Very strange things

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:23 AM

Thanks, Peter!

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, June 2, 2019 11:24 AM

Midland Mike-- The written description attached states the loco came along with a complete technology package for a new calcining furnace for Alumina. So you are almost for certain on the right track. Definitely protection against hazards. 

M636C- Yes, thank you. Quite the stack, I would not believe it so if it were not for the photo. 

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, June 2, 2019 11:38 PM

Overmod

Thanks, Peter!

 

I assume you don't have a copy of "The British Steam Railway Locomotive 1925-1965" or you would have quoted it as a source. I strongly recommend that you get a copy. There were two printings, the first with a cream dust jacket that matched "The British Steam Railway Locomotive 1825-1925" published for the Centenary of the Stockton and Darlington in 1925. I can't recall the author. It was basically a reprint of many historical articles from "The Locomotive Railway Carriage and Wagon Review". Both volumes have numerous drawings showing technical detail. The 1825 to 1925 volume was reprinted in the 1960s with a reprint of the 1965 volume both with colour dust jacket covers, the earlier green, the later red.

I'm sure you would enjoy the second volume, even if (like me) you avoid Oswald Nock's work. The illustrations alone are worth whatever it costs.

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 3, 2019 10:47 AM

M636C
I assume you don't have a copy of "The British Steam Railway Locomotive 1925-1965" or you would have quoted it as a source.

It appears there is a paperback version, a copy of which I have just ordered for the princely sum of $4.78 delivered to me in the USA.  While it's possible this is in a restricted size or lower print quality than the hardbound editions, the technical information should be 'just as good'...

I have no excuse for not having bought a copy earlier, only ignorance and lassitude.  I now recall that I actually ordered one of the LNER 'series' that was supposed to contain their account of the Hush-Hush (was it Volume 8?) but it was never delivered and I of course forgot to follow up.

The idea of adapting a Yarrow boiler to railroad service was a reasonable one, and I'm frankly sorry it didn't work.  

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 12:35 AM

I'm sure you will get $4.78 worth of reading from even a somewhat degraded copy of the book. I've never seen a paperback version of that book but I have paperback copies of other contemporary Ian Allan titles and they are fine. I have replaced a couple with second hand hardbacks which will last better.

I think (being away from my collection) that volume 8 sounds about right for the RCTS LNER set. Volume 1 is the preliminary survey, Volume 2a the Pacifics, classes A1 to A10 so class W1 would be further down the list. It is sad that your copy went astray. Those books are a little strange to non British readers but have most of the technical details. The description of the development of the Gresley conjugated gear (possibly in volume 6b) is very well researched and written.

One of the problems with the conventional three drum marine boiler is that the hot gases must be contained by the external casing which is fine within the hull of a ship but on a moving locomotive chassis which is subject to flexing and road shock, the casing is likely to develop leaks and result in loss of efficiency.

The water tube fireboxes coupled to a conventional fire tube boiler as in Emerson and Brotan designs reduces the size of the casing to a more managable size and the conventional boiler barrel helps to stiffen the rest of the locomotive structure.

Peter 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 12:55 AM

.

 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 12:59 AM

M636C
One of the problems with the conventional three drum marine boiler is that the hot gases must be contained by the external casing which is fine within the hull of a ship but on a moving locomotive chassis which is subject to flexing and road shock, the casing is likely to develop leaks and result in loss of efficiency.

This was complicated on the 10000, as I recall, because for some reason -- it might have been air preheating -- some of the space between the 'streamlined' cleading and the boiler was managed as a kind of ram-air duct from the front, and when the engine was at speed the insufficiently-stiff casing would 'breathe' a bit like the hull of the United States; if I recall the account correctly you could visibly see the rippling effect in the metal.  

There were, of course, other instances where a casing intended to be gas-tight was used on a locomotive, perhaps the finest example being the Fuller-Lehigh 'conversion' to burn lignite and other subbituminous wretchedness effectively at the (high!) necessary mass flow rate.  This used forced draft, something that is not so fine when there are lots of fines in the combustion gas.  Anyone familiar with the history of high-pressure combustion in power boilers (for example, the infamous Velox) will know the fun that comes with jets of black stuff from every minor orifice that opens up, even transiently.  

I am still eagerly waiting anyone who can describe the experimental "Lamont" firebox that was tried post-WWII in occupied East Germany (H45 024).  Apparently rather than adapting the 'automotive' version of LaMont's boiler (see for example 1920907A of 1933) they tried using more of a Benson once-through approach.  I find it unsurprising that this would lack flexibility and decent turndown ratio (just as Benson-cycle powerplant boilers do) but would like to learn exactly what was built, and why, and what specific lessons were learned from the experiment.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 1:28 AM

M636C
I think (being away from my collection) that volume 8 sounds about right for the RCTS LNER set.

Steamindex shows it to be volume 6C.  Both parts 8 are tank engines.  Would you know if the catchall 'part 11' volume contains valuable or meaningful 'new' information on the W-1?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 2:02 AM

M636C
I think (being away from my collection) that volume 8 sounds about right for the RCTS LNER set.

Steamindex shows it to be volume 6C.  Both parts 8 are tank engines.  Would you know if the catchall 'part 11' volume contains valuable or meaningful 'new' information on the W-1?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 2:03 AM

M636C
I think (being away from my collection) that volume 8 sounds about right for the RCTS LNER set.

'For the record' Steamindex shows it to be volume 6C.  Both parts 8 appear to be tank engines.  Would you know if the catchall 'part 11' volume contains valuable or meaningful 'new' information on the W-1?

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 6:42 AM

Inside the melting creamy cake (click to enlarge) :

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:22 AM

Overmod

 

 
M636C
I think (being away from my collection) that volume 8 sounds about right for the RCTS LNER set.

 

Steamindex shows it to be volume 6C.  Both parts 8 are tank engines.  Would you know if the catchall 'part 11' volume contains valuable or meaningful 'new' information on the W-1?

 

 

In about a week I'll be back in the same house as the RCTS Collection (LNER and GWR only). I recall thinking that Volume 11 was a disappointment.

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 11:08 AM

Jones1945

Inside the melting creamy cake (click to enlarge) :

What a delight THIS is!  (Incidentally, click twice for the largest display of the fine detail...)

I don't suppose the place you obtained this also has the table with detailed callout of all the numbered items... ?

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 5:58 PM

Overmod
 
Jones1945

Inside the melting creamy cake (click to enlarge) :

 

What a delight THIS is!  (Incidentally, click twice for the largest display of the fine detail...)

I don't suppose the place you obtained this also has the table with detailed callout of all the numbered items... ?

I always marvel at the artists that have the ability to create understandable 'cut away' drawings of complex machienry.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 6:51 PM

BaltACD
I always marvel at the artists that have the ability to create understandable 'cut away' drawings of complex machinery.

Here's another ... wouldn't this have made a great railcar engine?

Deserves to be computer wallpaper somewhere.  But here is something that will tickle you even more than the picture that is my avatar...

Design Fiction 001

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 7:01 PM

Now THAT is Overmodulated.

How a person does this is way beyond me!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 8:43 PM

Let me tell you, there's some who would give me a hell of an argument over this, but I believe the people who did those drawings were every bit the equal of any Renaissance Master who ever lived.

I'm sure Maestro Da Vinci would agree with me.  

" 'Ey, datsa good!  What you calla that thing, and how you make one?"  Pizza

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:50 PM

Overmod,

It might be a good engine for Cripe's DMT as I would imagine that it would put out perhaps a bit more power than the proposed diesel engines, not to mention the PT-6's used in the Turbotrain. I certainly would not want to be the poor mechanic that had to work on the thing.

Looks like the engine had a provision for using shotshell blanks for starting the engine, much like on the Wildcat.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, June 4, 2019 9:50 PM

Overmod
Jones1945

Inside the melting creamy cake (click to enlarge) :

What a delight THIS is!  (Incidentally, click twice for the largest display of the fine detail...)

I don't suppose the place you obtained this also has the table with detailed callout of all the numbered items... ?

This is the only page I found of this illustration, Mr. Overmod. Coffee It really helps people who are not familiar with mechanical engineering to understand what was inside the dream engine of Sir Herbert Nigel Gresley. 

I remember the first time I saw a picture of the Hush-Hush when I was a kid, I thought she must be something capable to rival the Mallard. In retrospect, I have been obsessed with the streamlined experimental steam engine for quite a long time...

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 3:57 AM

Erik_Mag
Looks like the engine had a provision for using shotshell blanks for starting the engine, much like on the Wildcat.

Or, as I recall, the triple-OP 'Deltic' engines on the earliest locomotives, including the prototype.  Or the interesting V-8 engines on the first GE gas-electrics...

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 4:08 AM

Flintlock76
I believe the people who did those drawings were every bit the equal of any Renaissance Master who ever lived. I'm sure Maestro Da Vinci would agree with me.  

Speaking as someone who was, albeit briefly, closely engaged with the 'cream' of contemporary Da Vinci academic scholarship -- he is to be ranked with the engineers, not the 'artists'.  His paintings are relatively few precisely because he used them to experiment with things like the physics of optical representation and perspective.  And he is more than a little known for mechanical drawing representation (and, I think, would have enjoyed the Mongean revolution leading to modern perspective drawing and hence phantom views...)

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 4:12 AM

Flintlock76
I believe the people who did those drawings were every bit the equal of any Renaissance Master who ever lived. I'm sure Maestro Da Vinci would agree with me.  

Speaking as someone who was, albeit briefly, closely engaged with the 'cream' of contemporary Da Vinci academic scholarship -- he is to be ranked with the engineers, not the 'artists'.  His paintings are relatively few precisely because he used them to experiment with things like the physics of optical representation and perspective.  And he is more than a little known for mechanical drawing representation (and, I think, would have enjoyed the Mongean revolution leading to modern perspective drawing and hence phantom views...)

Many years ago I came across a portfolio of artist etchings of fully-industrial subjects made with the full care and attention of an 'Old Master' -- the series was something like "The World Of Work" and the artist, who was classically trained, noted that the 'proper' subject for attentive skill was no longer natural or 'beautiful' subjects, but the things that were making the latter 1800s more and more an age of wonder.  I now wish I'd bought the things, because I can now find no reference to them or the artist -- perhaps Mike knows.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 7:47 AM

"The World of Work?"

Now that's interesting, I've got a hard-cover book put out by Doubleday, Page & Company" in 1914 titled "The World's Work-War Manual Of The Great 1914 European Conflict,"  kind of a "who's-who" of the major players, what it's all about, new weaponry, and such. 

Interesting, the first sentence of the first article...

"The nations of Europe are interrupting history again, fighting over the old battles on the old battlefields." 

I wonder if "The World's Work" had anything to do with "The World of Work?"

Great little book, and the really fun thing is the period advertising, including a company we've all heard of...

"Hamilton Watch, The Watch of Railroad  Accuracy!"

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:40 AM
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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 9:40 AM

Overmod
Erik_Mag
Looks like the engine had a provision for using shotshell blanks for starting the engine, much like on the Wildcat.

 

Or, as I recall, the triple-OP 'Deltic' engines on the earliest locomotives, including the prototype.  Or the interesting V-8 engines on the first GE gas-electrics...

 

I believe both the prototype and production Deltic locomotives started their engines by motoring the attached DC generator.

The marine Deltic did use cartridges.

I'm sure I've bored people here with my stories of trying to start the port engine of HMAS Snipe early in 1969. We had four cartridges and two engines and when we put the third cartridge into the port engine I had most of my fingers and at least two toes on each foot crossed. It started, and the starboard started with the one remaining cartridge.

We then spent a few hours towing a target for HMAS Brisbane. This was the first time I'd been on the receiving end of 5"/54 projectiles and noticed that you only heard them after they had splashed down.

Peter

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 10:49 AM

Jones-- Great stuff! Mesmerizing ...its amazing how much time and money and brains people have. Onward and upward. Thanks 

M636C-- So your blown to bits before you hear the shot. Does Hollywood know about this? 

Some more strange things:

1) GM made these? Weird cyclops thing that hauls one vehicle. How do you even get into it ? Is that the door bottom right? I guess so? 

2) First Class Second Class?  I don't get it, strange looking car hauler. 

1)

2) 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 12:09 PM

1) That's one version of the GM Futureliner custom modified because there weren't enough part to build a whole one.  

https://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/01/gm-futurliner-worlds-most-expensive-car-hauler/

Peter Pan Bus Lines has restored one that gets in the parade each year at the Eastern States Exposition in Springfield MA.

http://www.futurliner.com/pan.htm

 

And when they were new...

 

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/Featured_Innovations/1936_Parade_of_Progress.html

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 1:44 PM

Well thank you rcdrye! 

Mike adds this:

Check out the colour photos in the link... scroll down

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 1:53 PM

Miningman

Jones-- Great stuff! Mesmerizing ...its amazing how much time and money and brains people have. Onward and upward. Thanks 

2) 

 

#2 was a MHS "Clipper" trailer, this is another version with some 1948 Plymouth P15 Special Deluxe and 2-door coupe on it: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/carhaul/5716059651/in/set-72157622643131295/

Preserved:

https://murfy.us/doku.php?id=photos:okc_street_rod_2013:car_hauler

This one was very strange indeed Surprise:

 

I love the GM Futureliner, the styling is timeless. I especially love those whitewall thick tyres!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Train your car:

https://retours.eu/en/42-car-sleeper-expresses/

 Take your fancy car to your travel destination... 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 5, 2019 7:46 PM

That's only expensive because of its street-rod build expense.

The interesting thing to me about the Futurliners is that they're like rolling exhibit stages: the whole middle section opens to reveal an exhibit tableau.  (There is no internal structure in which to put floors and living accommodations to convert one into a motor home, which is why so many were cheaply available for so long)  It is surprising how far up the stairs go to get to the cab, and how small it is once you get there.  (It is also clear from the pictures, but only when you know to look for it, that these all had duals on the front wheels; you do not want to know the fun that poses for any practical road-going use of the things.)

The Materials Handling Systems Clippers were interesting, in part, because of how they maintained a low 'door height' clearance with decks full of cars with high roof heights (to accommodate the hats in fashion in the late 1940s).  This walkaround will show you how the trick of stowing the lower deck was done:

 

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