The Gate and the Board

1617 views
30 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
The Gate and the Board
Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 10:24 PM

The Board... and the Gate! As a kid it was the first thing I would study at the station no matter where I was. 

It was a big part of the railroad world and you're imagination. Nothin' like checking these out and reading every line.. wonderment and daydreaming!

Find your train!

 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 5,158 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 19, 2020 9:38 AM

That New York Central board in the first shot, wow!

Talk about giving the impression to a passenger he or she was about to experience a great adventure, and also giving the impression the NYC was a mighty collossus and for a brief time YOU were going to be a part of it!

"A time 'Gone With The Wind'..."

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 19, 2020 10:51 AM

The Southern board could have been from Johnson CIty, Jonesboro, or Greeneville, Tennessee. At one time or another, I rode all of those trains except numbers 1 and 4 (those two were discontinued befoore 1954). 

Jonesboro is now Jonesborough. Greeneville was named for General Nathaniel Greene.

Johnny

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,199 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 19, 2020 11:20 AM

New York Central boards in Cleveland?  IC/CRI&P must be Memphis.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 19,235 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 19, 2020 11:24 AM

rcdrye
New York Central boards in Cleveland?  IC/CRI&P must be Memphis.

9:35 AM at Memphis doesn't sound right for the Panama Limited

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 19, 2020 11:43 AM
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:17 PM

BaltACD

 

rcdrye
New York Central boards in Cleveland?  IC/CRI&P must be Memphis.

 

9:35 AM at Memphis doesn't sound right for the Panama Limited

 

In June of 1916, IC #3 was due into Memphis at 9:10 am, and out at 9:35--and due into New Orleans at 8:45 pm. It also made more stops than it did 50 years later. It left Chicago at 6:35 in the evening. 

 

Johnny

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 5,158 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:48 PM

Good stuff on Cleveland Union Terminal!

Looks like the Van Sweringen brother's motto must have been "Go big or go home!"

Of course, after the Terminal was built they WERE home, if I remember correctly they had an apartment built for themselves in the office tower. 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 13,071 posts
Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:28 PM

rcdrye
IC/CRI&P must be Memphis.

And Memphis Central Station (as miningman's link indicates), not Memphis Union Station (where the Tennessean from the east Tennessee board wound up).  The board survives in the 'adaptive restoration'.  (All those stub-end terminal tracks east of the mains, though, don't)

Note the wildly varying station listings for the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley, though.  Is it possible that the station-name 'slugs' for these boards were put up hurriedly by people who didn't care what the actual sequence of these stations was?

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
  • 3,442 posts
Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:47 PM

A visit to Cleveland Union Terminal.  Big Smile

There are train boards on the left and right in this Harwood photo:

The main steam concourse with mini train boards at each work station:

The ticket concourse:

Stairs down to the platform:

Baggage elevator on the flip side:

The Greenbrier Suite:

CUT in the 90's:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 5,158 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 19, 2020 9:52 PM

Wow.  Go big or go home indeed!

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 19, 2020 10:41 PM

What took you so long Penny! 

A magnificient achievement. 

The New York Central was also. Outstanding, now fading from memory. 

Memphis Central Station beautiful. So important and meaningful.

All hallmarks of civilization and society.  

 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,072 posts
Posted by M636C on Friday, March 20, 2020 12:22 AM

I'm pretty happy with present day destination displays at stations.

Sydney Central in the old days had both departure and arrival boards, but in my time basically had a huge board with rotating wooden boards to allow for different stopping pattern. This board is now in a museum in its final form.

It was big and complicated and had special clip on panels for certain trains to show particular stopping points or on board features.

Old Display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_railway_station,_Sydney#/media/File:Central_Station_indicator_board.jpg

 

But the present displays are of course flat screen TVs with the long axis vertical, dozens of them and these are easier to read and can display any service variation easily.

New display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_railway_station,_Sydney#/media/File:Central_railway_station_Sydney_Grand_Concourse_201708.jpg

The boards are edge on just right of centre in the photo.

But the new boards are bigger, clearer and brighter.

On one of the city underground stations (Town Hall), small "repeater" displays of the next train are fitted into the structural beams facing away from the platform edge, so you can identify your train without moving out to the edge of the platform to see the main displays. You'd have to know the station to understand what an improvement that is but as a user over many years, that is in the class of a "sliced bread" improvement in peak hours.

Peter

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 10,724 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, March 20, 2020 4:03 AM

Cleveland Union Terminal:

 Cleveland Union Terminal Concourse by Edmund, on Flickr

The actual arrival and departure board is seen in the distant right:

 CUT_Dedication1 by Edmund, on Flickr

A page from the New York central employee magazine for July, 1930:

 NYCL_mag_0002 by Edmund, on Flickr

The dedication dinner. I understand O.P. and M.J. chose not to attend:

 NYCL_mag_0003 by Edmund, on Flickr

The westbound Mercury approaching Linndale:

 CUT_Mercury_Linndale by Edmund, on Flickr

   — and another view of Linndale:

 CUT_Linndale_209-204_crop by Edmund, on Flickr

A GE advertisement:

 CUT ad merge by Edmund, on Flickr

 

My nephew has an apartment in the Terminal Tower which has now been converted to residential suites. Earlier this year he had an opportunity to see the Van Sweringen rooms and they are nearly untouched since their deaths in 1935 and 1936. 

Thank you, Ed

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, March 20, 2020 5:15 AM

gmpullman

The westbound Mercury approaching Linndale:

 CUT_Mercury_Linndale by Edmund, on Flickr

   — and another view of Linndale:

 CUT_Linndale_209-204_crop by Edmund, on Flickr

A GE advertisement:

 CUT ad merge by Edmund, on Flickr

 

My nephew has an apartment in the Terminal Tower which has now been converted to residential suites. Earlier this year he had an opportunity to see the Van Sweringen rooms and they are nearly untouched since their deaths in 1935 and 1936. 

Thank you, Ed 

Nice photo of the 9-car (or 10-car) Mercury powered by the good-looking T-Motor.  

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, March 20, 2020 5:29 AM

Miningman

The Board... and the Gate! As a kid it was the first thing I would study at the station no matter where I was. 

It was a big part of the railroad world and you're imagination. Nothin' like checking these out and reading every line.. wonderment and daydreaming!

Find your train!

 

If there were sections or WWII troop trains run as sections of the train listed on the board, would RRs also display their info on the board?

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 5,158 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 20, 2020 9:52 AM

Jones1945

 

 
Miningman

The Board... and the Gate! As a kid it was the first thing I would study at the station no matter where I was. 

It was a big part of the railroad world and you're imagination. Nothin' like checking these out and reading every line.. wonderment and daydreaming!

Find your train!

 

 

 

If there were sections or WWII troop trains run as sections of the train listed on the board, would RRs also display their info on the board?

 

Not likely.  WW2 troop train movements were considered "classified" information and their comings and goings wouldn't be published, on public timetables or otherwise.  

This is not to say there wasn't some military traffic on the named trains, but those were individuals or very  small groups.

It goes without saying railfans back then had to be very careful persuing their hobby.  God have mercy on you if you were caught trackside on a mainline with a camera when a troop train came past!   Or any military train for that matter.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 12,063 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, March 20, 2020 10:40 AM

I believe that ATSF had the practice of running passenger extras as sections of #7 and #8 (the Fast Mail) for operating reasons.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 13,071 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, March 20, 2020 12:04 PM

Keep in mind that's not the "Mercury", it's the "Cleveland Mercury" (which is something different from the train we all 'think of' as the Mercury, with the streamlined K5b and rebuilt commuter cars, that ran between Chicago and Detroit never getting further east than about Toledo starting in 1936.

It might be noted that a Cleveland Mercury could continue to operate with a 'dedicated' special steam locomotive, as the train will always pass through Linndale for its power change.

There was also a Cincinnati Mercury, although whether this did or didn't operate on a faster schedule than the Riley is something someone like Ed will have to answer...

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
  • 3,442 posts
Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, March 20, 2020 8:00 PM

A close up view of the Arrival Board at CUT:

These are from the Michael Shwartz Library collection at Cleveland State University by the way: https://clevelandmemory.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/search/searchterm/cleveland%20union%20terminal/page/1

The "Pullman Distributing Room":

Train Information Room:

Although P1-a electrics did a lot of the passenger hauling, NYC steam did have access to the terminal.  The description says "New York Central 3012 with WB #433 leaving Cleveland Union Terminal", another iconic Harwood CUT photo!

The coach yards under construction:

One of those fantastic P1-a's:

In contrast, here's a Nickel Plate Road train:

Same location but a few years later:

OK.  THAT'S more like it!  Wink

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 4,852 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, March 20, 2020 9:52 PM

Jones1945
Nice photo of the 9-car (or 10-car) Mercury powered by the good-looking T-Motor.  

P motor.  The T motor was a somewhat shorter box cab with a B-B+B-B wheel arrangement.  Only ran in NY.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,072 posts
Posted by M636C on Saturday, March 21, 2020 4:48 AM

MidlandMike
Jones1945
Nice photo of the 9-car (or 10-car) Mercury powered by the good-looking T-Motor.  

 

P motor.  The T motor was a somewhat shorter box cab with a B-B+B-B wheel arrangement.  Only ran in NY.

 

Keep in mind that's not the "Mercury", it's the "Cleveland Mercury" (which is something different from the train we all 'think of' as the Mercury, with the streamlined K5b and rebuilt commuter cars, that ran between Chicago and Detroit never getting further east than about Toledo starting in 1936.

Enlarging the photo shows a train that really looks like the original Mercury, except for the second car  which looks like a Pullman Standard lightweight coach. The leading combine has a more arched roof, smaller letterboards and a large number of small windows, just as on the original Mercury. The other cars appear to match the combine in most respects. Did NYC convert more than one Mercury set?

Peter

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 10,724 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, March 21, 2020 4:52 AM

 mercury 1936 by Edmund, on Flickr

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 13,071 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 21, 2020 5:07 AM

M636C
Enlarging the photo shows a train that really looks like the original Mercury

I think it might well be the original Mercury set -- logical, if the Chicago-Detroit service were so successful as to get the 'cream' of new equipment, that the older train would be put in different service.  I'm not enough of an NYC guy to know the fine points of which Mercury service got which equipment over time, but I'd bet there are people at NYCSHS who could tell you without having to research it.

I strongly suspect Ed's picture -- which I believe is out of the November 1936 National Geographic -- is a publicity shot, as to my knowledge the Cleveland Mercury hadn't been established in 1936.  Or would be operating under steam in the location pictured, instead of (as seen later with the same trainset) with engine change at Linndale.

This of course promptly raises the inquiring-minds question of how the Rexall Train came to Cleveland -- was the oil-burning 4-8-2 cut off and run around while the train went electrified?  I looked for pictures or description and came up short; Mike MacDonald could probably find full coverage in his sleep.

 

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, March 21, 2020 11:04 AM

From Wiki:

"Revenue service for the Cleveland Mercury, with only a stop in Toledo between its two endpoints, began on July 15, 1936. By September 1936, New York Central found that the new Mercury service did not impact the ridership on other trains it operated between those two cities. It proved so popular that another train was built and displayed in Indianapolis in October 1939; it was built for the Chicago Mercury and was introduced in regular service on November 12, 1939. These two train sets serviced both Cleveland Mercury and Chicago Mercury service, but the schedule was such that one train set began the day in Cleveland, ran to Detroit as the Cleveland Mercury, and ran from Detroit to Chicago as the Chicago Mercury, while the other set did the reverse run (the eastbound Chicago Mercury arrived in Detroit after its westbound counterpart had left, so the NYC would have needed an extra train set, if it had not shared sets across trains). The Cleveland run was on a 2:50 hour schedule and the Chicago run took 4:45.

The James Whitcomb Riley was introduced on April 28, 1941, running between Cincinnati and Chicago on a 5:15 hour schedule. It was named after the popular poet because of his association with Indiana and Americana. The equipment was basically the same as the other Mercurys, although it was an all-coach train. The Cincinnati Mercury, running between Cincinnati and Detroit on a 6:30 schedule, followed the Riley into service."

IIRC, the streamlined K-5a Pacific was assigned to haul the James Whitcomb Riley in 1941, the original Chicago Mercury was powered by the Dreyfuss Hudson since then.

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • 1,500 posts
Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, March 21, 2020 11:15 AM

gmpullman

 mercury 1936 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

(Not my work)

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 10,724 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:35 PM

Penny Trains
The Greenbrier Suite:

 

 

This is how the room looked just a few weeks ago:

 Van_suite by Edmund, on Flickr

It seems to appear that some of the same books are on the shelves have been untouched since 1936. The suite is being renovated, hence the removal of furniture and the carpets rolled up. I don't know when the preposterous lighting was added or by whom.

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
  • 3,442 posts
Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, March 21, 2020 6:49 PM

Jones1945
(Not my work)

Whoever did it, the color really brings it home for me!  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
  • 3,442 posts
Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, March 21, 2020 6:51 PM

gmpullman
I don't know when the preposterous lighting was added or by whom.

Probably the law firm that used it as a conference room.  They seem to have totally missed the point of "an English Manorhouse".  Wink

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • From: Parma Heights Ohio
  • 3,442 posts
Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, March 21, 2020 7:05 PM

Overmod
how the Rexall Train came to Cleveland -- was the oil-burning 4-8-2 cut off and run around while the train went electrified?

Try here: https://www.themetrains.com/rexall-train-timeline.htm  It suggests that the "Cleveland" stop may actually have been Elyria.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter