Studebaker Photos... Raymond Loewy styling...

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, February 15, 2020 7:41 PM

Capitaine  Loewy obviously didn't have anything to do with that elegant buggy, however it's worth pointing out Studebaker was  one of the builders of the famous "Conestoga" wagons that carried pioneers and freight west in the 19th Century.  

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, February 15, 2020 7:45 PM

Capitaine  Lowey obviously didn't have anything to do with that elegant buggy, however it's worth pointing out Studebaker was  one of the builders of the famous "Conestoga" wagons that carried pioneers and freight west in the 19th Century.  

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, February 15, 2020 10:34 PM
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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:22 AM

Nice follow up NDG.  I remember that plant like it was yesterday. Drove by that way many times, mostly with my Dad but later on my own when I had a motorcycle. 

This makes no sense to me at all. Streetcars are gone, the New York Central is gone, Studebaker is gone. I swear we are suicidal, you don't know what you got 'till it's gone. How long before our country is gone?

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 16, 2020 3:14 PM
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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 16, 2020 8:22 PM

Terrific info NDG. This is a very good thread!

Studebaker builds 200,000 2.5 Ton trucks alone, not to mention all the other things and models 1941-45... over 900,000 trucks combined from 3 manufactures. Amazing ... can you imagine all that steel, copper, rubber, glass and so on... not to mention all the other war effort products. The steel mills must have just humming, the mines just highballing, the railroads jam packed not only with freight but people as well. The folks sure had it together. 

This beast reminds me of 1944 steam. 

 Now we cannot even solve homelessness, blockades, hidden agendas, out of control crony capitalism, economic illiterates, self absorption everywhere.

All that WWII freight and the many many passenger trains to everywhere and in multiple sections. It got done! Today the freight railroads whine about how the whole railroad is compromised by three days a week passenger trains, just a one of, no sections. Good grief. 

Truman said " what a paradise we could have if we don't screw it up "

We are well on our way. 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, February 17, 2020 10:33 AM

Poor old Studebaker. A combination of unimanginative management after the war, a slow loss of creativity, and caught in the price war between Ford and GM, they just couldn't survive.  Just a perfect storm for disaster.   

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, February 17, 2020 11:54 AM

And just in time for the recession that slaughtered the Edsel, they acquired Packard and crossbred their car with a vacuum cleaner and a sturgeon.

And yes, that's what had been done to Loewy's '53 outline by that point ... you'll see more of it before Stevens worked what magic he could on that shell (some argue, not really enough...)

Although I will say that if EMD could make a Canadian factory work for a while, why couldn't Studebaker?  Certainly no lack of underlying tech to make things work -- if you have contemporary DeLorean-at-Pontiac style moxie...

Now it does have to be said that I was fascinated to see that both the historic spirit of Edsel and late-Fifties Packard is alive, and in some respects well, at the company that holds the rights to the Packard Motor Car Company collateral.  I didn't think you could top the '58 styling, but these guys seem to have managed, in spades.  (The preserved roofline and windows from the Lincoln Town Car only add to the relative horror...)

That half-height grille seems to have been tried before -- anyone remember the Exner 'revivals' of the Sixties?.  I loved those things (as an eight-year-old) and the Packard was particularly cool in two-tone green... until you opened the box and actually saw what the front end was.  It worked no better there...

 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bUvMOMhACAA/U35D2_Fk4sI/AAAAAAAAEfY/oJO6Yc7Y8QQ/s640/IMG_4300.JPG

Note in particular the trope of the large round hidden headlights in that Toronado-style panel.  I'm tempted to say that had he retained the actual Toronado mechanism and lights and trimmed the pop-up door he'd have a (somewhat) better result... but it still doesn't live up to the promise of the box lid.

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, February 17, 2020 12:11 PM

Studebakers were very popular in Canada, they sold very well right up to the end. Seemed like every fourth car was a Studebaker... more so in Southern Ontario. 

Like the railroads, they build a nation, win the war with incredible effort and then are passed over, ridiculed and destroyed. 

They had Volkswagon import rights, made $150 on each one brought in for very little effort and almost had a major Japanese import too until some idiot on the Board screwed that up. Also had Mercedes but many of the dealerships just did not have the economic means to pull that off although some did.

Today there could have been Studebaker/Packard- Volkswagon-Nissan-Mercedes Dealerships across the land AND building 4th generation Diesels at the Montreal Locomotive Works. Also aviation interests.

Bombardier would still be selling 'snowmobiles' , maybe lawn mowers too, that's it. 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 5:38 PM

Overmod and All:  Missed that posting somehow.

EGADS!!!??

This would be firecracker worthy. Not even sure I would show it off to my buddies after building it.  I'd keep the tires and rims in my spare box first though.

 

Overmod sayeth " And just in time for the recession that slaughtered the Edsel, they acquired Packard and crossbred their car with a vacuum cleaner and a sturgeon.

My Dad's warbuddy Frank had one these, or something very very similiar. He got caught in a gate crossing and got just ever so slightly brushed by a steam locomotive in Burlington. I still have the mark on my chin where I hit the dashboard, marked for life! My mom and I were in the car, front seat. Another inch or two and I wouldn't be around to tell about this. Only have fuzzy glimpse memory but my mom remembers it well.

Back to the car itself... well, that's quite a critique but it looks nice to me, better than those bubble cars that thankfully seems to be slowly changing into something different. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:55 PM

Would have been a good look for the Green Hornet.  Big Smile

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by NDG on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 7:19 PM

 

Studebaker Lark.
 
Studebaker Larks were very popular and well regarded.
 
 
Came in various  trim levels and could be ordered w V8.
 
Some regions swore by International Trucks and they were everywhere.
 
 
 
Also popular were International Travelalls and they could be seen in quantity in certain areas.
 
 
Gas Filler ahead of front door.
 
I drove many I-H trucks, known as Corn Binders, back in the day. Good vehicle for the era.
 
I understand that International was one of the first to offer FACTORY 4-Wheel Drive where as Chev and Ford were sent out
to add live front axle and transfer case.
 
Often to Marmon Herrington, and an Oval badge applied to attest the converstion.
 
Ford Marmon Herrigton Conversion. Oval Plate on hood rear.
 
 
 
Driving older 4x4 trucks took stamina and endurance before power steering and power brakes.
 
A forest of shift levers on drive tunnel to choose from, a small pedal on bell housing to operate starter.
 
Vacuum wipers which stopped as you stepped on the foot feed.
 
Downgrade on ice in the Mtns exceeding A Rating and chains.
 
Battery under floorboards to drip on your face if you rolled it.
 
Mais, Je digress, encore.
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 9:17 PM

Miningman, you and I would have been great friends growing up, I wouldn't have hesitated to put a firecracker in that "Green Hornet" car myself. 

I had some military modeler friends who thought car models were only good for blowing up to begin with.

I even "firecrackered" a tank model or two that didn't turn out right.

And when I discovered the wonderful world of black powder, well, need I say more?  

Anyway, I can't say I'm too crazy about the look of those late model "Studs."  Then again, I'm not a big fan of most 60's cars anyway.  An ugly decade in more ways than one.  

Cars?  I'd rather party like it's 1929!  I wish Ford would bring back the Model A!

 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 10:26 PM

Here is a version of the story about Brooks Stevens and the developments after the Golden Hawk.  

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2016/03/16/the-sceptre-the-cruiser-and-brooks-stevenss-radical-plan-to-save-studebaker/

There is more via the link at the bottom.  In some respects the Sceptre still seems modern today.  Why the Canadians did not carry out some of this after the bottom fell out in America has always been a bit confusing to me.

 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:29 PM

Looks like they needed Federal funding in which case you would need to move to Quebec! Probably Dief the Chief was PM and he took things like great ideas apart, didn't build on them. In late '63 the Liberals under Pearson took power and they wouldn't know a good thing if it hit them in the face. The Ontario Premiers at that time were super stuffy blah blah blah God Save the Queen guys. It was all about pomp and goofiness.  Monty Python material. We needed Uncle Louie (St. Laurent) or Mackenzie King to get it done but they were gone. 

Also GM, Ford and Chrysler had built or building monstrous plants all over Ontario and the politicos were in their pocket. 

Canadian Banks in the early 60's wouldn't lend you the dust building up on piles of cash and gold, entrepreneurs needed a pedigree and even then they would seek out a nod from across the pond. A lost decade, then Pierre, the Daddio of Justin came in and the pendulum swung to utter disrespect of the West, take all their money, deny them any success and party with Fidel.

No country on this planet has been so adverse to picking up the brass ring and denied the greatness that should have been once the 60's arrived and since, with the exception of the Mulroney years coinciding with President Reagan.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, February 19, 2020 7:07 PM


The Origins of Studebaker 

 
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Posted by NDG on Thursday, February 20, 2020 4:04 AM
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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, March 5, 2020 9:44 PM

Well, I might as well toss in my two cents worth on Studebaker, as I was born and raised in Hamilton, Ontario.

Here's a photo of the new 1950's model coming off the assembly line...

The guy in the suit is my dad, who built the car, while the chap in the snappy-looking blazer is me.

While my dad didn't work at Studebaker at that time, he later worked there as a supervisor in the '60s, up until the end in Hamilton.

The model, a pedal-powered car, had four-wheel independent suspension, and a rather sophisticated steering system that provided camber on cornering - I managed to roll it once while showing-off for cute girl, also three at the time.

I have construction photos of it, built much like flying model airplanes, which was my dad's hobby during the 30s, 40s, and 50s.  It's mostly all-wood construction, and all of the metal trim - bumpers, grill, headlight bezels, windshield frame, etc., were also hand-made, as was most of the running gear.

I believe that he may have intended to later power it with a self-designed and -built rotary engine, for demonstration purposes, the prototype of which is still in my possession.

I obviously outgrew the car, and we loaned it to a younger cousin, but, when he too outgrew it, they put it to the curb for garbage pick-up.  I wouldn't be surprised, though, if someone still had it, tucked away in their basement or attic.

A couple of years ago, the Studebaker Club of Canada contact me regarding the photo shown above, and it's now part of a plaque located in a park adjacent to the former site of the Hamilton plant.

Wayne

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, March 5, 2020 10:00 PM

Flintlock76

Poor old Studebaker. A combination of unimanginative management after the war, a slow loss of creativity, and caught in the price war between Ford and GM, they just couldn't survive.  Just a perfect storm for disaster.   

 

They may have had trouble as a car company, but they stayed in business many years in other industries, contributing many assets to the Studebaker-Worthington merger, which operated Onan, Gravely Tractor, Clark Floor Machines (forklifts), Wagner Electric, Worthington Corp, and more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker-Worthington

Gravely and Onan alone were very successful divisions of Studebaker Worthington in the 60's and 70's.

I'm a GRAVELY tractor fan:

This is my current post Studebaker GRAVELY, but I grew up on two Gravelys from the Studebaker days.

Even though my tractor is a 1995, post Studebaker, it is still the core design introduced by GRAVELY under Studebaker ownership in 1971. A design that continued until 2004. Rear engine direct drive into an eight speed cast iron transaxle with separate clutches for instant forward and reverse. 

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, March 5, 2020 10:15 PM

Wayne, that's really cool.

Around 1961/62 when I was 4/5, my grandfather who owned a trucking company bought me a battery operated car that used an automobile battery. It was a fiberglass body on a piece of plywood, hard rubber tires. Battery in the front under a cast metal grill, motor and chain drive under the back, pedals for forward and reverse, no bakes!

But not anywhere near as cool looking as that Studebaker!

I remember my father charging it with a home made charger - a 120 volt motor with a belt driving an automotive generator, mounted on a board. 

Sheldon

    

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, March 5, 2020 10:50 PM

Thanks for that additional info, Sheldon.  I was aware of the Worthington connection, but not of the Gravely one, nor the Wagner one.

The latter does, however, further pique my interest, as I have a compressor ( I use it only for my model train airbrushing work) which my father built using a Wagner rotary compressor, along with some home-made add-ons. 
I managed to contact Wagner, who have been absorbed several times over into other larger companies, but they can tell me nothing of its origin or original purpose. 

I vaguely recall it mentioned, by my father, in connection with tree harvester machines made by Koehring-Waterous, in Brantford, Ontario, where he worked in the late '60s, early '70s.  I don't know what its purpose might have been with those, though. 
I also have no clue as to the purpose of some of the add-ons, but it works beautifully, without problems.

Here are a couple of photos...

Compression is accomplished by two intermeshed screws running in tandem in an oil bath, so there's no pulsing output, as with a piston- or diaphram-type compressor, so no storage tank is needed to smooth-out air delivery.
Because of that, the compressor runs continuously, but in the 25-or-so years I've been using it, there has never been any water or oil in the air output, nor in the respective filter equipment designed to remove  those things from the compressed air.

Studebaker was also affiliated with STP in the '60s, and Packard in the '50s, the latter which provides another connection, albeit in a somewhat roundabout manner, with Hamilton, Ontario.
Hamilton has the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, and among their collection of flying warplanes is one of only two Lancaster bombers still airworthy (the other belongs to the RAF).  It flies regularly over our area in the summer months, and some of my grandkids are not only avid fans of it, but the six year-old granddaughter is surprisingly knowledgeable about it and is as big a fan of it as am I. 
The connection to Packard is in the Merlin engines, for which Packard, in Buffalo, NY, was licenced to build during WWII.  All of the engines owned by the Heritage group were built by Packard - and they obviously own more than just the four used on the plane at any one time.

Wayne

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:06 PM

Yes, it ws a deverse company with lots of inter-related holdings that complimented each other.

Early GRAVELY walk behind tractors had a GRAVELY built engine, but by the late 60's the switch was on to Onan, another product of the mother company.

GRAVELY tractor used mainly Onan engines until the 80's when Onan and GRAVELY both had new owners and the people at Onan lost interest in the lawn care equipment market. GRAVELY then switched to mainly Kohler engines.

Your compressor is a design commonly used in many early refrigeration systems, also a business Studebaker Worthington had a hand in. Who knows?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, March 6, 2020 12:03 AM

Great stuff guys!

Packard Plant in Detroit E. Grand Blvd.

Looks like the Luftwaffe bombed it! 

Comparison pic "then"

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Friday, March 6, 2020 12:08 AM

FWIW, Onan was bought by Cummins somewhere in the 1980's. One reason for the purchase was that Onan was making diesel engines for electric power generation. One of these designs ended up being slected by Chrysler for use in the Dodge pick-up trucks.

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