Very strange things

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, December 7, 2019 9:12 PM

Yes big thanks to Mike for the Boynton Bicycle Rwy.  Quite a fascinating read. 

The NYO&W was liquidated in March of '57 so not long after that 'Twilight Zone' eerie picture. 

The railroad had running rights South from Cornwall, New York to Weehawken, New Jersey on the New York Central's West Shore. 

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, December 7, 2019 10:21 PM

Those coaches at Weehawken Terminal are very likely NYC Westshore trains awaiting the evening rush.  O&W coaches awaiting disposal would have been stored off NYC property, and instead at O&W's Middletown shops.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, December 7, 2019 10:27 PM

I went with the caption that came along with the picture.. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, December 7, 2019 10:30 PM

They might  be NYC West Shore cars as you say, but I'm not so sure.  From what I can tell from the photo the cars on the right have a color scheme that looks an awful lot like the late two-tone scheme used by the O&W on passenger cars.  NYC cars on the West Shore were (I think) always Pullman Green, but I'll have to check that.  I'm not going to check now, it's 11:30 EST and I'm running out of steam.  

Too bad that's not a color shot.

Anyway, I found a video of some vintage O&W action from 1927.  Not near the West Shore line, but interesting just the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxP9VgHuN4c  

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, December 7, 2019 10:39 PM

The caption reads as follows:

NY Ontario & Western Terminal Weehawken NJ

Weehawken passenger terminal for the New York Ontario & Western Railroad. On this site today is the Port Imperial Ferry Terminal. At the time this picture was taken, passenger service was no longer running. Photo date 1956. The railroad will cease operation and liquidate within a year.

 

It is entirely possible the caption is in error, but I assumed it was accurate.

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, December 7, 2019 10:53 PM

While the terminal was the place that O&W terminated its trains, they were only a tenant.  O&W passenger service ended in 1953.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 7, 2019 11:48 PM

Remember that the West Shore yards were very famously in Weehawken, so it would make sense that the O&W's leased facilities were also at least nominally there.  And so it appears they are: Port Imperial is formally located there although Edgewater's terminal is only a short distance away.  What the caption did not say is that Port Imperial was the site where the leased terminal was built, which is the other way around... Imperatore's ferry came long after the railroad ferries stopped running in the late Sixties.

Here is a view of the Weehawken area from a different angle,

in 1938... 'did you recognise your block across the square ... over there...

Strange that the whole of the West Shore's own passenger service would be gone hardly more than a half-decade later...

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 8, 2019 2:25 AM

Flintlock76
You mean it actually worked?

Worse yet, it worked at comparatively high speed (although some of the 'projected' speeds for it were not likely without revised suspension and guiding!)

In that era of little passenger competition from non-rail sources, the thing was interesting, in the same sort of way the cable-driven elevated railway in Manhattan and the Beach pneumatic tube train were.  They were really nifty ... until you started thinking about transporting large numbers of passengers day-in, day-out on them. 

The passenger cars, for example, were built on the British boat-train principle -- which is admirable for commuter service if you can manage slam-door compartments.  This was of necessity because of course there was no lateral room for an aisle, and to get the same amount of seating as in a conventional railroad coach, you had to put one 'side' worth of seats above the other.  This was neither a stability nor a balance problem because you had the obligate overhead rail.  Stations had to be bi-level and of course both levels had people boarding and exiting simultaneously all down the train, which meant much more structure in the station platforms than I think was really expected. 

There was actually a second pass at this idea, with a gyroscopic (as I recall it) railcar that used two overhead rails for the tilt protection.  This looked as if inspired by Brennan's monorail without actually looking too carefully at why Brennan's monorail worked -- the overhead turned out to be underdesigned; the prototype crashed in a curve, one panic or another came along, and that was all there was for the idea of single ground rail.

I still think there was a passenger future for Brennan's equipment running on top of cables, as you see in a couple of the pictures of the research.  At least for the twenty minutes before there was some high-injury accident...

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 5:45 AM

Overmod

...There was actually a second pass at this idea, with a gyroscopic (as I recall it) railcar that used two overhead rails for the tilt protection.  This looked as if inspired by Brennan's monorail without actually looking too carefully at why Brennan's monorail worked -- the overhead turned out to be underdesigned; the prototype crashed in a curve, one panic or another came along, and that was all there was for the idea of single ground rail.

I still think there was a passenger future for Brennan's equipment running on top of cables, as you see in a couple of the pictures of the research.  At least for the twenty minutes before there was some high-injury accident... 

The gyro monorail, feel the "magic" of the gyroscope!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 9:02 AM

As I said I would I did some checking on O&W and NYC passenger car colors, and this is what I found.

On the O&W, the late era steel cars had a grey finish with yellow bands, thick below the windows, thin on top.  Their earlier wooden cars (not in service in the late 50's) were maroon.  This is from the Morning Sun book "NYO&W in Color."

The NYC passenger cars on the West Shore were predominantly Pullman Green, but there was a smattering of two-tone grey cars, definately in the minority.  This is from another Morning Sun book "NYC's West Shore Commuter Territory."

So, those cars at the Weehawken terminal could be either-or.  Again, it's too bad it's not a color shot.  We'll never know for certain.  Not that it really matters.

And yes, West Shore commuter service didn't have long to live.  Declining ridership certainly, but to make a long story short what put the final nail in the coffin was the NYC's abandonment of the ferryboat service from Weehawken to Manhattan in March of 1959.  With no easy way to reach the city from the Jersey side commuters stopped taking the trains and switched to buses.  Discontinuance of all West Shore commuter service came December 10, 1959.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 8, 2019 10:16 AM

The Weehawken Terminaln was definitely mislabeled.  The N YO&W had already stopped using it, and we can be certain that all the passenger equipment in the picture was West Shore New York Central equipment, waiting between rush hours.  The lack of any passeners in the photo is due to the service by then was down to a few Haverstrw - Weehawken trains in the morning and few back in the evening.  There would not be any NYO&W equipment at the terminal at the time of the photograph.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 11:34 AM

Well that settles it as far as I'm concerned!  Dave's the man, if he doesn't know what happened then it never happened to begin with. 

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, December 8, 2019 1:00 PM
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 7, 2019 3:59 PM

...Port Imperial refers to the much, much later use of this area by Arthur Imperatore...

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, December 8, 2019 6:52 PM

Miningman
4) Pennsy dwarf signal. Looks like something from Minions. Going to walk, waddle, right over to you and check you out!

Bet I know who their masters are!  Wink

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, December 8, 2019 7:19 PM

Penny Trains

 

 
Miningman
4) Pennsy dwarf signal. Looks like something from Minions. Going to walk, waddle, right over to you and check you out!

 

 

Bet I know who their masters are!  Wink

 

Wow!  A Martian from the REAL "War Of The Worlds!"  

They sure don't make 'em like George Pal did anymore!

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, December 9, 2019 7:14 AM

Am I the only one around here who wants to stab those jelly-like eyes? AlienTongue Tied

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, December 9, 2019 8:24 AM

Check out the "Domino" or "Headstone" signals that were used until the 1970s at Chicago Union Staton.  Article only mentions the South Approach, but they were on the North Approach, too.

https://www.railroadsignals.us/rulebooks/PRRCUS/index.htm

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 9, 2019 9:21 AM

Interesting that the aspect called 'permissive signal' calls for operating at the equivalent of restricted speed...

I have to wonder if these were used at Manhattan Transfer for the relatively brief time between 1925 and the extension of catenary through Penn Station.  It may bear looking into that this is a West End project; was there standardization of the "two-head" round position lights on Eastern terminals along with the Gibbs & Hill electrifications?  I have not been able to read the articles yet so there may be more information there.

When did PRR go from the four-in-a-row position light signals to simple three?  I know it was early but there has to be a story and perhaps we can get it from what remains of historical records if someone has not already told it.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 9, 2019 9:52 AM

Jones1945

Am I the only one around here who wants to stab those jelly-like eyes? AlienTongue Tied

 

No, I wouldn't do that, that would be cruel.

I'd just shoot the thing and call it a day!  But not until I'd determined the bugger was hostile, which of course the movie established beyond a doubt. 

Then I'd try to figure out if Martians are good to eat!

Hey, waste not, want not!  Chef

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, December 9, 2019 4:15 PM

Miningman
  4) Pennsy dwarf signal. Looks like something from Minions. Going to walk, waddle, right over to you and check you out! Bet I know who their masters are!

More commonly referred to as "pot signals" on the Pennsy.  At least in territories I've been to.  Still many of them in use - some with LED upgrades.

 The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer or any other railroad, company, or person.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, December 9, 2019 6:53 PM

Flintlock76
Wow! A Martian from the REAL "War Of The Worlds!"

I was trying to find a pic of one of those American Flyer prewar signals with the round green face and 3 bulbs but I couldn't find one.  At any rate those AF signals always remind me of the WotW Martians.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 9, 2019 9:06 PM

Penny Trains

 

 
Flintlock76
Wow! A Martian from the REAL "War Of The Worlds!"

 

I was trying to find a pic of one of those American Flyer prewar signals with the round green face and 3 bulbs but I couldn't find one.  At any rate those AF signals always remind me of the WotW Martians.

 

Don't be surprised if that American Flyer signal WAS the inspiration for the Martian look, Hollywood special effects people and designers get their inspiration from all sorts of places.

Remember that grinding "woo-woo-woo-woo" sound the Martian death rays made?  The sound effect came from a Ford starter motor!  

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 12:52 AM

Penny Trains

 

Flintlock76
Wow! A Martian from the REAL "War Of The Worlds!"

I was trying to find a pic of one of those American Flyer prewar signals with the round green face and 3 bulbs but I couldn't find one.  At any rate those AF signals always remind me of the WotW Martians.

 

Is this the signal you are looking for? One bulb is missing though..... Wayne probably shot it off...Wink

Photo by forum member Jimplayer 

zugmann
Miningman
  4) Pennsy dwarf signal. Looks like something from Minions. Going to walk, waddle, right over to you and check you out! Bet I know who their masters are!

More commonly referred to as "pot signals" on the Pennsy.  At least in territories I've been to.  Still many of them in use - some with LED upgrades.

 

Another precious "heritage" left by the "Standard Railroad of the World". I bet they will last another 15 years until our trains would be controlled by A.I ......

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 10:36 AM

Well, if anyone shot that bulb off it wasn't me, I have the highest respect for historic artefacts!  Especially toy  train artefacts.  I'm amazed how many have survived to this point in time.  

Which mean the owners of the same really, really  loved them.  

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 5:47 PM

Let's see how much I can get wrong this time!

1)  Art or mystic engineering?

So CP positions a train just so, paints on its multi mark logo, probably followed by an incantation of sorts and voila .. a tunnel is made. The train moves on taking with it the essence what was. Pretty cool I'd say.

 

2)  About time I see a steam locomotive carrying a spare main wheel. They should all have one!

 

3) Is this really a good idea? Talk about beating up the rail!

 

4)  Is this real?... or is it Memorex? Where? 

 

5)  Does Peta know about this? Anyway, tis the season, Merry Christmas

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 7:37 PM

Vince, you know as well as I do that the first picture is vehicular Pac-Man.  With a clear indication who is likely to come out second best.

Here's the other side of that Aveling & Porter locomotive, which I think is a bit more... fitting for this thread:

Bet you thought those were side rods!

Talk about mixed messages on the Santa Train -- reminds me of those singing Pop-Tarts or M&Ms, or for an older generation Oscar Mayer Wieners.  I looked for a comparative table of the calorific value of different makes of teddies (including those from Victoria's Secret) in narrow-firebox engines, but have had no luck so far ... it'll be interesting to see what Mike finds on that score.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 7:41 PM

First thing that came to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk9QFRvVQQ0

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, December 10, 2019 10:37 PM

Dang, you exposed the other side too early. Was hoping to run the 'spare tire' gag a bit. Oh well, the locomotive has a great name for all to see on that side!

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, December 11, 2019 2:48 AM

Flintlock76

Well, if anyone shot that bulb off it wasn't me, I have the highest respect for historic artefacts!  Especially toy  train artefacts.  I'm amazed how many have survived to this point in time.  

Which mean the owners of the same really, really  loved them.   

Exactly. I always imagine what my little collection would become 80 years later... How many of them still in the hand of the collector who really treasure them. If my family don't interested in them, I would just donate them to people or organizations who will take good care of them. 

Miningman

Let's see how much I can get wrong this time!

1)  Art or mystic engineering?

So CP positions a train just so, paints on its multi mark logo, probably followed by an incantation of sorts and voila .. a tunnel is made. The train moves on taking with it the essence what was. Pretty cool I'd say.

This is a pretty cool capture. I see two tunnels, or one portal between the cars, and one tunnel under them. Inside the portal, there is another doorway. Place the cars here:

 to see if this thing will work...  

Miningman

2)  About time I see a steam locomotive carrying a spare main wheel. They should all have one!

 

More photos of this cute engine: https://hiveminer.com/Tags/bocm%2Cerith

Somehow, those wheels remind me of the stone chariot of Hampi, India.

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