no matter where I was. It was a big part of the railroad world and you're imagination. Nothin' like checking these out and reading every line.. wonderment and daydreaming! Find your train! If there were sections or WWII troop trains run as sections of the train listed on the board, would RRs also display their info on the board?
Miningman The Board... and the Gate! As a kid it was the first thing I would study at the station no matter where I was. It was a big part of the railroad world and you're imagination. Nothin' like checking these out and reading every line.. wonderment and daydreaming! Find your train!
The Board... and the Gate! As a kid it was the first thing I would study at the station no matter where I was.
It was a big part of the railroad world and you're imagination. Nothin' like checking these out and reading every line.. wonderment and daydreaming!
Find your train!
If there were sections or WWII troop trains run as sections of the train listed on the board, would RRs also display their info on the board?
Not likely. WW2 troop train movements were considered "classified" information and their comings and goings wouldn't be published, on public timetables or otherwise.
This is not to say there wasn't some military traffic on the named trains, but those were individuals or very small groups.
It goes without saying railfans back then had to be very careful persuing their hobby. God have mercy on you if you were caught trackside on a mainline with a camera when a troop train came past! Or any military train for that matter.
gmpullman The westbound Mercury approaching Linndale: CUT_Mercury_Linndale by Edmund, on Flickr — and another view of Linndale: CUT_Linndale_209-204_crop by Edmund, on Flickr A GE advertisement: CUT ad merge by Edmund, on Flickr My nephew has an apartment in the Terminal Tower which has now been converted to residential suites. Earlier this year he had an opportunity to see the Van Sweringen rooms and they are nearly untouched since their deaths in 1935 and 1936. Thank you, Ed
The westbound Mercury approaching Linndale:
CUT_Mercury_Linndale by Edmund, on Flickr
— and another view of Linndale:
CUT_Linndale_209-204_crop by Edmund, on Flickr
A GE advertisement:
CUT ad merge by Edmund, on Flickr
My nephew has an apartment in the Terminal Tower which has now been converted to residential suites. Earlier this year he had an opportunity to see the Van Sweringen rooms and they are nearly untouched since their deaths in 1935 and 1936.
Nice photo of the 9-car (or 10-car) Mercury powered by the good-looking T-Motor.
Cleveland Union Terminal:
Cleveland Union Terminal Concourse by Edmund, on Flickr
The actual arrival and departure board is seen in the distant right:
CUT_Dedication1 by Edmund, on Flickr
A page from the New York central employee magazine for July, 1930:
NYCL_mag_0002 by Edmund, on Flickr
The dedication dinner. I understand O.P. and M.J. chose not to attend:
NYCL_mag_0003 by Edmund, on Flickr
I'm pretty happy with present day destination displays at stations.
Sydney Central in the old days had both departure and arrival boards, but in my time basically had a huge board with rotating wooden boards to allow for different stopping pattern. This board is now in a museum in its final form.
It was big and complicated and had special clip on panels for certain trains to show particular stopping points or on board features.
Old Display
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_railway_station,_Sydney#/media/File:Central_Station_indicator_board.jpg
But the present displays are of course flat screen TVs with the long axis vertical, dozens of them and these are easier to read and can display any service variation easily.
New display
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_railway_station,_Sydney#/media/File:Central_railway_station_Sydney_Grand_Concourse_201708.jpg
The boards are edge on just right of centre in the photo.
But the new boards are bigger, clearer and brighter.
On one of the city underground stations (Town Hall), small "repeater" displays of the next train are fitted into the structural beams facing away from the platform edge, so you can identify your train without moving out to the edge of the platform to see the main displays. You'd have to know the station to understand what an improvement that is but as a user over many years, that is in the class of a "sliced bread" improvement in peak hours.
What took you so long Penny!
A magnificient achievement.
The New York Central was also. Outstanding, now fading from memory.
Memphis Central Station beautiful. So important and meaningful.
All hallmarks of civilization and society.
Wow. Go big or go home indeed!
A visit to Cleveland Union Terminal.
There are train boards on the left and right in this Harwood photo:
The main steam concourse with mini train boards at each work station:
The ticket concourse:
Stairs down to the platform:
Baggage elevator on the flip side:
The Greenbrier Suite:
CUT in the 90's:
rcdryeIC/CRI&P must be Memphis.
And Memphis Central Station (as miningman's link indicates), not Memphis Union Station (where the Tennessean from the east Tennessee board wound up). The board survives in the 'adaptive restoration'. (All those stub-end terminal tracks east of the mains, though, don't)
Note the wildly varying station listings for the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley, though. Is it possible that the station-name 'slugs' for these boards were put up hurriedly by people who didn't care what the actual sequence of these stations was?
Good stuff on Cleveland Union Terminal!
Looks like the Van Sweringen brother's motto must have been "Go big or go home!"
Of course, after the Terminal was built they WERE home, if I remember correctly they had an apartment built for themselves in the office tower.
BaltACD rcdrye New York Central boards in Cleveland? IC/CRI&P must be Memphis. 9:35 AM at Memphis doesn't sound right for the Panama Limited
rcdrye New York Central boards in Cleveland? IC/CRI&P must be Memphis.
9:35 AM at Memphis doesn't sound right for the Panama Limited
Johnny
Yes Cleveland and Memphis is correct.
http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/terminal-tower-cleveland-ohio
http://condrenrails.com/MRP/MemphisCentralStation/Early-Central-Station.htm
rcdryeNew York Central boards in Cleveland? IC/CRI&P must be Memphis.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
New York Central boards in Cleveland? IC/CRI&P must be Memphis.
The Southern board could have been from Johnson CIty, Jonesboro, or Greeneville, Tennessee. At one time or another, I rode all of those trains except numbers 1 and 4 (those two were discontinued befoore 1954).
Jonesboro is now Jonesborough. Greeneville was named for General Nathaniel Greene.
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