Very strange things

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:56 AM

New #1 is one of those New Zealand logging engines.  There were no few of these 16-wheelers.  As my knowledge of them is restricted to what is in When Steam was King plus some Internet browsing I think I'll defer to Peter Clark for good details.  Meanwhile look at the train web.net pages on NZ geared steam.

When in doubt check Douglas Self

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/johnston/johnston.htm

This appears to be one of a number of Johnston logging locomotives.

A nice diagram of the drive...

I can't claim much knowledge of NZ apart from the NZR.

"I support two teams, Australia and whoever is playing New Zealand..."

Peter

 
 
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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, August 18, 2019 12:07 PM

New Zealand you say. Well thanks Peter and Overmod. Only real things I know about New Zealand are Zena warrior princess and that the whole place is a ticking geological time bomb in a couple of ways. 

That inside gear drive threw me off. Must have been a bit hard for maintenance but I can also see the advantages. 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:23 PM

Miningman
Only real things I know about New Zealand are Zena warrior princess and that the whole place is a ticking geological time bomb in a couple of ways. 

I'm likely to get in a scuffle with Mr. Clark, but I love New Zealand and most New Zealanders, and were they to get rid of their pointless excuse for a government I'd love to move there.

Love many places in Aus, too, but not quite as well...

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:34 PM

I could live in NZ.  No venomous snakes, spiders, etc and friendly people.  The best used bookshop I've ever seen was in the Devonport section of Auckland.  It had sections on railways, military and naval history, etc.  Too bad my pension health insurance doesn't carry over to foreign countries.

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:24 PM

Overmod

 

Miningman
Only real things I know about New Zealand are Zena warrior princess and that the whole place is a ticking geological time bomb in a couple of ways. 

 

I'm likely to get in a scuffle with Mr. Clark, but I love New Zealand and most New Zealanders, and were they to get rid of their pointless excuse for a government I'd love to move there.

Love many places in Aus, too, but not quite as well...

 

 I really do like New Zealand. I have only visited twice but intend to do so in the near future. The scenery, particularly in the South Island, and the quality of rail preservation across the country are remarkable.  I have every copy of "NZ Railfan" since it started and have contributed to the magazine. The reason for my post was the "Bledisloe Cup". I'm told the most recent score was NZ:36 Australia:0....

There is a long history of sporting rivalry between NZ and Australia.

I'm not concerned by their Government but I am annoyed by their pathetic excuse for main line electrification. For heavens sake, extend it to Auckland where they use the same overhead power....

Nearly twenty years ago they were running passenger trains with diesel power under the wires between Palmerston North and Hamilton. I did get a couple of photos of electrically hauled passenger trains.

Peter

 
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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:44 PM

From what I read, the Aukland commuter authority, and the mainline operator think the other should close the electric gap in northrn NZ.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, August 18, 2019 10:08 PM

Aside from the rail preservation, I've got to get to New Zealand one day to have a look at this, and I hope it doesn't cause us to lose our "train of thought."

I'd hate to get us "railroaded" into any kind of trouble.  OK. I guess it's safe now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5pgHDrr-_Y  

And if I happened to run into Xena that'd be OK too!

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Posted by M636C on Monday, August 19, 2019 6:26 AM

MidlandMike

From what I read, the Auckland commuter authority, and the mainline operator think the other should close the electric gap in northern NZ.

 
The Auckland Authority hasn't even extended the wires to the end of their service area, and are running diesel multiple units obtained twenty years ago from Perth Western Australia where they were already twenty years old.
 
But Kiwi Rail could get better utilisation of their electric locomotives if they could run all the way to Auckland. However as of tonight before the data feed died, there were four freight trains between Palmerston North and Hamilton. Three had double DL class, Chinese built MTU engined 2700 kW diesels, one had two EF class electrics. At least two of them were working at the same time....
 
If they had modern AC traction electrics, these could be adapted easily to run on 1500 V DC as well and could run through to Wellington. It isn't much further from Palmerston North to Paekakariki where the 1500 volts begins.
 
I think the NZ government would like to get more traffic behind electric traction, and might be persuaded to assist in these connections.
 
Peter
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Posted by M636C on Monday, August 19, 2019 6:54 AM

Flintlock76

Aside from the rail preservation, I've got to get to New Zealand one day to have a look at this, and I hope it doesn't cause us to lose our "train of thought."

I'd hate to get us "railroaded" into any kind of trouble.  OK. I guess it's safe now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5pgHDrr-_Y  

And if I happened to run into Xena that'd be OK too!

 

 

While we have warbird shows in Australia, we don't have quite the range and number of aircraft they have in Wanaka. If you could extend your trip to Australia, a trip to Temora NSW might be rewarding. They have an airworthy Avon Sabre, along with the usual Spitfire, Mustang and a Lockheed Hudson. There is a Lockheed Neptune and a Super Contellation (not a warbird, I guess) at Albion Park (where there is a narrow gauge railway museum as well).

But you couldn't go to NZ without checking out at least one of the two operational Rogers 2-4-2s, both of which had been buried as part of breakwaters at some time.

Peter

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, August 19, 2019 7:05 AM

Auckland NZ also has a couple of nonrestored Northerns and a Beyer Garrett.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 19, 2019 8:00 AM

Backshop
Auckland NZ also has a couple of nonrestored Northerns...

I thought at least one of them (Ka 942) was fully running, and the surviving Kb under slow but sure restoration much like ATSF 2926.

The story of that Kb should shame all of America that let so much of our classic steam away.  It was supposed to be scrapped following 'one last excursion' but a collection taken up on the train raised enough of a down payment on the scrap value to keep that from happening.  A schoolteacher showed railroad films to children and collected change from them for the rest ... I am minded of all those Halloween pennies for UNICEF and how many steam locomotives might have been purchased with a similarly organized effort.  

The Jas and "Jb" are no slouches either.

And as Peter mentioned ... the 2-4-2s, emphasis on the "s" -- the first one was the subject of an article in Trains that still fills me with wonder when I think about it today.   

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, August 19, 2019 8:36 AM

M636C

 

 
Flintlock76

Aside from the rail preservation, I've got to get to New Zealand one day to have a look at this, and I hope it doesn't cause us to lose our "train of thought."

I'd hate to get us "railroaded" into any kind of trouble.  OK. I guess it's safe now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5pgHDrr-_Y  

And if I happened to run into Xena that'd be OK too!

 

 

 

 

While we have warbird shows in Australia, we don't have quite the range and number of aircraft they have in Wanaka. If you could extend your trip to Australia, a trip to Temora NSW might be rewarding. They have an airworthy Avon Sabre, along with the usual Spitfire, Mustang and a Lockheed Hudson. There is a Lockheed Neptune and a Super Contellation (not a warbird, I guess) at Albion Park (where there is a narrow gauge railway museum as well).

But you couldn't go to NZ without checking out at least one of the two operational Rogers 2-4-2s, both of which had been buried as part of breakwaters at some time.

Peter

 

A Lockheed Hudson!  Oh wow, I've been in love with that aircraft ever since seeing this  years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEvtvrSf22A  

The Wanaka group in NZ impressed the hell out of me with that Avro "Anson,"  I didn't think there were any left in the world.

TWO Rogers 2-4-2's resurrected from breakwaters?  There must be one incredible story behind that!  

Amazing.  From Rogers Locomotive Works in Paterson New Jersey, to New Zealand, than into a breakwater and back to the "land of the living." 

Hey!  I found some video of those 2-4-2's, with a little surprise at the end!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c02IYnQD8Jc   

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, August 19, 2019 4:43 PM

Overmod

 

 
Backshop
Auckland NZ also has a couple of nonrestored Northerns...

 

I thought at least one of them (Ka 942) was fully running, and the surviving Kb under slow but sure restoration much like ATSF 2926.

The story of that Kb should shame all of America that let so much of our classic steam away.  It was supposed to be scrapped following 'one last excursion' but a collection taken up on the train raised enough of a down payment on the scrap value to keep that from happening.  A schoolteacher showed railroad films to children and collected change from them for the rest ... I am minded of all those Halloween pennies for UNICEF and how many steam locomotives might have been purchased with a similarly organized effort.  

The Jas and "Jb" are no slouches either.

And as Peter mentioned ... the 2-4-2s, emphasis on the "s" -- the first one was the subject of an article in Trains that still fills me with wonder when I think about it today.   

 

No, these are South African locomotives.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/east-bays-courier/88626101/scuttled-train-engines-in-auckland-to-be-restored

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, August 19, 2019 5:09 PM
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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 19, 2019 6:03 PM

Backshop
No, these are South African locomotives.

They have a couple of TWENTY-FIVE NC's???

When's the next flight to the Antipodes???

(On the other hand the class K remains one of the very finest Cape gauge locomotives ever designed...)

 

 

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, August 19, 2019 6:22 PM

Overmod

 

 
Backshop
No, these are South African locomotives.

 

They have a couple of TWENTY-FIVE NC's???

When's the next flight to the Antipodes???

(On the other hand the class K remains one of the very finest Cape gauge locomotives ever designed...)

 

 

 

Yes they do, and the Auckland Hop-on Hop-off bus goes right by them.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, August 19, 2019 6:50 PM

Uh-oh.  I think Mod-man's going to be checking his passport to make sure it hasn't expired on him!   Wink

Truly though, those are some good-looking engines.  There's a lot of promise under that rust and crud!

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 19, 2019 7:47 PM

Flintlock76
Uh-oh. I think Mod-man's going to be checking his passport to make sure it hasn't expired on him!

Ahead of you ... at the post office this afternoon!

 

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, August 19, 2019 7:51 PM

If you're into naval history, the RNZN has a fine museum right across the harbour.  It's at Torpedo Bay and when I was there in Feb 18, they had a large display on the sinking of the Graf Spee since the HMS Achilles was manned mainly by New Zealanders.  Their main naval base is there, along with a fine bookshop.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, August 19, 2019 8:07 PM

Overmod

 

 
Backshop
No, these are South African locomotives.

 

They have a couple of TWENTY-FIVE NC's???

When's the next flight to the Antipodes???

(On the other hand the class K remains one of the very finest Cape gauge locomotives ever designed...)

  

 

The 25NC might be a bit limited in where they could run. in the recently electrified area around Auckland they presumably have adequate clearances but out on the main line their width would be a problem. A branch line with adequate track might be the answer.

If you really only have "When Steam was King" as an NZ reference, I'd recommend "Register of New Zealand Railways Steam Locomotives 1863-1971" by W.G Lloyd (2002 edition). I think this is still available new.

While this sounds like a boring list of numbers, it is a great book with brilliant illustrations of virtually every type in most variations, and the photo captions alone are worth the money.

I have two other books, "A Cavalcade of NZ Locomotives" and a recent successor whose title I forget, but if I have a question I go to the "Register" first.

It is possible that the J, with bar frames and roller bearings, was a better locomotive than the K, while not quite as powerful. For many duties the crews preferred a Ja to a Ka.

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 19, 2019 8:25 PM

M636C
It is possible that the J, with bar frames and roller bearings, was a better locomotive than the K, while not quite as powerful.

This is certainly my belief, although I think the 'best' class of Ks were the Kbs, which had many of the improvements that made the Jas so good.  Certainly the Jas seemed more popular to 'lay' enthusiasts in the late Seventies, when I was there.

Interesting sidenote for those as unwary as I was: there is an interesting painting displayed at MOTAT that is the source for the old RCA Victor emblem.  Question: what is the dog sitting on?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, August 19, 2019 9:11 PM

M636C
I think the NZ government would like to get more traffic behind electric traction, and might be persuaded to assist in these connections.

I heard that they (Kiwi Rail?) were not going to buy any more electrics, while the current ones were about due for replacement.

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 4:53 AM

MidlandMike

 

 
M636C
I think the NZ government would like to get more traffic behind electric traction, and might be persuaded to assist in these connections.

 

I heard that they (Kiwi Rail?) were not going to buy any more electrics, while the current ones were about due for replacement.

 

As I write, there are two electric trains and four diesel trains on the "North Island Main Trunk" between Palmerston North and Hamilton.

The southbound electric train has units 30134 and 30013 and the northbound has one unit 30059.

There were originally 22 units but two were scrapped after a serious derailment.

I'm told the NZ government may consider assisting with refurbishment of the remaining units.

Peter

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:16 AM

Here's the story of Nipper the Victor Talking Machine dog, a bit to much for me to summarize briefly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipper  

We've got a 1917 Victrola here at the "Fortress Flintlock," still works perfectly and there's Nipper, right on the inside of the cover, just as good as the day he was put there!

A personal note: When we moved into our first house there was a neighborhood dog that was a dead-ringer for Nipper.  Lady F and I yelled at the same time when we saw him, "It's NIPPER!  HE'S STILL ALIVE!"

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 9:40 AM

.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 9:46 AM

Still doesn't answer the question:  what's Nipper sitting on?

It's VERY clear in the original painting at MOTAT, which is the first place I ever had reason to think about this in the first place.  In the logo, the dog is quizzically trying to figure out how his master is in that horn.  In the original the thing is much more, shall we say, poignant.

Interestingly, at least one source dismisses this as a wives' tale.  Problem is that I've actually seen the painting (which leads me to believe that some of the 24 'copies' were different from each other in composition)

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 9:57 AM

Click on the revised (color) painting of Nipper and the disc gramaphone and you'll see he's sitting on a tabletop.  That was a tabletop  gramaphone after all.

The MOTAT painting?  I don't know, I've never seen it.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 10:06 AM

Flintlock76
Click on the revised (color) painting of Nipper and the disc gramophone and you'll see he's sitting on a tabletop.

In at least one of the 24 Barraud paintings (which was the one prominently displayed at MOTAT in the late '70s; I recall it as a surprisingly large canvas) the polished wood surface is revealed as the lid of a coffin.  This is high Victorian pathos at its best: the poor little dog has been missing his master, hears him with enough fidelity that he's cocked his head and puts his ears up, but can't figure out where he is... we of course know.

I've tried to find a print of this but it seems to have disappeared from the (rather extensive) online catalogue of museum holdings.  Mike might be able to find out how many of the 'extended' versions were painted and where they are now.

 

Incidentally:

https://www.fellmuseum.org.nz/

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 1:15 PM

A coffin lid?  Interesting.  

Not something you'd want to put in an ad for your product!  Talk about bumming out prospective customers!  

Continuing a discussion of absolutely no value, I found this article concerning "His Master's Voice" that mentions the "dog on a coffin lid" but says it has no basis in fact.  https://douglasniedt.com/HistoryOfNipperAndHisMastersVoice.pdf  

If there's a copy of the painting of Nipper on a coffin lid I hven't found it yet.  Maybe Mike will have some luck if it exists.  Mike can find anything!

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 4:09 PM

If your 1917 Victrola still works, and you have some 78 Shallack records to play on it, I wonder how you compare its sound quality with today's CDs and sreaming and other difitally recoreded and accessed music on good loudspeaker systems.  Have you listened ti it recenty?

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