Some Random Classic Pics perhaps worthy of Discussion

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, December 25, 2019 10:57 AM

I always loved the look of the front end of the Electroliner, it reminds me of Gort the Robot from "The Day The Earth Stood Still," the GOOD one, from 1951.

Check him out...

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/n3Pd4  

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, December 25, 2019 12:18 PM

... don't think we can get the real deal and very famous Electroburger... food just is same , maybe come close but all the little [nuances] have vanished.

Actually this is one area where the world has blossomed, compellingly, over the years and especially in the last few.  Both the cuts of beef needed to produce the 'best' beef and the correct mix of them to produce the best burger are well-understood and reasonably documented.  I'm sure enough historical commissary information exists to replicate the make of the patties used ... but I'd also bet it was commodity burger meat for the '40s, and much of the taste was in the experience -- much like my beloved 'Am and cheese' sandwich with double the mustard and tall cup full of pebbled ice to decant my red can of Coke, drunk in a parlor chair at 80mph going through Elizabeth on a southbound Clocker...

But we have MUCH better meat, and buns, and condiments.  Look at the Allen Brothers ad you've probably already been pushed by Kalmbach -- there's a growing trend towards wagyu as a burger meat, and it's a form of heaven.

Meanwhile, the grill is just the well-known iron slab heated from below by elements driven by traction power.  No complex tinkering needed to make one (I have two much larger suitable slabs in storage, salvaged from Waffle House renovations with permission) and of course the care and feeding of the things and the paraphernalia (stones and screens and scrapers) to care for them is not only a conserved skill but a historically traceable one.  

Perhaps the best part is that we can build a better burger than what the North Shore provided, and establish a new Electroburger tradition for new generations rediscovering the fascination.

Care to expand a bit on that Memphis situation?

Memphis built a 'Main Street Trolley' at great cost, then a riverfront loop involving one of the two tracks of the old IC line to Central Station and a branch extension to the medical center on Cleveland. Now, there is a NS freight branch that goes right under that extension, easily reachable (by traction) via a couple of switches and a ramp... as I recall it is actually one of the first railroads in Tennessee, and it points right toward the airport with grade separation for a substantial part of the way.  This was a rational basis for high-speed transit from downtown, via satellite parking, to a sensible transfer station for airport shuttles if not actual terminal stops.

Now to operate this we needed a high speed train suitable for negotiating sharp curves.  The choice was obvious even before the 'opportunity' of running the loop at lunchtime with Elliott's-catered burgers finished on the famous grill and plunge-cooked as an alternative.  I went to Rockhill, got permission from the board there, got estimates for moving (it helped of course that it had been done before, to get it TO Rockhill which is not exactly easily accessible by standard-gauge rail) and sat back to await the politics.

Which ran off the rails on the innocuous, and not unimportant, priority of who would be served by a trolley to the airport -- we've had this discussion with the diesel line out to Pearson.  Airport workers with no cars need mass transit that comes reasonably near them.  To shorten a long and expensive story ... the final alternative chosen would have gone down a couple of well-trafficked streets with truly heroic grade-separation, taken 45 minutes and a fair amount of stopping and starting to wend its way to... well, somewhere close enough to shuttle the employees around to where passengers can't go ... security not permitting trolleys up to the terminals without inspection, ya know, and ... wait for it because they presented it with a straight face and so we should strive to listen to it ... been ours for a mere $4.2 billion.

The 'Liberty Liner' still resides safely in Pennsylvania, still optioned for a fair price, with opportunity still knocking.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, December 25, 2019 12:52 PM

Well thank you for the Memphis explanation. 4.2 Billion? Like 4 thousand millions and a fifth of another one? Geez. For that kind of moolah it should come with a newly built NYC streamlined Hudson, a T1 and 7 full consists of faithfully recreated 20th Century fame. 

As to the food situation... you're right and I'm right. If I could take you in my time machine to, let's say, 1964, and enjoy a pizza at PeeWees in Burlington, Ontario you would definitely say " what the hell happened". I don't even think you can get Pepperoni like that anywhere any longer. All of those ingredients have been 'cheapened' and substituted. 

Try getting fish and chips that serve Halibut, instead of Haddock or Pollack or some pressed 'fish' combo thing. 

 

Meanwhile:

Ladies and Gentlemen ... The Electroliners!!!
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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:29 PM

 

1) This is out where SD70DUDE lives. 

The following info was written along with the picture in 2009. Is this still true ?

Not only is it the world’s longest and highest railway trestle, but it may be the toughest, too. There are no restrictions on the length or weight of the mile-long freight trains that roll across the Lethbridge Viaduct a dozen times a day, even though the bridge was built 1907-09.

 

2). For some strange reason it's not all that often we see the C&EI in colour.  I'm not even sure some railfans know what their colour scheme was.

 

3)  Rock Island fan trip using WWII troop carriers. You know the new look 'Rock' wasn't a bad image at all.  At least they tried, a valiant but vain effort. 

In the photo they have stopped for lunch at Weatherford, Oklahoma.

 

4)  Overhead view of Buffalo Central Terminal.  Looking kind of rough, it's past glory is gone.

 

5)  Milwaukee Bi-Polar.  Amazing how big that really was.

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, January 5, 2020 10:25 PM

Miningman
Not only is it the world’s longest and highest railway trestle,

A google search shows there is a railway bridge in China more than 100 miles long.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, January 5, 2020 10:33 PM

That description was written in 2009, so it might not be correct anymore.   Wow a hundred miles! 

I have gone back and questioned the information with an edit.

I also question the claim about no restrictions. Is that still true? 

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Posted by M636C on Monday, January 6, 2020 1:08 AM

2). For some strange reason it's not all that often we see the C&EI in colour.  I'm not even sure some railfans know what their colour scheme was.

 

 

 

4)  Overhead view of Buffalo Central Terminal.  Looking kind of rough, it's past glory is gone.

 

In the Chicago view, the sleeping car just behind the C&EI locomotives is a Pullman built Duplex Roomette car. Good photos of these are rare. In Some Classic Trains, Dubin illustrates a conventional roomette car, apparently rebuilt from one of these around 1956, since the two level arrangement was not popular. These should not be confused with the Budd-built Slumbercoaches which looked generally similar. There is an HO model (not particularly good) sold by IHC that I think represents these cars. Note the gap in the fluting above the windows, where the words "Santa Fe" jostle with the upper level windows for space....

I assume the walkway from the Buffalo station to the platforms was removed to provide double stack clearance on the remaining main line tracks.

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, January 6, 2020 6:42 AM

There is a reasonably good book by Alex Johnston that describes construction of the Lethbridge Viaduct.  The basic design is by the guy who designed the Spiral Tunnel arrangement, and the consulting engineer was one of the designers of the Starue of Liberty framing, and a chief critic of the first Quebec Bridge fiasco.

Worth reading (and seeing pictures of!) the erection-traveler setup, and compare this with the construction of the Kinzua viaduct.  You may better understand the multiple-level platform arrangement to construct the bents if you appreciate the considerable winds this location has.  Compare this with the equipment designed only about a quarter-century earlier to speed construction of elevated railroads in New York.

I cannot find a Cooper rating for this bridge but I doubt there is any practical restriction for diesels that would pose a critical restriction, or a reason to restrict speed for structural more than crosswind-related reasons.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 6, 2020 6:51 AM

The Santa Fe's twelve "Indian" plan 4100B 24 duplex roomette sleepers were initially used on the "Chief" and secondary trains for overnight runs such as between Chicago and Kansas City.  Built in 1947, they never really found a niche in Santa Fe's system.  All twelve were rebuilt in 1964 into 11 Double Bedroom cars, keeping their names.  Some of the work may have been done by Santa Fe at Topeka - unusual for Pullman-operated equipment, giving them a new plan number 6007A.  Assigned to the Super Chief, eleven of them ended up in the Amtrak fleet. Not among the fleet converted to HEP, they became surplus when the Superliners arrived.  Some of them ended up with Ringling Brothers.

Pullman's own Duplex Roomette I (later "L.S. Hungerford", NdeM "Paricutin") and CN's "I" series built by CCF make up all of the rest.

The near end of the Buffalo Central Terminal concourse was removed to make room for trilevel auto racks, but the opening works just fine for double-stacks.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 6, 2020 8:07 AM

Ah, yes, "Indian Canoe." My wife and children slept in that car one night as we went from Albuquerque to Chicago in 1973. It wasn't crowded at all.

Johnny

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, January 6, 2020 6:57 PM

Miningman
3) Rock Island fan trip using WWII troop carriers. You know the new look 'Rock' wasn't a bad image at all.

That pic puts me in the mind of something other than a fan trip.  It looks more like it was headed for THE  rock with inmates rather than railfans.  Not quite the fan trip consist we've come to expect!  Wink  Still, it would have been very interresting to ride in those cars!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, January 6, 2020 8:09 PM

Penny-- You got a point there. Maybe they missed out on a business opportunity. You've heard of the 'walk of shame' or the 'perp walk', well this could be the 'Train of travesties' and the 'perp express'. 

Anyway in the photo they stopped for burgers and sandwichs providing a good photo opportunity. 

M636C--- Good eye!  The fluting along the top looks ridiculous. What a faux pas that was. Cringeworthy. 

Also I cannot even imagine the utter collapse of such an important and magical crossroads for switching, servicing and transfer of through passenger trains and yet collapse in did. It degraded into contempt. Could you imagine explaining that to someone in 1948, then to another generation in 2008. I think you would come across as the court jester in medieval times. To sever the walkway to the platforms is way beyond contempt. Ludicrous.  Yet here we are. 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Monday, January 6, 2020 9:36 PM

 

1) This is out where SD70DUDE lives. 

The following info was written along with the picture in 2009. Is this still true ?

Not only is it the world’s longest and highest railway trestle, but it may be the toughest, too. There are no restrictions on the length or weight of the mile-long freight trains that roll across the Lethbridge Viaduct a dozen times a day, even though the bridge was built 1907-09.

 

FWIW.
 
CP 4105 heading East to Lethbridge on Viaduct.
 
 
CP 4105 had S/G and Water Tank, Filler in Skirt, until Scrapped.
 
 
Push Button on Throttle end, when depressed, allowed Handle to be moved one more Notch to ' Shut Down ' Position.
 
 
At Base Pier 8 from East End, downstream side, a 39 foot rail protrudes from ground.
 
Apparently it was dropped during Construction and lanced into ground.
 
 
Watch out for Rattlesnakes and Cactus!!. Time 1:40.
 
 
Mine Headframe background in video, here, centre. Viaduct to right.
 
 
House w Snake, Here.
 
 
 
Mine Headframe Snake Video.
 
 
 
Lethbridge Streetcar Carbody. Galt Museum.
 
 

Thank You.

Both Buffalo and Detroit have changed in the last 50 years.

 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, January 6, 2020 10:00 PM

Thank you NDG. Had no idea Lethbridge had Streetcars. Quite a surprise. 

More pics from the Rock Island fan trip : these from Mike

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Posted by AgentKid on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 4:21 PM

Quickly from memory:

Lethbridge Viaduct is the "highest-longest" bridge of that type in the world. There are higher bridges or longer bridges. I never knew who figured that stuff out.

40 feet more than a mile long and 315 feet high. Dead straight so no permanent slow order.

Just west of former Lethbridge Station. WB passenger trains would lift from the station and when the tail end cleared the bridge 60 MPH was showing on the speedometer.

It has been said train crew men would spend their entire careers going over that bridge and not actually look down.

IMHO there are no good pictures of the bridge taken from the ground, as it is simply too big. When TRAINS used to run their photo contests, one fellow entered a picture taken from a helicopter. That is really the only way to show a train on the bridge and do it justice.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 5:47 PM

Miningman

1) This is out where SD70DUDE lives. 

The following info was written along with the picture in 2009. Is this still true ?

Not only is it the world’s longest and highest railway trestle, but it may be the toughest, too. There are no restrictions on the length or weight of the mile-long freight trains that roll across the Lethbridge Viaduct a dozen times a day, even though the bridge was built 1907-09.

Right Province, but multiple other forum members are closer than I by hundreds of kilometres (Alberta's a really big place).  It would actually be faster for me to drive to Saskatoon than to Lethbridge.

The info looks correct to me, those early 1900s-vintage steel railway bridges are quite overbuilt, able to handle loads far in excess of what existed when they were built.

Great stories from NDG and Bruce.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 5:51 PM

NDG
FWIW.
 
CP 4105 heading East to Lethbridge on Viaduct.
 
 
CP 4105 had S/G and Water Tank, Filler in Skirt, until Scrapped.
 
 
Push Button on Throttle end, when depressed, allowed Handle to be moved one more Notch to ' Shut Down ' Position.
 
 
At Base Pier 8 from East End, downstream side, a 39 foot rail protrudes from ground.
 
Apparently it was dropped during Construction and lanced into ground.
 
 
Watch out for Rattlesnakes and Cactus!!. Time 1:40.
 
 
Mine Headframe background in video, here, centre. Viaduct to right.
 
 
House w Snake, Here.
 
 
 
Mine Headframe Snake Video.
 
 
 
Lethbridge Streetcar Carbody. Galt Museum.
 
 

Thank You.

Both Buffalo and Detroit have changed in the last 50 years.

It is very easy to forget that Canada has deserts.  And venomous snakes!

EMD units with the barrel control stand had the same kind of throttle handle.  On modern units you pull out on the handle and then you are able to push it past idle to the shutdown position.  Doing so will shut down all the engines in a consist if the jumper cables are connected.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 6:06 PM

Well I meant that for our US cousins. You're a lot closer than Memphis or New Orleans or the Big Apple. 

Heres a bonus picture for you.

 

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 10:18 AM

Also consider that El Paso is closer to San Diego than it is to Houston.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, January 10, 2020 6:50 PM

Miningman

Well I meant that for our US cousins. You're a lot closer than Memphis or New Orleans or the Big Apple. 

Heres a bonus picture for you.

I've been thinking a lot about this photo, which I have not seen before, and in the absence of other information I believe it was taken on the curve at the east end of our current Museum trackage, sometime after 1979 based on the fact that the engine is facing east.  The other equipment appears to be one of our outfit cars and CN combine 7379.  We have never had a wye or turntable, and 73 initially faced west when our equipment was moved to the site in 1976, and the only opportunity for her to be turned would have been when she was used in the Northern Alberta Railway's 50th anniversary train during the summer of 1979. 

73 was not steamed while on that train due to boiler problems that have yet to be repaired.  Sometime after returning to the Museum 73 was test fired in an attempt to diagnose the boiler problems.  During that test something (probably a tube) inside the firebox or boiler burst, and it is very lucky that no one in the cab was seriously injured. 

So, this photo may actually be from the last day that 73 was hot, if those clouds in the photo are indeed steam and not just smudges. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 10, 2020 7:31 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Also consider that El Paso is closer to San Diego than it is to Houston.

And if I remember correctly, El Paso is further away than Chicago is to Houston...

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, January 10, 2020 8:14 PM

SD70DUDE--- The photo says Cromdale Nov 11,1967 but the file contains errors. 

I sent you an 2 email's with a copy and links.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, January 10, 2020 8:29 PM

Yes, I see that now.

http://www.apraarchives.net/collection/index.php/Detail/objects/9489#

The date is probably correct, and that photo was taken at Cromdale, judging from the other stuff I can see in the background in the higher resolution image.

73 was saved from scrap in 1964 and first steamed in 1967.  So instead of my earlier speculation that this was her last time being steamed, it might be the first time after being preserved.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, January 10, 2020 11:13 PM

Here's another one for the Dude and hopefully everyone else. A picture anyone can find magical in its own way. The Canadian Northern 111 years ago, in Zealandia, Saskatchewan. 4 large grain elevators visible and rows of box cars. Not sure what the loco is but maybe a 4-4-0 or a Mogul. 

Wouldn't it be something to be trackside and watch the grain rush happen back then. 

 Even the name Zealandia seems a bit magical. 

Population in 2016...80 souls

Notable: Aldon Wilkie, from Zealandia, was a Major League Pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Today:  Main Street

Main Street 

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:55 PM

Tough, tough railroading on grain spotters back then.  Work every little town for 100+ miles, usually spotting multiple elevators or spurs at each one.  Lots of walking over the top in terrible weather, darkness or both, and all the handbrakes are stemwinders.  Only a small oil lantern to see by, and woe betide the Brakeman who spotted the cars on the wrong side of the elevator.  The engine would have to be watered more than once enroute, and possibly coaled as well if the train was heavy. 

Could take 12+ hours to make the run.  On 60 lb rail atop untreated ties and no ballast worth speaking of, this being the Canadian Northern, a true pioneer road that spared every possible expense.

Amazing the transformation that has taken place in 30 years, the Canadian prairie has gone from a wild plain full of Bison, Elk, Wolves and Grizzly Bears, to neat grids of farmland as far as the eye can see.  The only Natives left are now on reserves, and the memories of Riel's Rebellion (the last war fought on Canadian soil) are still fresh. 

But it would be magical indeed to step back in time for a day, to see our modern world rising from the old.  Savour the smell of prairie coal smoke (watch out for all the cinders!) and watch that pioneer engine struggle to lift its train.  Maybe it's a mixed, with a combine and caboose on the tail end, and we can hitch a ride to Kindersley. 

I hope Eaton's used soft paper in their catalogues....

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Saturday, January 11, 2020 4:24 PM
Winter, The Enemy that never rests.
 
And the WIND, and the constant minus 30 F,  the SNOW drifted like IRON in the Points and the air hoses solid, leaking at the glad hands
 
Set Off 100 empties one way, Pick up loads to Tons, returning depending on the Subdivision.
 
Water towers frozen.
 
Water frozen in Caboose in Morning. Still dark, Wind rattling the windows and shaking the car.
 
Hot boxes and bearings 'cause the oil was almost solid and would not flow.
 
Fusees a friend, for warmth, not light.
 
Minus 30 w the wind has to be experienced.
 
No Radios, Blowing snow, 3 cars visibility.
 
Walking backwards cause can't breathe facing.
 
 
 
 
Think Mosquitoes in Summer.
 
Pension DESERVED @ 65, when it comes.
 
Thank You.
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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, January 11, 2020 6:29 PM

NDG
Minus 30 w the wind has to be experienced.

Not at all far from the American 30-30-30 rule.

If it's 30 below zero (F) and the wind is blowing 30mph, human flesh freezes solid in 30 seconds...

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 11, 2020 7:29 PM

We've pretty much had that 30-30-30 since last Monday and for the foreseeable next 10 days. Worse we received a mountain of snow....just a nasty winter, oops I mean global warming/climate change. 

Meanwhile : Comments are very welcome .. hope Overmod has something to say about #1 

1)  Now that's some claim(s) ... are they stretching it a bit here?

 

#2  This looks like my kitchen over Christmas but without the help.  That's a lot of food. Actually a lot to look at here... 2 fellas from the shop working on the car, the E unit, heavyweights, the famous bridge and the trains marker .. Santa Fe was renown for its fine food offerings.

 

3) Sticking with Santa Fe... we've been discussing their shortlived but rather infamous brush with articulation.  Big beast .. did not pan out very well.

 

4)  You know you can crow about the big stuff, the experimental locos, and the glamour of Pennsy forever but this little fella is pretty darn spiffy. It is reminiscent of a tug-boat to me. Tough old salty.

5) And the race is on. Pride on the outside, heartache on the inside and the winner loses all, which sadly they did.

 

6)  NYO&W running Camelbacks back to back. Say that fast 7 times. An interesting train though.

 

7)  If only this baggage car came with an account of its many journeys. At one time it was new and a source of company pride. 

 

8) Not railroad but interesting in a Classic sense.  An electro-mechanical scoreboard 1912 for baseball games in Washington, DC. 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Saturday, January 11, 2020 10:40 PM

For #1, all three claims are true. The "Turbomotives" used a power plant style water tube boiler, had dynamic brakes where the resistors were used to heat the boiler and were equipped with M.U. controls.

For #3, the 2-10-10-2's were notorious for steam leaks.N.B. THey starred in an installment of the "Hazards of Helen" serial, with this being covered in the June 1967 Trains.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:50 AM

Interesting photos there, all with a story.

Photo 1.  Well, we all know that steam turbine turned out to be a flop, for what reasons I don't know, maybe Overmod can tell us.

Photo 2.  Oh yeah, the Santa Fe was renowned for its good eats, all under the supervision of the Fred Harvey organization.  It kepts passengers coming back time and time again, until they stopped coming.

Photo 3.  Remember what I've said about "If it looks good it'll run good?"  One picture's worth a thousand words, that thing looks just plain dumb!

Photo 4.  Those little Pennsy 0-4-0's were quite the workhorses!  Built for use around industries and warehouse districts with tight confines they more than got the job done.  I wouldn't mind having one to play with myself!  

Photo 5.  I wonder who won that drag race?  I'm betting on the T-1!

Photo 6.  That's a puzzler.  I suspect one of those Camels must be dead-in-tow.

Photo 7.   Looks like there's a steam tender in front.  I wonder if that's at a museum site?  Someone needs to get busy with a can of Rustoleum at any rate.

Photo 8.   The Washington Post electro-mechanical scoreboard.  Irony of ironys, if what I've read is true 100 years after that photo was taken the only thing keeping the Washington Post's printed edition alive is the sports section.  The same goes for a lot of other newspapers.  

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