Some Very Cool RR Posters

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Some Very Cool RR Posters
Posted by Miningman on Saturday, June 22, 2019 8:56 PM

1) Now that's it's summer this one is really appropriate and very avant garde

2) A bit of a different approach and look for the Pennsy, but I like it.

3) Another poster featuring the S1. If nothing else it certainly projected power and the future ( alas not to be )

4) Really old time CPR poster, probably a 4-4-0 

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, June 22, 2019 9:10 PM

Gorgeous!  Real "Antiques Roadshow" material!

I wonder what the originals are worth, if you could luck into one?

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, June 23, 2019 3:37 PM

1) Forward vision in a 'short' dome is always the best! 

2) The recently discussed Reading Crusader

3) A saucy Peter Witt Ad 

4) Canadian Pacific loved their 4-4-4 Jubilees. Thinking this is for the Edmonton-Calgary service..  looks like Prairie and big sky.

 

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 23, 2019 4:33 PM

Super posters, especially the "Crusader" and the "Jubilee."

The "Peter Witt?"  That looks like one of the currently-produced slightly salacious "gag" posters produced for todays railfan market.  It never would have passed a censor in the '30s!  

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, June 23, 2019 4:40 PM

Yeah I would have to agree with you on the Peter Witt ad. Not sure the company would direct ads to the public, be more inside the industrY, trade magazines and such. It's kind of fun though . 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, June 23, 2019 4:51 PM

I was under the impression that "Peter Witt" was more of a generic term describing the interior layout of a car, such as "Pay As You Enter". Specifically, Peter Witt was, IIRC, a commisioner of the Cleveland street railways and the prime manufacturer would likely have been Kuhlman.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:21 PM

Miningman

3) Another poster featuring the S1. If nothing else it certainly projected power and the future ( alas not to be )

  

This was probably one of the last poster featuring the S1. "The Great All-Weather Fleet" replaced the much more elegant branding "Fleet of Modernism", the scaled down T1 would replace the S1 as the new face of Pennsy but didn't last very long.

One mystery remains unsolved: Pennsy never placed the Keystone number plate on the S1 (and the Loewy K4s as well).

One of my new favorites, the SP SunBeam:

https://www.classicstreamliners.com/npt-sunbeam.html

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Sunday, June 23, 2019 5:23 PM

 

FYI.
 
Thank You, Sir, for the Posters.
 
Years ago we visited Torrana,  the Witts were still in operation, some with Trailers, but, never rode one.
 
In 1975 TTC brought Preserved TTC 2424 back for Tour Tram Service and we rode it in this capacity.
 
T'was only then I realized the Centre Doors slide SIDEWAYS as on a Subway car.
 
 
 
 
FYI,
 
The question was, Why do streetcars and Interurbans have round ends and railway passenger cars do not?
 
To accommodate sharp curves found in city streets when coupled in trains.
 
 
 
CP 3001 on the ' Chinook ' was oil-fired for part of it's life.
 
The 2910 bunch were hated around here. They were used on a ' Ski Train ' Lethbridge-Blairmore after the War, as engine idle on weekends
 
Note one is painted Black.
 
 
 
FWIW.
 
CP Royal Hudson 2834  Painted Black.  Scroll Down.
 
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 23, 2019 6:19 PM

Cool engines those Jubilees, a nice blend of American and British practice into something uniquely Canadian.

And it goes without saying the CP made the 4-4-4 concept work when the Reading couldn't.

The Louis Marx toy company was fond of the Jubilees too, check this out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A2OJ5gDDx4  

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, June 23, 2019 7:10 PM

Flintlock76
It never would have passed a censor in the '30s!

Ever hear about the Santa Fe timetable recall?

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, June 23, 2019 8:21 PM

Please enlighten us! 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Monday, June 24, 2019 7:33 AM
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 24, 2019 8:25 AM

Penny Trains

 

 
Flintlock76
It never would have passed a censor in the '30s!

 

Ever hear about the Santa Fe timetable recall?

 

Uh, no.  That's a new one on me.

I do remember when the Virginia Railway Express, a Washington D.C commuter service was established here in the '90s one of the rejected ads for the same was...

"Easy in, easy out, with the Virginia Railway Express!"

They thought it was a little risque'.   Embarrassed  

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 24, 2019 10:21 AM

Flintlock76
And it goes without saying the CP made the 4-4-4 concept work when the Reading couldn't.

Whoa there, buddy!  That was a wrongheaded experiment in the first place (pin-guided truck, before the invention of even the original defective Delta truck), and Reading never had the need for a four-wheel truck even on a six-coupled express locomotive all the way to 1948.  (On the other hand, when given the opportunity to specify power for a 5-car lightweight express train, they adapted Pacifics rather than going to the contemporary four-coupled high-speed option)  

The Germans were the ones who 'figured out' how to make double pin-guided trucks work stably at high speed -- it involves using an air cylinder to physically slide the pin location relative to the rigid wheelbase.  

Reading is also famous for their clever approach to putting heavy control springs on the lead axle of a 2-10-0 to "improve stability".  As I recall, on the first test the arrangement worked so disastrously that after about 50 miles the spring assistance was physically welded out of contact.  (Can you say "inadequate snubbing or damping"?  I knew you could...)

There's no particular wizardry in using a four-wheel truck on a four-coupled locomotive... except that you have to wonder if it were truly necessary.  (Lima certainly would have thought so.)  Remember that this has comparatively little to do with considerations of 'adequate grate area' even for indifferent coal firing -- it's the carried weight of all the firebox and chamber paraphernalia, including syphons to augment circulation and radiant uptake area.

Most railroads faced with this would (and I suspect did) just add the third axle to produce a Hudson, which in most cases would give a much more flexible locomotive.  The brief era of four-coupled for true high speed was largely over by the late Thirties (except in the minds of the folks at PRR), as was the market for those locomotives (as successful streamliners rapidly became too large for them to pull reliably).

You will note that although CN had 80"-drivered Hudsons, CP did not.  Canadians know why. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 24, 2019 10:57 AM

No disrespect intended toward the Reading, they were a class act.  As a matter of fact they were once referred to as "The most exclusive men's club in Pennsylvania!"

All I knew was a they tried a 4-4-4, it didn't work, it scrambled the head-end crews brains at speed, so they reverted to a 4-4-2, which did work.  That's all.

I didn't know about the Germans, but I'm not surprised they made it work, they could make just about everything work.  Hey, the people in the old Eastern Bloc countries used to say  "Those damn Germans!  They even make Communism work!"

At least until the Berlin Wall came down and East Germany died a long-overdue death, and the dirty little secret came out.  They couldn't make Communism work either!  

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 24, 2019 11:40 AM

Flintlock76
All I knew was a they tried a 4-4-4, it didn't work, it scrambled the head-end crews brains at speed, so they reverted to a 4-4-2, which did work.

Here's the relatively short version, and it's important to remember that the 'modern' two-wheel truck as we know it hadn't been invented at that point; the design of trailing trucks was not much advanced beyond the original dodge of using smaller wheels in a 4-6-0 chassis to produce a 4-4-2, and some part of that was use of Cartazzi-style axleboxes to produce the effect of radial steer without positive weight-assisted guiding (as would become a fundamental principle of the Delta truck, which you should study if you're unfamiliar with it).  There was a brief excited flowering of various kinds of patent trailing truck that, with more or less success, managed weight distribution and good guiding together, sometimes with complex and lightweight systems of levers and framing.  Some of these worked quite well: the N&W in particular kept fabricated trucks on the streamlined Mountains, which would make little sense if they didn't perform 'as advertised' with decent maintenance.  

As far as I can tell, the Reading decided to minimize all the adjustment and maintenance involved with a fabricated trailing-truck arrangement by going to a simple and parts-saving expedient: use the same pin-guided truck on the front under the firebox.  This had been tried on the largest locomotives in Europe only a couple of years earlier (which is why a 'Baltic' has pin-guided trucks on both ends, but a 'Hudson' has a Bissel on the rear, by convention) and apparently there was no perceived problem with putting a frame socket and side bearings under the ashpan (it wouldn't be until Woodard in the early '20s that the idea of getting structure out from under a big ashpan and adequate free air for a big firebox would become famous design points).  

The problem is that a pin guided truck leading is dynamically stable, even if the only restoring force applied to it is lateral springing rather than some arrangement of levers or rockers to use weight as a restoring force.  This has been known from at least the time of Adams ... but no one seems to have done much thinking about precisely why "rolling out the road" was good design.  A pin-guided trailing truck is not dynamically stable unless (1) its pivot is ahead of the first axle, and (2) there is effective steering of at least the trailing axle directly (not indirectly via the pivot and the side-bearing friction).  This was of course grossly exaggerated on the Reading engine by the short rigid wheelbase and the probable lack of adequate overbalance (or whatever) to remove high nosing force at speed.

Moving the pin acts to 'bias' the truck so it "trails" whichever way the locomotive is going, and this also helps damp any resonant augment that comes up when the flanges try to 'walk' the truck at high speed (btw, attempting to control this with friction at the 'center pivot' doesn't work any better than it does for freight cars.)

Returning to the fast Atlantics, we do see some European four-coupled tank engines (notably some in Hungary) that depended on good guiding in either direction.  Most of the ones I've seen were in commuter service where true high speed might not have been seen ... but I believe high peak speeds, perhaps as high as the 80mph range, were at least contemplated.

The specific engine with the air adjustment was the German 4-6-4T built to run with the Henschel-Wegmann-Zug trainset (where the locomotive in intended service could easily run around the train for the return trip without having to be wyed or taken to a turntable).  I do not remember what the arrangement on the 4-6-6 (which later became a large part of 18 201 if I remember correctly) in this regard was, and I'd like to hear from someone who knows.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 24, 2019 12:28 PM

Mod-man, when it comes to engineering you certainly know your stuff!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, June 24, 2019 7:14 PM

In a documentary about the Super Chief narrated by Michael Gross they mention a timetable that had to be recalled because the image of a waiter was "suggestive".  What it was, was a shadow on the man's pants, but it looked a bit on the pornographic side for the time.  I've seen the photo in question and today no one would care.  But, needless to say, that particular timetable is in high demand among collectors.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, June 24, 2019 7:46 PM

Hmmm.. thanks Penny

Some more very cool posters

Can HSR beat 22.5 hours when built to Hawaii because of the Green New Deal outlawing air travel! 

2) NDG can be your guide!

3) The Dude can show you the Prairies and how to look like this 

4) Now this is a cool poster 

 

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, June 24, 2019 8:10 PM

Miningman

3) The Dude can show you the Prairies and how to look like this

Volunteer at a railway museum, it's that easy!  But your shirt will get a lot dirtier than that!

I'd love to fit a flying boat in here too, but unfortunately the pond out back isn't quite big enough for it.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, June 24, 2019 9:28 PM

Overmod

...The specific engine with the air adjustment was the German 4-6-4T built to run with the Henschel-Wegmann-Zug trainset (where the locomotive in intended service could easily run around the train for the return trip without having to be wyed or taken to a turntable).  I do not remember what the arrangement on the 4-6-6 (which later became a large part of 18 201 if I remember correctly) in this regard was, and I'd like to hear from someone who knows...

I love the discussion about locomotive trucks and suspensions. I am still looking for a closeup photo or drawing of the "trailing truck" of the DRG 61 001 and 002. On the brass model of the 002 (4-6-6), the steel pin was set between the second and the third axle of the 6-wheel truck. I believe it was more complicated in real life.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, June 24, 2019 9:38 PM

Good stuff all around!

Thanks for the info Becky.  Sounds silly, but if some people have dirty minds what can you do?

The posters are great!  Educational too, I didn't know Air France had a flying boat service.  

And of course we can't beat Overmod's and M636C's engineering expertise.

Now if we could only get Mike back...

Thanks all!

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, June 24, 2019 9:54 PM

Miningman

Hmmm.. thanks Penny

Some more very cool posters

Can HSR beat 22.5 hours when built to Hawaii because of the Green New Deal outlawing air travel! 

Imagine doesn't hurt! The fastest HSR operating right now could hit 218 to 248mph, that would take the train about 19 hours to travel from Chicago to Hawaii on a straight track. For the Hyperloop, that would be within 6 hours. 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Monday, June 24, 2019 11:40 PM

If I am not mistaken, the plane in the UAL poster is a DC-4, which probably cruised under 250MPH. The DC-6's and DC-7's could cruise faster as they were pressurized and could operate efficiently at higher true airspeed (though similar indicated air speed).

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, June 24, 2019 11:58 PM

 

— a little eye candy.

 CP_FP-4040 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 NYNHnH_Comet1935 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 Pullman by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 Express by Edmund, on Flickr

Thank You,

Regards — Ed

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 1:00 AM

Beautiful, stunning. All of them. 

What is the tight beam of light projecting straight up from the Comet?

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 3:14 AM

Miningman
What is the tight beam of light projecting straight up from the Comet?

Yes, indeed. Scroll about 2/3 down here:

http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r012.html

It seems some railroads embraced the vertical "searchlight" beam. Similar to the C-P FP-7 & 9 roof-mounted Mars lights and the C&NW 400 Pacifics as shown below. I can't say that the vertical lamp in the Comet was stationary or oscillating. Perhaps someone here knows?

 CNW_400_Chi by Edmund, on Flickr

The Comet also sported a siren!

Regards, Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 8:13 AM

gmpullman
I can't say that the vertical lamp in the Comet was stationary or oscillating. Perhaps someone here knows?

Never heard it was anything but fixed.

Kratville has a discussion of the UP use of this idea on early Streamliners.

The basic idea always seemed appealing to me: the vertical beam showed where the head end of the speeding train would be, as well as indicating to 'the public' that a special high-speed train was approaching a given crossing.  It does not seem that any railroad that tried them retained them for any length of time, however, whether the beam were vertical or angled (as on the "400" in Ed's picture).  The usual reference says they were 'ineffectual' but doesn't go into much reason why.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 10:07 AM

Ok just a different kind of Mars light. Yes indeed they do make sense. Car dealerships, some kind of attraction in town, they used those war surplus spot lights to denote something going on and the location. Pretty obvious and easy to see anywhere in town and some distance away.

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 8:26 PM

The specific engine with the air adjustment was the German 4-6-4T built to run with the Henschel-Wegmann-Zug trainset (where the locomotive in intended service could easily run around the train for the return trip without having to be wyed or taken to a turntable).  I do not remember what the arrangement on the 4-6-6 (which later became a large part of 18 201 if I remember correctly) in this regard was, and I'd like to hear from someone who knows.

What is your reference for this feature?

I have been unable to find any details of 61 001 having anything other than conventional centre pivots on both trucks.

I have "Die Baureihe 61 und der Henschel-Wegmann-Zug" by Alfred Gottwaldt, published by Eisebahn Kurier in 2005. This reproduces the general arrangement drawings of 61 001 as the front endpapers and 61 002 as the rear endpapers, so to a metric A3 size. These both show the front and rear trucks of both locomotives to have conventional centre pivots. Photos of the trucks of both locomotives back this up, the trailing truck of 61 002 having the pivot directly above the centre axle.

Other detail drawings of 61 002 in the book confirm this, as do a number of smaller drawings of 61 001. The book shows only one photo of the train with the locomotive running bunker leading (just out of Dresden). Dreseden has a wye as part of the approach tracks which could be used to turn the locomotive. That was 61 001. There is only one photo of 61 002 on the lengthened five car train and it is boiler leading.
Both locomotives had full controls facing each direction but it seems that they tried to run boiler first. As built, 61 002 had a streamlined cover over the boiler end Scharfenberg coupler, but not over that on the bunker end. This had disappeared in the only in-service photo. The train had wheel cheek disc brakes, a fairly early application.
Peter
 
 

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