Hey you two!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, August 22, 2019 9:09 PM

That's the United Rail Historical Society in New Jersey who painted an E unit in the NYC "Jade Green" scheme.  I've only seen photographs of it but personally I don't think it looks as good as the grey with lightning stripes scheme. 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, August 22, 2019 10:22 PM

Flintlock/Wayne -- good to see you are able to communicate! Even on models the jade green looks a bit wonky on E units. I would however luv to see it on a NYC CLiner, with the script logo, if the story is real. 

Hope you are enjoying yourself.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, August 23, 2019 8:34 AM

Hi Vince!  And everyone else!

I'm up here in Pennsylvania on a hotel guest computer.  Other people's computers are like other people's kitchens, nothing's where it's supposed to be!  Takes some getting used to!

Anyway, I found a link to the URHS's "Jade Green" E-Unit.  Hope it works...

https://www.urhs.org/locomotives#nyc-4083 

Bingo!

Anyway, we're heading off to niece Stephanie's in a hour or so for some heavy yard work, it's going to be the "Lansdale Chainsaw Massacre!"

"Bwah-ha-ha-ha!" 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, August 23, 2019 10:03 AM

Let me know when you get to Strasburg.  I want to find out what modifications have been made on 611's lateral compliance firsthand.

 

Story I've gotten so far is that Don Wetzel's wife (he of course was famous for the jet RDC project) picked out the jade green from swatches.  If there is a picture of the 5-axle FM in this scheme it does not appear to be in any of Ed Nowak's published material ... and it would be strange indeed not to see it feature in one of those compilations.  That would mean that the postcard-trading community, which is notably close-mouthed about what it does or doesn't have until you're ready to trade, and also notoriously concerned with any kind of publication that might interfere with their sales market, might be the only real hope left.

NYC got much more life out of at least one of these than I'd expect, in large part via re-engining at Collinwood (to a decidedly Christine-ish lower horsepower!)  There was an article in MR on detailing one of these conversions (on a more typical C-liner) in June 2002.  Stands to reason that if the jade/script were applied to the locomotive it might have been done as part of that shopping, or soon afterward.

Now, you know, I wondered long ago why there was no attempt to put a turbocharged 645 into one of those CPA-24-5s, as there was both the weight-bearing and cooling to support one.  Just as it makes little sense to use a Roots-blown 16-cylinder in a passenger engine, it would make sense to replace both the OP engine and Westinghouse generator with a 'unit' from EMD, but perhaps retain the Westinghouse motors... and this would give precisely the sort of single-unit power that a modern GP40 might represent... the 'point to ponder' being that such an experiment would be a perfect application of the 'new and improved' paint scheme.  (And if it were in the works, but never came off, it would explain why there was supposed to be a jade-and-script unit that never quite made it mechanically to be sent to the paint shop...)

I have seen a picture of one (more or less derelict by that time) in Erie, in five-stripe lightning gray, dated March 1967.

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, August 23, 2019 12:04 PM

So perhaps a myth based on a paper or verbal order that occurred but never implemented. Hard to believe if it was real that no pic exists for something that would stand out so prominently.

Derelict in '67 in Cleveland you say. Another lost chance at preservation. CPR was happily running their fleet with NDG aboard somewhere in the mountains. 

Be easy to paint one up in any scale model to sort of see what it looks like, or photoshop a real one just for the heck of it. 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, August 23, 2019 1:15 PM

Miningman
Be easy to paint one up in any scale model to sort of see what it looks like, or photoshop a real one just for the heck of it. 

The astounding thing to me being that no one, at Moldover's site or elsewhere, appears to have even tried.

Here ya go, kiddo:

http://paintshop.railfan.net/images/belanger/cpa-24-5.html

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Posted by 16-567D3A on Friday, August 23, 2019 7:25 PM

Thank you Firelock for the link and photos. Miningman, Overmod for your informitive input answers and research on the subject. I checked a copy of the book New York Central System Diesel locomotives by William D.Edson Chief Mechanical Engineer NYC System 1965-1968. The only reference to the century green units in the book is a photo of E8A 4053 and E7A 4107 on page 183 and that it was unusual and short lived. I sent an email to two aquaintences who are members of The ACL-SAL Historical society of which i am also a member.and both have knoweldge and interest in the NYC.One response was he had never heard that or seen a photo and thought 1960 was too late to use the Script hearald which he had only seen used in photos on the Train X locomotive and some use on the cab sides of a few switchers and a handful of early green boxcar repaints.The other response was that he had heard the story more than three Es got the green paint but only Es and had never seen any photos except of the three known units and would question painting green of a third string C liner .i try to be accurate in my postings  and i apologize to all for repeating and posting what was unsubstatiated and that i should have better researched first to maintain credibility.

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, August 23, 2019 9:25 PM

You're welcom Mr. 567!  That URHS website looks interesting, I haven't gone through the whole thing yet but will when the opportunity permits.

We're nowhere near Strasburg, so won't be seeing 611.  We ARE going to the Greenberg Train Show in Oaks PA tomorrow which is right "next door" to the hotel, then back over to Stephanie's to attack more bushes.  Good Lord, have any ove you tried to remove 50 year old juniper bushes?  I dulled one chainsaw blade chain already!  Not as much fun as I thought it was going to be, and that's putting it mildly!

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Saturday, August 31, 2019 3:31 PM
FYI.
 
Great Information!
 
 
Thank You.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, August 31, 2019 4:34 PM

You're welcome NDG!

URHS has some good stuff, don't they?  Much more than I thought they did.  

They do have open houses from time to time but unfortunately none have coincided with my visits up north, at least not yet.

By the way, I suppose the title "Green Hats" for ex-NYC personnel during the in-house Penn-Central dogfights came from that short-lived "Jade Green" paint scheme, which was also applied to some cabooses and other rolling stock.  The ex-Pennsy people were called "Red Hats."  Two different companys with two different cultures, no wonder they couldn't get along.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 31, 2019 9:44 PM

Flintlock76
By the way, I suppose the title "Green Hats" for ex-NYC personnel during the in-house Penn-Central dogfights came from that short-lived "Jade Green" paint scheme, which was also applied to some cabooses and other rolling stock

Pretty sure it would have been either Brewster Green or Pacemaker Green, although the jade/pea green became well-established in the 1960s.

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