Very strange things

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 12, 2019 8:57 AM

I thought perhaps a good project for my newly arrived featherless gosling Mine Engineers but ...., naw. 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, September 12, 2019 10:26 AM

What an inspirational day. Let's bring in more randomness for this beautiful planet:

Some organs are missing, but grandma said no one is perfect......Drinks

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, September 12, 2019 12:05 PM

Miningman
I thought perhaps a good project for my newly arrived featherless gosling Mine Engineers but ...

Try 'em on this as a bully pulpit --

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 12, 2019 12:30 PM

Miningman

I'm certain someone out there knows what this is all about.

 

The enemy countered these by using E and F-wing fighters to wrap strings of welded rail around their legs.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, September 12, 2019 12:33 PM

Overmod

 

 
Miningman
I thought perhaps a good project for my newly arrived featherless gosling Mine Engineers but ...

 

Try 'em on this as a bully pulpit --

 

Wow.  I just knew Teddy, the Rough Riders, and those 10th Cavalry "Buffalo Soldiers" had a little more help at San Juan Hill than Lt. Parker's Gatling gun battery.  

Whatever he was, I'm sure he was more than welcome!

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, September 12, 2019 12:54 PM

SD70Dude
Miningman

I'm certain someone out there knows what this is all about.

The enemy countered these by using E and F-wing fighters to wrap strings of welded rail around their legs.

That's E- and F-nose fighters; the wings are the derivation from smoke deflectors.

And I almost hate to do this, with Wayne perhaps still needing coffee ... but how could you have forgotten the TIE fighters...

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, September 12, 2019 1:02 PM

Nah, I've had plenty of coffee this morning.

Coffee's kind of like a bra.  Two cups are usually all that's needed.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, September 12, 2019 6:38 PM
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Posted by M636C on Thursday, September 12, 2019 8:14 PM

 

The boiler appears to be that of a Canadian Pacific class G5 Pacific. G5d 1301 had the coil type Elesco feedwater heater shown in this photo. The "casing" below the boiler is an enlargement of the same boiler itself (note the shadow from the cab on both).

I don't know the locomotive that provided the forward cab, nor the source of the driving wheels although they could be from the G5.

The "knee joints" are probably the leading truck wheels from the G5.

Peter

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, September 13, 2019 12:11 AM

That's some pretty impressive detective work Peter. Knew I could count on you guys for some answers and insights. 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Friday, September 13, 2019 12:29 AM
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Posted by M636C on Friday, September 13, 2019 8:36 AM

It appears that only the G5d class had the Elesco heater.

Apart from the Worthington heater on the prototypes, the remainder had exhaust steam injectors on the right hand side of the firebox.

Peter

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, September 13, 2019 8:57 AM

Miningman

I wonder if that thing could pass a fire hydrant without doing a boiler blow-down?

Or something else?

Considering the "Happy face," maybe it just did?

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 13, 2019 9:00 AM

We need to get some of the people from the Model Railroader list involved to re-create an appropriate version of this:

PSR Wars, with Hunter playing the Emperor Palpatine character... as well as the Ed Khil Thomas face in place of the Trollio face Mike provided, dancing in the big musical number "A Pageant of Overlength Trains in the Blast Zone"

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, September 13, 2019 11:24 AM

Overmod

We need to get some of the people from the Model Railroader list involved to re-create an appropriate version of this:

PSR Wars, with Hunter playing the Emperor Palpatine character... as well as the Ed Khil Thomas face in place of the Trollio face Mike provided, dancing in the big musical number "A Pageant of Overlength Trains in the Blast Zone"

 

 
I didn't know that Cookie Monster has a West Asian cousin.......CT forum is such a great place to learn something new every day.
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, September 13, 2019 12:47 PM

Laugh

Well done Overmod, I haven't thought about "Hardware Wars" in years!

But I don't know about the "Model Railroader" folks doing an update, those HO guys are wrapped a little too tight, if you know what I mean.  Ever read their "Forum?"  Wow.  Some of those boys need to chill a little bit! 

Now the "Classic Toy Trains" people are the real anything for a laugh crowd!  

Same with N gaugers.  Ever see the amount of gag cars those guys put out, like "Burppo Beer?"  

There's supposed to be an N gauge gag car for "Fartzenhow Bean Company."  I've been looking for one for years to give to my brother-in-law "Big B."

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 13, 2019 3:20 PM

Flintlock76
But I don't know about the "Model Railroader" folks doing an update, those HO guys are wrapped a little too tight, if you know what I mean.

I don't know what I was thinking.  We have the Mistress of All Things Possible with us on this site already... and Christmas season is coming up.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, September 13, 2019 4:39 PM

Overmod
We need to get some of the people from the Model Railroader list involved to re-create an appropriate version of this:

PSR Wars, with Hunter playing the Emperor Palpatine character... as well as the Ed Khil Thomas face in place of the Trollio face Mike provided, dancing in the big musical number "A Pageant of Overlength Trains in the Blast Zone"

Great to see Ready Kilowatt in a cameo role in Hardware Wars, even though the movie seems to have a culinary taste to it!

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, September 22, 2019 12:33 PM

1) I figure 64 tires. That's a heck of a trailer. On the highway too!, think we are in Australia. Maybe fake? How do you strap this down? I see chains.

2) Small flat car, small Shay, too perfect! Perhaps if you had an uber rich Uncle you could have received this for your tenth birthday ( in lieu of and much better than a pony). 

3) waste not want not, but stack smoke? Lot of cleaning, no? 

4) Now those are some driving wheels and some far fetched ideas

Also 4 b & c ...an aero drive monorail express, well why not? .. the second seems like a good way to cross a desert. 

6) If you squint a bit you can see what a CN Centipede would look like

 

 

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, September 22, 2019 1:27 PM

Whew, those "Modern Mechanix" and "Modern Boy" covers!

It used to be said decades ago that to be a good journalist you needed three things...

1)  Writing skills.

2)  A good typewriter.

3)  A bottle of bourbon or scotch (Depending on your preference) in your desk drawer.

But for cover artists, maybe something a little stronger than the above, considering those covers!

Oh, yeah, I'd prefer a mini-Shay for Christmas to a pony!  At least you can turn the Shay off, in a manner of speaking.  The pony you can only put in "neutral," it's still turning over and generating "exhaust" even if you're not using it.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, September 22, 2019 2:40 PM

Miningman

3) waste not want not, but stack smoke? Lot of cleaning, no? 

This reminds me of another daydream in the classroom when I was young(er), a gigantic vacuums cleaner that can "remove" and collect all the pollutants in the sky. But of course, those folks in the planes and those friendly fluffy birds that sing-song to me every morning would be removed by this 1-mile tall vacuum cleaner as well.

I didn't notice the owner of douglas-self is still updating his/her amazing website with amazing content. I wonder if there was any steam locomotive built without a smokestack on purpose. Streamlined steam engine like the Loewy K4s and PRR S1 had a very short smokestack blend into the streamline shrouding, how about those un-streamlined? 

Miningman

4) Now those are some driving wheels and some far fetched ideas

Also 4 b & c ...an aero drive monorail express, well why not? .. the second seems like a good way to cross a desert. 

So, this is probably the train that runs between L.A, Chicago and New York in the sci-fiction movie. If L.A is not far enough, let's extend the route to Guam, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong...... The price of the train ticket is freedom, the cost of freedom and liberty is......

I was thinking about a PRR S1 with 90" or larger drivers, and a booster engine that gear connected to all the wheels on that 6-wheel truck, for a sci-fiction cartoon...

The trainset would be 20-car long, consist of 85ft long streamlined coaches and sleepers, with a unique streamlined shrouding cover the 6-wheel truck, like the CB&Q EMD E5, every "truck-cover" has 3 light bulbs which lit up the white wall wheels. There will be a library-lounge car for the guest to drink, and read the poems about drinking; a lecturer will amuse the passenger with his wisdom and free lecture will be arranged for our passengers learning about bargaining tips in 156 different foreign countries.

The 70-foot long ball pit pool on the double-deck recreation car, the largest in America, will let the children have fun all day long! The only thing their parent would worry about will be limited to how to get them off the pool, and this amazing train as well. While the child is screaming at 90dB in the ball pit, their parents can have a Turkish Bath on the upper deck or put their hands into the Jones patented, steam-powered "Automatic Nail Technician Machine" for the ladies...........to be continued Drinks

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 22, 2019 6:36 PM

Well once upon a time I drew up a Dreyf-O-Rail:

And a tank:

 

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, September 22, 2019 6:59 PM

I love that "Dreyf-O-Rail!"

That tank.  Wow.  That would have given General Patton nightmares, and that's saying something!  He usually gave other people like Nazis nightmares!

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, September 22, 2019 7:51 PM

"Think tanks" are also handy for wiring...

and filing...

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, September 23, 2019 11:53 AM

Penny Trains

"Think tanks" are also handy for wiring...

and filing...

Lovely! It reminds me of the Star War AT-AT walker, but much smaller, and probably smarter. Smile I want to pick up 3D modeling again, to create some fantasy train stuff and spare parts, detail parts that I can 3D print them for my train models.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, September 23, 2019 6:19 PM

I lost my data on it years ago but somewhere I have printed renderings of some of the other crazy 3D models I designed.  One was a gigantic 6 legged steam powered weapons platform with a lot of latticework in it's construction.  I also did a full model of that train complete with track and landscaping.  But then my computer crashed and....well.  You know how that song goes.  Sad

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, September 25, 2019 5:03 AM

Penny Trains

I lost my data on it years ago but somewhere I have printed renderings of some of the other crazy 3D models I designed.  One was a gigantic 6 legged steam powered weapons platform with a lot of latticework in it's construction.  I also did a full model of that train complete with track and landscaping.  But then my computer crashed and....well.  You know how that song goes.  Sad

I can understand that feeling! My first 3D project was a highly detailed fantasy long-distance-travel-trolleybus base on a German proposed 6-wheel Double Decker Trolleybus. I also made some vehicles that were supposed to be imported to a game, so that I could drive them in the game, roaming around the 3D city but turn out, the hard disk suddenly down! I had many stuff like custom made textures, TONS of different skyscrapers floorplan for my family business in that Hard Disk. Not all data was backup or saved....... I still keep that hard disk in my safe.EmailCoffee

I can recreate them anytime I want, but it is like painting, the original is always better than a copy of it. 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, September 25, 2019 8:14 AM

Jones1945
I wonder if there was any steam locomotive built without a smokestack on purpose.

There are several parts to this.

Some were built without stacks in 'the usual place', for example some of the British Franco-Crostis and the early Bulleid turf burner.  Usually the idea was that the combustion exhaust exited 'elsewhere' and any induced-draft or lighting-up action would occur there, so why waste time and money with an additional 'front end' setup where no gas would need to be ejected?

Seems to me that the general consensus was that a full stack arrangement (perhaps with just a blower under it rather than a full 'front end') was still desirable "for lighting up" (and this might have been easily related to smokejack placement in roundhouses/sheds) and you often see these amusingy retrofitted.

(2) An engine like the Niagara represented about the 'ultimate' in practical stack reduction where a conventional induced-draft arrangement was installed.  Note that here the idea was to run the boiler out to the practical limit of the loading gage while putting 79" drivers underneath, but some items (the sand arrangements and whistle being examples, the 'steam dome' as a collector, bell, and horn NOT examples) needed to be either atop or astride the boiler to work correctly.  So if there were any reason to minimize the outside 'visible' portion of the stack on a high-power American locomotive, this would be it.  Another prospective example is the arrangement on the German 05 class 4-6-4s, where if there were a reason to reduce stack height functionally to improve streamlining, it would very likely have been implemented.

Meanwhile, of course, some other large high-powered engines were actually increasing stack length (for the better performance it provides) -- ATSF went so far as to install air-operated extensions on some of its larger power to take full advantage of relatively unrestricted loading gage in portions of its route.  Here I will digress slightly in noting that someone with patience should confirm that the 3460 Blue Goose had one of these for operation... most American streamlining was more for appearance than drag reduction, this being perhaps the most pointed (although certainly not pointy) example, and the areas of the country where the stack would be erected are NOT full of potential clients who would be wowed by slavish devotion to the horizontal line at the smokebox area...

Remember that the 'stack' is only the outward manifestation of a very small part of the internal arrangement from petticoat up at the nozzle, and the longer a carefully-designed internal stack is, the better the front end can eject combustion gas for a given mass flow and exhaust pressure of steam.  This implies that every inch of available room above the shell of the smokebox will improve implicit smoke lifting in the exhaust plume (and reduce the need for external smoke deflectors, cowl scoops, or other artificial aids to control slipstream to keep smoke out of the view or the cab ventilation).  This becomes particularly important when high-efficiency valve arrangements are in use to generate 'best' horsepower with minimum mass flow and water rate -- the UP, which had chronic trouble figuring out "innovations" in its front ends, got into a problem by the late 1930s where its engines were so efficient that the draft developed at 80mph or higher was insufficient to sustain the necessary firing rate (this being in part where the twin stacks on the FEFs, and the four-stack arrangement proposed for the FEF-4, came in).

Now, the stuff I designed in the very early '70s explicitly made use of the principle of the Giesl ejector (which had been touted in Trains as the absolute ne plus ultra of the front-end world, and who was I at 12 years old to question that?) and this of course is very long and relatively thin, using a fan-shaped array of exhaust nozzles to generate a very long lateral entrainment region -- it is not "that" difficult to extend the design to multiple sets of nozzles, if you have room for the longer smokebox, which as it happens I did.  (There were attempts to run Giesls, and a couple of other arrangements, in 'parallel' to increase the ejected mass or provide less 'impingement' on overhead structures ... perhaps the less said about these, the better.)  Now, Giesls have the implicit characteristic that the stack 'length' at the ends is greater than that in the middle of the fan, so we can (at least, theoretically) apply Jos Koopmans' rule that multiple jets work as if the comparable number of long, thin chimneys and average over the length as a series of long, thin interpenetrating jets with good turbulent entrainment at their 'sides' and perhaps in the regions between them.  In theory you could absolutely minimize the visible stack height using this, and that is what I did -- and was very strongly criticized for not having enough height above the boundary flow over the smokebox to get decent lifting at 'minimum' back pressure.  I was able to explain some of my way out of this, but not all -- in part by positing that the 'surplus' exhaust from high-speed running which can't be vented effectively through a fixed-dimension front end would be ejected 'behind' the stack to 'lift' the plume (we were all 'green' on effective fluid dynamics once!) but I have come to the conclusion that you want the longest possible stack you can arrange, yes, tilting it if necessary, and do whatever outside shrouding you need to accommodate it in your streamlining (and provide external airflow correction to give proper plume clearance and lifting!)

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, September 25, 2019 5:10 PM

 

Overmod
Now, the stuff I designed in the very early '70s explicitly made use of the principle of the Giesl ejector (which had been touted in Trains as the absolute ne plus ultra of the front-end world, and who was I at 12 years old to question that?) and this of course is very long and relatively thin, using a fan-shaped array of exhaust nozzles to generate a very long lateral entrainment region -- it is not "that" difficult to extend the design to multiple sets of nozzles, if you have room for the longer smokebox, which as it happens I did.  (There were attempts to run Giesls, and a couple of other arrangements, in 'parallel' to increase the ejected mass or provide less 'impingement' on overhead structures ... perhaps the less said about these, the better.)  Now, Giesls have the implicit characteristic that the stack 'length' at the ends is greater than that in the middle of the fan, so we can (at least, theoretically) apply Jos Koopmans' rule that multiple jets work as if the comparable number of long, thin chimneys and average over the length as a series of long, thin interpenetrating jets with good turbulent entrainment at their 'sides' and perhaps in the regions between them.  In theory you could absolutely minimize the visible stack height using this, and that is what I did -- and was very strongly criticized for not having enough height above the boundary flow over the smokebox to get decent lifting at 'minimum' back pressure.  I was able to explain some of my way out of this, but not all -- in part by positing that the 'surplus' exhaust from high-speed running which can't be vented effectively through a fixed-dimension front end would be ejected 'behind' the stack to 'lift' the plume (we were all 'green' on effective fluid dynamics once!) but I have come to the conclusion that you want the longest possible stack you can arrange, yes, tilting it if necessary, and do whatever outside shrouding you need to accommodate it in your streamlining (and provide external airflow correction to give proper plume clearance and lifting!)

A_M_A_Z_I_N_G, Mr. Overmod.

Yes, the ATSF 3460 Blue Goose had an air-operated extensions on its smokestack. I don't know if it was an as-built feature or installed after she started serving. Although it looked odd on the Blue Goose, the unique air-operated smokestack extension was probably the reason why ATSF never install NYCRR-style elephant smoke deflector. If the extension wasn't an as-delivery feature, this implies the streamlining, probably designed by Baldwin (which cost ATSF $1400), wasn't good enough for smoke lifting. But the proposed streamlining of the ATSF 3765 and the streamlined 3460 was probably motivated by the 1939 World Fair instead of trying to prove how aerodynamic theory works on a steam engine like the NYC Commodore Vanderbilt and PRR Loewy K4s.

 \Who put that wig on the watermelon-like nose? 

Jos Koopmans? The author of 'The Fire Burns Much Better...'? Two hundred years of steam locomotive exhaust research? OH MY! Two hundred years! Give me more time so that I can read them all! Speaking of fluid dynamics, I found this page: https://www.autodesk.com/solutions/simulation/cfd-fluid-flow It would be interesting to see how good or bad different streamline shroudings design worked in our railroad history by using computer software.

Steam tram of Paris.

 

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, September 25, 2019 7:30 PM

Jones1945

 

 
Penny Trains

I lost my data on it years ago but somewhere I have printed renderings of some of the other crazy 3D models I designed.  One was a gigantic 6 legged steam powered weapons platform with a lot of latticework in it's construction.  I also did a full model of that train complete with track and landscaping.  But then my computer crashed and....well.  You know how that song goes.  Sad

 

 

I can understand that feeling! My first 3D project was a highly detailed fantasy long-distance-travel-trolleybus base on a German proposed 6-wheel Double Decker Trolleybus. I also made some vehicles that were supposed to be imported to a game, so that I could drive them in the game, roaming around the 3D city but turn out, the hard disk suddenly down! I had many stuff like custom made textures, TONS of different skyscrapers floorplan for my family business in that Hard Disk. Not all data was backup or saved....... I still keep that hard disk in my safe.EmailCoffee

I can recreate them anytime I want, but it is like painting, the original is always better than a copy of it. 

 

I had a bad habit of storing files in vulnerable directories.  Now I backup, backup, backup!  Wink

My current modeling project:

Problem is, it has to go from CGI to real world in an annoyingly short amount of time.  Wink

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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