Some Random Classic Pics perhaps worthy of Discussion

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 18, 2020 8:19 AM

Miningman
Catenary coming down anywhere is short sighted and backwards. 

Certainly NOT in Cleveland.  The double engine change added cost and aggravation, even if it did simplify run-through fueling for engines to the east and west of the electrified section.  Note that the true fast trains had to be routed via the lakefront line as they couldn't afford the delay to do it smoothly for sleeping passengers twice, and steam power couldn't transit the Terminal Tower complex.

With the introduction of dieseliners, this problem goes away.  Bingo! instant 15-minute or more reduction of time possible, fewer costs, less overhead... no issues balancing or assuring run-through power.

Meanwhile NYC indeed WAS considering extended main line electrification ... but not on 3000VDC.  And of course no application for it in the Park Avenue tunnels (we would be renaming it Spark Avenue in no time!) so ... no use for catenary as built in Cleveland.

That the motors themselves were extraordinary can be easily shown by their long life as rebuilt.  I saw no other electric power on Amtrak or other conventional PC trains at Harmon any time in the early '70s (there were FL-9 trains but they invariably departed southbound under typically asthmatic diesel power).

I was certain they were keeping the one in 'lightning stripe' for preservation, as it hung around for so long; I still can't quite believe they are all gone...

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 18, 2020 11:29 AM

Well then how about this as a reasonable and not too far fetched alternate take.

After WWII the USA and Canadian Governments agree to electrify all railroad main and major branch lines, gratis, free of charge, complete and total, power stations and all. This as a reward and recognition for the Herculean effort provided in winning the war. Also in the best interest of both nations, an eye to the future and national security. 

Also included is a major upgrade in Interurbans and Streetcar lines, a transformation from rickety shoestring operations to world leading cutting edge services and equipment. Also very much in the national interest and a terrific investment in the future. 

General Electric and Westinghouse and minor players would benefit. EMD would not dominate the market and the steam builders, no strangers to electrics, such as Baldwin, would be on an even par. 

Keep steam on a retreating basis as the new system was built, maybe 10 years. 

Smaller branch lines and yards would remain the stronghold of Diesel switchers of which everyone built a good one. This also avoids complicated and rather ugly catenary situations. 

That could have happened and perhaps should have happened. Maybe those P-1a's may still be in use today. 

I know pie in the sky but we would be better off today.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, January 18, 2020 1:15 PM

Miningman

#2  Sticking with the elevated, here's an interesting perspective on the operation, from its security guards on high.

One of my top three time travel destinations, the Art Deco paradise that is long gone; there were the terminals of American's best crack trains and ocean liners, vintage elevator that took people to the top of the World, extinct historical cuisines inside or outside the dining car; home of legendary musician, writer, and entrepreneur; the capital of everything that you don't want to miss... (except those negative things that you could find in this article: http://lifewithoutbuildings.net/2013/12/design-decoded-traveling-in-style-and-comfort-the-pullman-sleeping-car.html)

 

Miningman
#3  Along the Reading.  The rather oddly named Phoenixville sports a beautiful station.  Research has told me that the towers are gone but the main part remains, however, not railroad related any longer.

 A History of Rail in Phoenixville:

Phoenixville Mayor Peter Urscheler has been working on bringing back the rail service to Phoenixville. An article from April 2019: 

https://www.pottsmerc.com/news/phoenixville-hosting-rail-service-town-hall-on-monday/article_c61edfd4-6147-11e9-aae1-9f132a03942d.html

 

Miningman
4)  Another pleasant scene.  I could hang out here on a nice spring day even if nothing was happening.  Virginian electrics and a Trainmaster. Not bad. 

That Virginian EL-2B on the right-hand side missing one truck!

Miningman
6)  Another look at those Canadian Pacific Dome cars , 40 years before Dome cars!  

 CP also had "sunbathing car" like this:

Miningman
8) What's your Slumber Number? 

 

2046

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, January 18, 2020 1:34 PM

CN and CP both ran open-air observation cars well into the 1960s.

599 (ex 1424) one of three 96 seat mountain observation cars (597-599) converted 1956 to replace older cars.
These cars were used on The Dominion and The Mountaineer between Calgary and Vancouver.
Vancouver August 26, 1962 Walter E. Frost/City of Vancouver Archives
 
 
Edmonton, AB coach yard, 1969:
 
110261: Edmonton AB CN Edmonton City Yard Car 15097

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 18, 2020 1:40 PM

Phoenixville!  I know where that  is, I've been there!  Just down the road a bit from Valley Forge National Park.  Those were Reading tracks, now they're Norfolk-Southern.

I'm sure most of you have figured it out already, but the name Phoenixville comes from the Phoenix Iron Company.  

Yes, the old Reading station is still there.  The last time I saw it it was a restaurant-brew pub-sports bar.  Or something similar.  Anything but a train station.   

Nice, interesting old town is Phoenixville.  Here's the historical society website...

https://www.hspa-pa.org  

And for the story of the "Griffen Gun," otherwise know as the US Three Inch Ordnance Rifle made by the Phoenix Iron Works during the Civil War...

https://www.hspa-pa.org/picture_gallery_griffengun.html  

A good piece of gear, that Griffen gun.  None were known to fail, that is crack open or blow up during the war years, and many stayed in service until the 1890's.  In fact they were so strong many were used in breechloader conversion experiments. 

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Posted by AgentKid on Saturday, January 18, 2020 5:46 PM

Miningman
Not railroad but Classic .. Sweet Caps are long gone

I enjoyed seeing that.

There was a time in Canada when there was price variation in cigarettes. Sweet Caps were the cheapest, except for single nickel ones.

I remember my uncle and Dad sitting around the kitchen table talking about how happy they were once they got good enough jobs that they could afford to no longer have to smoke Sweet Caps. Before my time, but I guess they were bad.

Did Americans ever have Export "A" or their brutal unfillterd counterparts, Export?

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 18, 2020 6:27 PM

American nasty export smokes?  Not that I'm aware of.  As a matter of fact if all those war movies I used to watch are to be believed people overseas were thrilled to get their hands on American cigarettes.  As I've heard plenty of times in the movies...

"Ach!  Amerikanische zigaretten!  Wunderbar!"  Or in some films...

"Ah-so!  Amelican zigalettes!"   

And I can tell you from first-hand experience  (A NATO operation in the 1970's) folks in Europe were still crazy about American cigarettes!  The troops were trading cartons of 'em to the locals for all kinds of stuff!  

And unless I'm mistaken filtered cigarettes didn't show up until the post-war era, prior to then they all were unfiltered. 

Certainly, brands have come and gone, for various reasons.  

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 18, 2020 8:06 PM

No no, Agent Kid means MacDonalds Corp Export 'A' and Export. Long time sponsors of the curling championship The Briar, named after their famous  tobacco. Also famous for the MacDonalds Girl logo, in her kilt. 

Pretty sure not available stateside, however, some fine tobacco shops did carry Players and Rothmans.

I have 3 packs of unopened non filter Export from 8 years ago, the last time you could buy them. They were a big time powerful smoke but very smooth.  Known widely as the 'green death'. Export 'A' is still available but all cigarettes up here must now be in plain packaging, all the same colour, no logos, a simple identifier, as is shown on the Export 'A' package. Social Engineers at work taking away freedoms.

After 85 years someone complained that the MacDonalds girl was too exploitive and sexist so they came up with just the face shot. There used to be huge billboards of her all over towns. Now she is gone completely. 

Sorry about all that chaps... here have a Quality Street.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, January 18, 2020 8:22 PM

I have seen Players and Rothman's in some tobacco shops down here, and I think  I've seen Quality Street candies in some high-end candy shops.

Lady Firestorm prefers the British Cadbury's when she can find them, but the regular American market Cadburys usually suit her just fine.  British Cadburys are one of the reasons she enjoyed trips to Newfoundland so much.

My late brother-in-law used to love those French Gitanes smokes, you know, the ones that smell like a burning rag pile?  Ick!

A question that has no answer, why  do tobacco shops smell so good, but burning tobacco never smells as good as the shop does?  

I've never seen MacDonalds Exports, that's a new one on me.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, January 18, 2020 8:23 PM

Miningman

Sorry about all that chaps... here have a Quality Street.

 

My top three favorites are "The Green Triangle", Toffee Penny, and Orange Chocolate Crunch. Coconut Eclair is great too. I can't remember the rest, just pick them randomly when I got a box of it... 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 18, 2020 8:29 PM

The Green Triangle, yes! So good! Luv the purple ' Hazelnut in Caramel' and the blue 'Coconut Eclair' but dang they are all good.

All boys in Canada grew up with this lassy. 

Store window sticker.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, January 19, 2020 6:32 PM

Reminds me of Black Label Mabel.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, January 19, 2020 6:50 PM

And here she is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUd6lYNc_EE  

Years back, a buddy and I drank Carling's Black Label all week long so we had a nice stock of those red cans for the weekend.  Why, you ask?

They made great targets for our muzzleloading rifles!  Redcoats 'ya know...Whistling

Ah, Miss MacDonald was a cutie!  I wonder if she's related to Mike?

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:43 PM

Lackawanna's Hoboken Terminal .. note the attention to detail. What a beautiful space.

 

2) It is truly remarkable how pictures turn out sometimes..this is way good!

 

3)  Definitely not the Broadway but why 2 cabeese, or 1 for that matter. I know it's a switching move... but a caboose is required?

 

4)  0-6-0's chugging through the streets of Vancouver, an everyday scene back in the day. I recall scenes like this is Hamilton, on Ferguson Ave downtown.

CPR train crossing Hastings at Carrall, 1932
Source: Photo by William Stark, City of Vancouver Archives #Can N32

CPR train crossing Hastings at Carrall, 1932

Source: Photo by William Stark, City of Vancouver Archives #Can N32

One more late addition: #5)

Assist up Sherman in 1957, a FEF and a Big Boy... interesting because we can do this very scene today ( doublestacks instead of reefers though)

   

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 3:18 PM

Let's take those photos seriatim...   

Photo 1.  Hoboken Terminal!  I was there back in the 90's for a C&O 614 excursion, Hoboken to Port Jervis, and it's an awesome place.  Even more so when you think of all the history there, and who came and went over the years.

For more than you'd ever want to know about Hoboken Terminal check this out, and scroll down for a nine page photo essay.  Click on the photos to enlarge.

http://www.subwaynut.com/njt/hoboken_terminal/index.php  

Photo 2.  Wow!  Looks more like a photo-realist school painting than a photo, and a spectacular one at that!

Photo 3.  Must be some kind of equipment move, from where they are to where they're needed, and look at the disparity in size between those two cabooses!

Photo 4.  Wow, street running.  It still exists in some parts of the country.

And Photo 5.  That must be one HELL of a long freight train if a Big Boy needs an assist!  

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 3:58 PM

The switcher/passenger car/cabooses shot is probably a yard transfer that has gathered up everything that needed to be moved at that particular time. 

Big Boys were originally designed to take a standard size train up grades without a helper, and then run with that same train at 60+ mph.  But there were not enough of them built to completely eliminate helper operations, and once put into service UP realized they were more capable than originally thought, and and increased their tonnage ratings. 

The heaviest train a Big Boy could haul on flatter territory would still require a helper on certain grades.

Or, perhaps the helper has been added to increase speed.  There was a epic photo in the magazine several years ago of a 4-8-4 storming out of a station while leading three yellow E-units on a passenger train.  The caption stated that the train was about one hour late (eek!), and the steam locomotive (with its extra crew) had been added to make up the time.  You sure don't see that kind of dedication anymore!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 8:30 PM

 

CPR train crossing Hastings at Carrall, 1932
Source: Photo by William Stark, City of Vancouver Archives #Can N32

 

Same location on Google.
 
 
FWIW.
 
Vancouver drove on LEFT side thru 1922.
 
 
As mentioned, it took time to convert streetcars and stops over.
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:28 PM

Looked better back in the day. Many interesting buildings are gone such as the Rex Theatre. The clock on the corner must be gone too. 

Did not know that Vancouver had left side driving. Keep your sword hand free I guess. 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:44 PM

Sweden hand driving on the left up until December 1967, even though the cars SAAB's and Volvo's were built with steering wheels on the left. Accident rate went down for a couple of weeks after the transistion as most people were cautious about driving on the other side of the road.

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:10 PM
Yes, so much has changed in the last 60 years.
 
When I was first on that corner with the CPR Switcher crossing over.
 
THIS was around the back.!!!!!!  Along with another.
 
 
 
Same view on Google.  Rails NOT original.
 
 
 
Interurbans once exited under building. The 0-6-0 would be to right.
 
 
 
 
0-6-0 would have been approaching this location. Steel being lifted.  Track Right has Trolley Wire. Cart left badged BCE Ry.
 
 
 
Lovely Data at this Site.
 
 

Thank You.

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Posted by AgentKid on Wednesday, January 22, 2020 12:37 PM

SD70Dude
The switcher/passenger car/cabooses shot is probably a yard transfer that has gathered up everything that needed to be moved at that particular time.

There are photos of CPR Passenger Trains west of Calgary with cabooses behind. During the peak summer season when both the Montreal and Toronto versions of "The Dominion" would have to be broken up into sections, and at the same time there was an imbalance of freight train crews at the far end of their trip, freight crews would work the passenger trains and bring their assigned cabooses home with them. This was quite common.

Freight crews would keep their passenger train uniforms with them. I saw this once even on the mixed train at Irricana when the conductor showed me his fancy hat he had in a cupboard in the caboose.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 25, 2020 9:06 PM

1).  Another paint scheme on the British Columbia Railway for its short lived 'Starlight' 1997-2002.   Also an newly introduced sister train the 2001 'Whistler Northwind'. I suppose you could claim they were predecessors to the Rocky Mountaineer.

 

So what happened to the equipment? Rotting away in Canon City, Colorado.

https://abandonedplaygrounds.com/2019/01/21/the-pacific-starlight-abandoned-dinner-trains/

 

2)  The Canadian National Exhibition, known as the CNE, is known for its spectacular entrances. Here is the very popular Dufferin Gate served by Streetcars.

Historic photo from Monday, November 16, 1942 - Dufferin Gates with fan, Exhibition Park in CNE

Dufferin Gates with fan, Exhibition Park

 


Busy factories bring better times!  

Historic photo from 1932 - Dufferin St. Gate - Busy Factories Bring Better Times - illuminated sign in CNE

 

Of course it's all too nice and good so we have to demolish it.

Historic photo from 1958 - Demolition of 1910 CNE Dufferin Gates in CNE Demolition of CNE Dufferin 

 

3).  Mess! Interurban mishap.  1952 near Racine Wisconsin on the North Shore.

 

4).  Lehigh Valley Rounhouse and Turntable. Corrected from earlier misidentification . Plenty of Camelbacks in view. Back when they knew what they were doing.  No Diesels, the invasion is yet to come.

Nice image. Busy place! Date and photographer unknown.

CNJ Roundhouse and Turntable

 

CNJ Roundhouse and Turntable

A turntable for the Central Railroad of New Jersey, 1961

 
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Posted by Backshop on Saturday, January 25, 2020 9:58 PM

Is that CNJ in Allentown?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, January 25, 2020 10:01 PM

Miningman

1).  Another paint scheme on the British Columbia Railway for its short lived 'Starlight' 1997-2002.   Also an newly introduced sister train the 2001 'Whistler Northbound'. I suppose you could claim they were predecessors to the Rocky Mountaineer.

 

So what happened to the equipment? Rotting away in Canon City, Colorado.

https://abandonedplaygrounds.com/2019/01/21/the-pacific-starlight-abandoned-dinner-trains/

Not northbound, Whistler Northwind:

http://www.trainweb.org/ultradomes/bcr/northwind.html

The glass-roofed cars were purchased by VIA Rail after the demise of all BC Rail passenger service, and were placed into service on the Skeena and Canadian (only between Vancouver and Edmonton).  VIA calls them "Panorama" cars. 

Most of those CAT-engined RS-18 rebuilds were sold to a scrapper by CN after the takeover.  The scrapper then arranged to lease site space at the Alberta Railway Museum to cut them up.  We never owned them, but were able to scavenge quite a few useful parts from them (this was before I started volunteering). 

http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=8308

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 25, 2020 10:55 PM

Thanks Dude... Freudian slip...fixed it! 

Backshop-- not sure but our resident Jersey nuts will know.. Overmod or Flintlock.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:04 PM

Backshop and all! I have heard from Mike on the Roundhouse. It appears that is not CNJ at all but Lehigh Valley in the 30's. 


"Vintage photos of the Lehigh Valley Railroad" 
"A roundhouse services trains in West Bethlehem in the late 1930s"
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:49 PM

I could be wrong, but there's a tourist railroad at Canyon City (I don't have the means to accent the "n" Spanish style.  Sorry) and I'm guessing they bought those cars, and then didn't know what to do with 'em.  Sad.

Impressive, that Lehigh Valley roundhouse!  My, my, what was, and is no more.  What happened?

OK I know what happened.  But what happened?  Bang Head

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, January 26, 2020 10:01 PM

What happened?  Big Oil, Big Auto, Big Rubber, the military-industrial complex, buy now pay later, woe to those who don't play along and do their bidding.  

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, January 27, 2020 8:59 AM

The roundhouse story sort of thickens. Apparently the CNJ had a Roundhouse very similar nearby in Allentown. 

Even Mike is not 100% convinced it's Lehigh Valley. Perhaps someone could identify a very specific locomotive type. There are many Camelbacks. I count 40 steam locomotives of various types in the photo.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, January 27, 2020 10:32 AM

It's the Jersey Central roundhouse.

I got aggressive on enlarging the image, went up to 225%, and in the lower left hand corner of the image there's a Camelback with the "Statue of Liberty" herald on the tender, and just to its left (our right) there's a large locomotive with what looks like "Reading" lettering on the tender.  The Reading did use that CNJ facility.

And good Lord, all those Camelbacks!  The place is swarming with them!  Only the CNJ had that many Camels at that late date, post-1945.

And continuing the the Jersey Central vein, I found some short "teaser" videos of the CNJ operations in Pennsylvania.  They're commercials for John Pechulis videos but interesting just the same.  Volumes 1, 3, and 4 of "Along the Jersey Central."  Volume 4 has footage of the Ashley Planes!

Volume 2 covers operations around Elizabeth and that part of Jersey, not germanine to this discussion, so I left that one out.  Here you go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BfIILYpsD8  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttYCM_A-6D4  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzLmdKl5E4  

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