Some Random Classic Pics perhaps worthy of Discussion

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 15, 2019 6:41 AM

MidlandMike

Is the CUT viaduct across the river still used for anything?

 

It's still used for the Red Line to the Airport.  Four track ROW, only two north (RTA) tracks remain.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, November 15, 2019 11:54 AM

Penny Trains

This is the west approach showing the CUT viaduct with it's catenary fanning out into the coach yards.

Now, if you reallywant a top down view...

Construction train.  I assume these switchers were owned by the construction company but since the CUT was part owned by the New York Central they may have belonged to them.

 

Amazing view! I just realize that the Terminal Tower was even taller than the Chicago Board of Trade Building in terms of roof height, highest occupied floor and pinnacle height when built! Both towers were built during the Great Depression, the citizens of Cleveland probably had no mood to celebrate its completion.

The proposed 1450ft, 100-floor Metropolitan Life Insurance North Building in New York, my favorite "never finish" skyscraper was another victim of the Great Depression. It would have been awesome if it was built above the New York Penn Station instead of Madison Avenue & 25th Street.

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, November 15, 2019 4:29 PM

1) Here's a pic that, despite Diesels, will make Flintlock 'pine for the days when'.  The Erie crossing Starrucca with the Erie Limited in resplendent shades of green  Very heavy with the Mail and Express, business looks good.

2) Canadian Pacific always always always kept their steam looking top notch, even the lowly little ancient stuff.  4-6-0 #424, a D4g, in Ottawa, 1956

 

3) Nice nice, maybe one of the better paint schemes on a RS2. 

D&M RS-2 466 was the first RS-2, built in 1946. After some 40+ years of service on the D&M it was sold to the Tuscola & Saginaw Bay and then to the Michigan Southern. Sadly I believe this very historic locomotive was scrapped in 2011. Unknown photographer.

 

4) A Schnabel Car... just because, they are so magnificient! We don't talk about Schnabels enough!

5)  A bridge that SD70DUDE would be familiar with, at least historically.  How would you like to be the engineer back in the day, crossing in high winds and snow with a couple of hundred people in the coaches your locomotive is pulling. Yikes! Between Edmonton and Calgary. 

One last parting look at CPR station in Goderich, Ontario. It was not demolished but it has been moved and is now a restaurant. 

 

 

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, November 15, 2019 7:28 PM

Miningman
5) A bridge that SD70DUDE would be familiar with, at least historically. How would you like to be the engineer back in the day, crossing in high winds and snow with a couple of hundred people in the coaches your locomotive is pulling. Yikes! Between Edmonton and Calgary.

How about the brakemen?  Jumping from car to car with a brake club in hand in a raging blizzard!  Tongue Tied  Yikes!

I'm glad it was saved but I would have loved to live in it right where it was!  Wink

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, November 15, 2019 7:47 PM

Jones1945
Amazing view!

The river view is enhanced a bit because of the fact that the terminal complex is about 90 feet above river level:

That's the 3,112 foot long Detroit Superior bridge which had Cleveland's subway tracks on it's lower level.  I took this pic in 1993 shortly before it was renovated.  If you look carefully you can see the CUT now RTA Cuyahoga Viaduct and one of it's distinctive catenary bridges through the arches.  You can also see the Rockefeller Building peeking through the tree on the left edge.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, November 15, 2019 8:12 PM

rcdrye

 

 
MidlandMike

Is the CUT viaduct across the river still used for anything?

 

 

 

It's still used for the Red Line to the Airport.  Four track ROW, only two north (RTA) tracks remain.

 

 

Some Cleveland Plain Dealer photos:

It's about to become the "Red Line Greenway": https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/about/cleveland-metroparks-organization/planning/re-connecting-cleveland-tiger-grant-project/red-line-greenway

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, November 15, 2019 9:44 PM

I wonder how high that bridge is above the Cuyhahoga River?  It does not look like it would clear a Great Lake boat.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, November 15, 2019 9:54 PM

Penny Trains
Miningman
5) A bridge that SD70DUDE would be familiar with, at least historically. How would you like to be the engineer back in the day, crossing in high winds and snow with a couple of hundred people in the coaches your locomotive is pulling. Yikes! Between Edmonton and Calgary.

How about the brakemen?  Jumping from car to car with a brake club in hand in a raging blizzard!  Tongue Tied  Yikes!

I'm glad it was saved but I would have loved to live in it right where it was!  Wink

I've always loved those old-style stations with a Witch's hat.  While a different design, the old brick CP station at South Edmonton still exists, and has host a succession of nightclubs and bars since being vacated by the railroad. 

Image result for cp strathcona station

The Duhamel trestle was located just southwest of Camrose, AB, where the GTP's Edmonton-Calgary line crossed the Battle River, which is in a very deep, wide valley that was carved by a glacial outburst flood approximately 10,000 years ago.  Like many pioneer bridges it was built out of untreated timber, and did not last.

After Canadian National was formed the stretch of ex-GTP track from Duhamel to Barlee Jct (north Camrose) was abandoned, and all trains moved to the ex-Canadian Northern line that is still in operation today.  A short connecting line (Ferlow Jct Cutoff) was built east from Duhamel to connect the southern half of the ex-GTP line to the ex-CNoR track, allowing the abandonment of the now-rotting trestle.

The Camrose area at the time of CN's formation:

https://railways.library.ualberta.ca/Maps-9-1-7/

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, November 15, 2019 10:04 PM

Love those photos Vince!  Let me see here...

Photo one, good old Starucca Viaduct.  Makes me pine for the "days when" all right!

HAIL CAESAR!  Yep, when the designer of the viaduct needed something that would work, well, what better than a Roman aqueduct for inspiration?  Starucca's still there, doing what it was meant to do.

Photo three.  That RS-2 paint scheme looks strikingly similar to the first Susquehanna RS-1 scheme.  I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Have a look. http://archive.atlasrr.com/Images/HOLocomotives/hors1/7123.jpg 

Photo five.  I don't know, that trestle looks pretty well built.  I don't think an engineer would have any hesitation about running over it.  But if I was a brakeman and someone told me to climb the cars in a howling blizzard running over that trestle I'd have two words for him, and they wouldn't be "Yes sir!"

Interestingly, veteran railroader and rail writer Bill Knapke (He started railroading in the 1880's!) said that stopping a freight train of the late 19th Century, like the one pictured, wasn't all that difficult.  What they did was load the caboose heavily with ballast to increase it's weight, then chain the brakes of the last freight car to the caboose brakes.  When the engineer whistled "Down brakes!" tightening the caboose brake wheel was enough to slow and stop the train, assuming the engineer was doing his part on the head end.  But as Bill said, you could only get away with this on the relatively short freight trains of the time.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, November 16, 2019 10:06 AM

Penny Trains

The river view is enhanced a bit because of the fact that the terminal complex is about 90 feet above river level:

That's the 3,112 foot long Detroit Superior bridge which had Cleveland's subway tracks on it's lower level.  I took this pic in 1993 shortly before it was renovated.  If you look carefully you can see the CUT now RTA Cuyahoga Viaduct and one of it's distinctive catenary bridges through the arches.  You can also see the Rockefeller Building peeking through the tree on the left edge.

Impressive infrastructure! It seems to me that Cleveland is quite underrated; the size of the city is not the largest in Ohio, but she has all these magnificent bridges and skyscrapers that people can't find in other much larger cities. Spectacular buildings like the Cuyahoga Viaduct, deserve even more international exposure. :  ) 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, November 16, 2019 7:26 PM

MidlandMike

I wonder how high that bridge is above the Cuyhahoga River?  It does not look like it would clear a Great Lake boat.

 

Wikipedia entry says the clearance is 96 feet.  That's in the center of the steel arch:

By Michael Barera, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=42627073

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit%E2%80%93Superior_Bridge

By the way on November 11th 1989 it was officially renamed the "Veterans Memorial Bridge".  Not to be confused with the Hope Memorial Bridge, formerly the Lorain-Carnegie Bridge it's neighbor to the east:

By Jet Lowe - This image is available from the United States Library of Congress's Prints and Photographs divisionunder the digital ID hhh.oh0101.This tag does not indicate the copyright status of the attached work. A normal copyright tag is still required. See Commons:Licensing for more information., Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1071290

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Memorial_Bridge

Local legend is mixed on just who or whom the bridge was renamed for in 1983.  Many Clevelanders assume it's for Leslie Townes "Bob" Hope who grew up on the east side.  Others claim it's for his father, William Henry "Harry" Hope who was a stonemason and helped erect the "Guardians of Traffic", one of which was supposed to contain an entrance stairway to the subway deck on the bridge's lower level.  The subway expansion never happened but the rail deck was built.

By Carptrash at the English language Wikipedia, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=16311846

Speaking of Bob Hope, I sat in front of the building on the far right in the pic below in 1996 for Cleveland's Bicentennial Celebration:

Colored floodlights were installed on all of the big bridges.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomsheridan/16194032778/in/photostream/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/188517934372348793/

Bob and Delores Hope sailed by in a glass box enclosure on the deck of a small ship.  I don't know if this is their boat or not, but it looks like what I remember.

https://rinestock.com/studio-b/

Here's a bit of video I found from local TV:

The compression of the sound will give you a bit of an earache though.  Tongue Tied

Cleveland gets a bad rap because of this 1952 photo:

https://www.wired.com/2011/06/0622cleveland-cuyahoga-river-fire-burns-again/

To keep it short, Time magazine ran a story using this 1952 photo to illustrate an article about a small railroad bridge fire that occurred on June 22nd 1969.  In fact the fire was sparked by molten metal from a slag car running at the mill and the bridge and only the bridge caught fire.  The river did not spontaineously combust as most believe.

But, the article was included in THE best selling issue of Time magazine of all time: the one that included coverage of the flight of Apollo 11!  Dots - Sign

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, November 16, 2019 7:45 PM

Thanks for those impressive photos Becky, and I wholeheartedly concur with Mr. Jones, Cleveland doesn't have to take a back-seat to anyone when it comes to the magnificence of its railroad architecture!

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, November 16, 2019 10:53 PM

Penny Trains
Penny Trains wrote the following post 3 hours ago: MidlandMike I wonder how high that bridge is above the Cuyhahoga River?  It does not look like it would clear a Great Lake boat.   Wikipedia entry says the clearance is 96 feet.  That's in the center of the steel arch:

For comparison, the Ambassador Bridge over the Detroit River built about the same time had 152' clearance.  Maybe the low clearance of the Cleveland bridges had already been set in earlier years.  The other 2 big bridges, Blue Water and Mackinac, were also in the 150' range.  However, the Soo bridge was only 124'.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 17, 2019 12:56 PM

1) Busy time in Field, BC.  I count six active steam locomotives. Perhaps there are others. That's a lot of crews.

 

2)  Still in the mountains. Newly painted power in the old colours is looking mighty fine. A great look with the 'action red' containers.

 

3)  In between the first pic 'then' and the one above 'now' we had a mix  of colour schemes and builders. FM/CLC CLiner leading an interesting mix of power now vanished.

 

4)  Oil from Wainwright Alberta's oil fields being shipped by rail in the 1920's.  Wainwright is on the CNR mainline and the CNR was both a shipper and consumer of oil from the Wainwright and Lloydminster oil fields. 

Alberta, and all the West, may have to revert to this practice considering the Federal Government's current stated policies.

 

 

 

5) Streetcars in Ottawa. Now there is an Ottawa streetcar thread here on Classic, but draw your attention to the Classic Woolworth store ( no longer with us) and the Laura Secord chocolate shop ( still with us). Considering those horrid gigantic potholes in the road I think the streetcar is preferable to sacrificing your vehicle.

 

6) The B&O Abraham Lincoln. Kinda strange looking really. My understanding is that it did not pan out to well as account of a rough ride and not up to B&O's standards. They spun it off to B&O controlled Alton.

 

7)  Nice painting eh?  When steam was King! Tugboats, ships, locomotives!

  

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, November 17, 2019 6:16 PM

MidlandMike

 

 
Penny Trains
Penny Trains wrote the following post 3 hours ago: MidlandMike I wonder how high that bridge is above the Cuyhahoga River?  It does not look like it would clear a Great Lake boat.   Wikipedia entry says the clearance is 96 feet.  That's in the center of the steel arch:

 

For comparison, the Ambassador Bridge over the Detroit River built about the same time had 152' clearance.  Maybe the low clearance of the Cleveland bridges had already been set in earlier years.  The other 2 big bridges, Blue Water and Mackinac, were also in the 150' range.  However, the Soo bridge was only 124'.

 

Yeah, but those waterways are much more navigable for much longer distances than the Cuyahoga River.   The Cuyahoga is only navigable for 5 miles (8km) from it's mouth to what is currently the ArcelorMittal Steel Works at a dredged depth of 27 feet (8.2m).  (This was the Republic mill in case anyone's wondering.)

Here's our local ore freighter museum:

By JuanPDP - Own work, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1168122

By Laszlo Ilyes from Cleveland, Ohio, USA - Take a Bow, CC BY 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1981815

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, November 17, 2019 7:47 PM

Miningman

 

 6) The B&O Abraham Lincoln. Kinda strange looking really. My understanding is that it did not pan out to well as account of a rough ride and not up to B&O's standards. They spun it off to B&O controlled Alton.

 

 

Of course it looked like this new....

I think B&O's solution was better than that of ATSF...

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:23 PM

Agreed Peter. That Santa Fe treatment is, well, embarrassing.

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, November 17, 2019 9:55 PM

OTOH, EMD hadn't yet learned their lesson on how to provide cooling air for the radiators with the very first E's (E for eighteen hunder horsepower).

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 2:42 PM

Those B&O and Santa Fe diesels?  Well what can we say?  They were still a function looking for their form back then.

The head-end crews weren't too crazy about them either, there wasn't 50 feet of boiler up front giving them any kind of collision protection.  A bit unnerving if you hadn't started out as a trolley, interurban, or subway train driver.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, November 21, 2019 10:15 PM

Our Mounties are the best! Didn't think I'd ever have 2 Mounties in my back yard at 4 am with two hands on their pistols pointed as they approached the garage door last Saturday, but hey, they learned from this guy!

 

So while we're on the subject of guns .. "take out your ticket nice and slow there fella". 

 

I never quite realized just how massive that S2 was. Look at the size of the people!

 

Ditto the Union Pacific 'Union Pacific' type 4-12-2. Again look at the size of that fella walking alongside and the railroader oiling around standing on the cowcatcher.

 

Geology I Mid Term tomorrow, 3 hour exam. I'll be wearing my Tshirt that is the Avatar I use on this Forum. ( over a turtleneck, too darn cold otherwise).  Mining I was held on Tuesday this week. They are still reeling the poor featherless goslings. They'll be ok... in time.

 

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, November 22, 2019 2:39 AM

Penny Trains

Speaking of Bob Hope, I sat in front of the building on the far right in the pic below in 1996 for Cleveland's Bicentennial Celebration:

Stunning capture and composition, Becky! The shadow on the river, the rowing boat, the boat that was saluting, and the B&O Cuyahoga River Bridge; I love how you "skipped" the tip of the bridge for a better composition, which nicely moved the focus to the boats a bit. Before the introduction of the digital camera, we have to carry several rolls of films before leaving home for events or traveling, and we have to make fast decisions to capture the best picture within a short period of time with limited films available, that really require skills. : )

Miningman

Considering those horrid gigantic potholes in the road I think the streetcar is preferable to sacrificing your vehicle.

I would have picked the streetcar instead of driving if there were streetcar serving between my office and my home in the downtown, even though there weren't that many potholes in the road. Imagine after a day of hard work, you finally relieved and met some familiar faces, good friends on the streetcar, it would be like an after-work party! The streetcar could be crowded, but it helped people who took them every day or every other day to save a lot of money. And if you love streetcar, every ride is priceless.

 

Miningman

I never quite realized just how massive that S2 was. Look at the size of the people!

 

She was 16 ft tall, almost 2 ft taller than a London Routemaster double-decker bus. Folks were facing to the 1500hp reverse turbine housing and 68" drivers. 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, November 22, 2019 2:46 AM

Flintlock76

Those B&O and Santa Fe diesels?  Well what can we say?  They were still a function looking for their form back then.

The head-end crews weren't too crazy about them either, there wasn't 50 feet of boiler up front giving them any kind of collision protection.  A bit unnerving if you hadn't started out as a trolley, interurban, or subway train driver. 

I thought she actually hit something thus the funny flat nose..... CoffeeSurprise I can't remember if I have seen a brass train of this one......

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 22, 2019 7:02 AM

The Abraham Lincoln was built to run on the Alton, B&O-controlled at the time.  The trainset was one of two built for the B&O in 1935, the other was the Royal Blue for a whiile before it, too, ended up on the Alton, without the EMC.  Both of the photos are of the same unit, B&O 50.  The nose was altered later.  B&O 50 still exists at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis.

Santa Fe's two Super Chief units were rebuilt in very different ways. Number 1 ("Amos", of "Amos and Andy") was rebuilt into the odd shape shown above, and retrucked to 1B-1B, as was 1A ("Andy") renumbered 10. The beetle brow was basically an air scoop.  Both were rebuilt into freight locomotives with B-B Blomberg trucks in 1948, as 2610 and 2611.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, November 22, 2019 8:08 AM

Miningman

Our Mounties are the best! Didn't think I'd ever have 2 Mounties in my back yard at 4 am with two hands on their pistols pointed as they approached the garage door last Saturday, but hey, they learned from this guy!

 

So while we're on the subject of guns .. "take out your ticket nice and slow there fella". 

 

I never quite realized just how massive that S2 was. Look at the size of the people!

 

Ditto the Union Pacific 'Union Pacific' type 4-12-2. Again look at the size of that fella walking alongside and the railroader oiling around standing on the cowcatcher.

 

Geology I Mid Term tomorrow, 3 hour exam. I'll be wearing my Tshirt that is the Avatar I use on this Forum. ( over a turtleneck, too darn cold otherwise).  Mining I was held on Tuesday this week. They are still reeling the poor featherless goslings. They'll be ok... in time.

 

 

 

Great shots!

Picture one.  What can I say, it takes real class to go into action wearing your "Dress Reds!"  Got to love the Mounties, some of the best cops in the world!

Picture two.  Hmm, those guys mean business!  Must be an important shipment coming in or the railroad pay train.  Let's see, that looks like a good ol' Winchester '94 "Thirty-thirty" the guy in front is holding.  The other two are holding what I think are tear gas guns.  The man on the left looks like he's got a belt full of gas grenades as well.

Pictures three and four.  It always astounds me, although it shouldn't by this time, just how massive railroad locomotives can be.  Ever stand next to a Big Boy or a C&O Allegheny?  The size of those things will take your breath away in a way a diesel never could.

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, November 22, 2019 1:44 PM

Perhaps to maintain order and protect property from a violent strike.

Hard to believe that S2 has such a short life. It has been put forth it could have been successful in time. It's issues could have been worked out given time and desire but by then the Diesels doomed it anyway. I understand it sucked water out of the tender at an alarming rate, besides Westinghouse wanted their turbine back. 

I wonder if we will ever see a 4-12-2 restored to operation. Just never know how.. never say never.

As for the Mounties (RCMP) they certainly do have very high standards and are our police force here in Saskatchewan. Once in a while, here and there, you see a few of them in their Red Serge. Quite stunning. 

Speaking of quite stunning I've been wearing my 'Miners Dig Deep' T shirt today. A colleague stated " you look like a Hell's Angel".. wasn't quite sure how to take that. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, November 22, 2019 7:43 PM

Jones1945
Stunning capture and composition, Becky! The shadow on the river, the rowing boat, the boat that was saluting, and the B&O Cuyahoga River Bridge; I love how you "skipped" the tip of the bridge for a better composition, which nicely moved the focus to the boats a bit. Before the introduction of the digital camera, we have to carry several rolls of films before leaving home for events or traveling, and we have to make fast decisions to capture the best picture within a short period of time with limited films available, that really require skills. : )

Thanks!

This one was my favorite from that roll:

I did the MS walk in 1993 and of course I took my trusty cheapo 35mm Kodak along.  (I think it was a freebie from a gas station or something!  Laugh  But it took pretty darn good photos for a point and shoot!  Wink)

Aftyer the walk they treated us to a concert by Beatles tribute band "1964" at the Nautica Amphitheater, that white tent in the center.  Great show!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, November 22, 2019 7:57 PM

If you guys like Railroad Stories covers, check out these 2 databases: http://www.magazineart.org/main.php/v/pulpspecialized/railroad/

https://pulpcovers.com/?s=railroad+stories

I print them out and hang them on my bedroom walls along with framed tin signs.  These are the Christmas versions, there are also summer pics: an SP cab forward, an engineer oiling a boy's toy locomotive and Hulett unloaders.

I alter the covers so they have the same matching red header.  The summer pics have blue backgrounds.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, November 22, 2019 9:23 PM

That illustration of the engineer oiling the kid's toy locomotive could have been used for a pre-war Lionel catalog cover, or an American Flyer one for that matter! 

And you did pretty good with that "cheapo Kodak 35mm" Becky!  A professional photographer told me years ago that the camera isn't as important as the skill of the person using it is.  You can own the most expensive camera in the world but if you don't know what you're doing with it, what good is it?

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, November 23, 2019 10:49 AM

Flintlock76

That illustration of the engineer oiling the kid's toy locomotive could have been used for a pre-war Lionel catalog cover, or an American Flyer one for that matter! 

And you did pretty good with that "cheapo Kodak 35mm" Becky!  A professional photographer told me years ago that the camera isn't as important as the skill of the person using it is.  You can own the most expensive camera in the world but if you don't know what you're doing with it, what good is it?

Exactly. I miss my "cheapo Kodak", and the exciting moment when I got the photos and processed films back from the camera shop. :  ) 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:39 PM

Thanks!  Big Smile

I tip-toed through my photo box today and enhanced a few more.

This is the bottom of the steel arch portion of the Detroit-Superior bridge before the remodel:

I'm not sure which railroad owned this bridge but Whiskey Island and the Pennsy Huletts are off to the right (out of frame) so it could have been theirs:

Tower City Center fka Cleveland Union Terminal:

The as yet unnamed Gateway project soon to be known as Jacobs Field:

And I decided to rescan these two and see if I could punch them up a bit:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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