Erie Canal- Clinchfield Boxcar

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, March 28, 2019 8:39 AM

Thanks Harrison!  And if you happen to see that antique car parked with the "457" license plate parked on the side of the road can you find out who owns it?   Wink

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 29, 2019 3:41 PM

Jeez, some days I just can't believe how lucky I get.

Found this video last night, just got through watching it.  It's a drones-eye view of the old right-of-way of the West Shore, from Frankfort to Clark Mills NY by way of Utica.

Great views and railroad (steam-powered, of course!) sound effects, with titles to tell you just where you are and just what you're looking at.  Thirty-three minutes long, there ARE rails at the 20 minute mark, it's an amazing show.  Some places you can tell there was a railroad there, other places it's like it never existed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BWjS9otgX8  

Enjoy the ride!

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, March 29, 2019 6:55 PM

Nice journey. A very pleasant video and a great find Wayne. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 29, 2019 9:13 PM

Flintlock76
Jeez, some days I just can't believe how lucky I get.

Found this video last night, just got through watching it.  It's a drones-eye view of the old right-of-way of the West Shore, from Frankfort to Clark Mills NY by way of Utica.

Great views and railroad (steam-powered, of course!) sound effects, with titles to tell you just where you are and just what you're looking at.  Thirty-three minutes long, there ARE rails at the 20 minute mark, it's an amazing show.  Some places you can tell there was a railroad there, other places it's like it never existed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BWjS9otgX8  

Enjoy the ride!

Amazed that most of the right of way has been 'claimed' by utility company pole line, there are way too many 'formerly' industrial concerns identified and I suspect a number of property owners have no idea why their property and buildings are oddly shaped.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 30, 2019 9:31 AM

You know Balt, it kind of makes sense a power company would utilize and abandoned railroad right-of-way.  The route was there, it was cleared, no-one was using it anyway, so why not?

Public Service Electric uses the abandoned right-of-way of the old North Jersey Rapid Transit interurban line ( abandoned in 1929 ) in Bergen County NJ for power lines, so seeing those power lines in the video didn't surprise me.

What did surprise me in the video was how some of the old railroad right-of-way has totally disappeared.  As I said, like it was never there at all.

PS:  I found those "former industrial" sites disturbing as well.  No point in going into that topic.  

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 30, 2019 10:12 AM

I believe catenary bridges are preserved over portions of the Atglen and Susquehanna (of sainted memory) and some other areas in the Philadelphia region because the 132kV lines are still in use.  

Flintlock76
What did surprise me in the video was how some of the old railroad right-of-way has totally disappeared.  As I said, like it was never there at all.

That's far from unusual.  Many railroad lines have a distressing tendency to disappear soon after going out of service -- look at portions of the Lackawanna Cutoff, perhaps the greatest of all North American earth-moving projects in its time, or some of the encroachments on the previous four-track main of the West Shore from Little Ferry up through Bergenfield.

I'm surprised at the persistence of the bridge (5:53 and after) and it would be interesting to see what Mike can turn up about its post-West Shore history.

Now we need one of these for the portion of the Belvedere-Delaware above the point of the bridge over Rt.46 that was wiped out in Hurricane Diane.  That was an interestingly-overbuilt piece of line that has almost disappeared beyond recognition in the intervening years...

PS:  I found those "former industrial" sites disturbing as well.  No point in going into that topic. 

I suppose Soros would become a proscribed topic, like hobos or politics, if we took this up in any detail.  <ahem> Marlin.

I suspect some of these areas of New York State were 'rust belt' long before Ohio or north Indiana -- perhaps even while New England was still hanging on.  I think it's a permissible topic to look at why those firms "relocated" -- or closed -- when they did.

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 30, 2019 10:15 AM

Flintlock76
And if you happen to see that antique car parked with the "457" license plate parked on the side of the road can you find out who owns it? 

OK, somebody with a copy of Thoroughbreds get it out and look for the reference pictures with Ed May's car in them.  Plates may be visible.

If someone here has access to the Edward L. May photographic collection -- he was apparently notorious for putting his car in compositions he shot.  At least some of those would show what he was driving before the early '50s.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 30, 2019 11:10 AM

Overmod states " I suppose Soros would become a proscribed topic, like hobos or politics, if we took this up in any detail.  <ahem> Marlin.

Chaos generator.. throw in Maurice Strong and Al Gore into the equation. The opposite of Empire Builders and Rail Barons. At least those guys built Nations.

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 30, 2019 4:19 PM

When they pointed out the old Savage Arms plant in Utica I got curious as to when it closed and why, being a old gun guy.  Savage had two locations, one in Chicopee Falls MA and the one in Utica.  In 1946 the Utica plant was closed and all production shifted to Chicopee Falls, where it remains today.

This was before the "Rust Belt" phenomenon set in, so I suppose the Utica plant was kept active for World War Two production, and when the war was over it just wasn't needed anymore.  Living on borrowed time, as it were.

The other closed factorys I'm unfamiliar with.

The "Rust Belt" phenomenon?  Getting into THAT I'm sure would put us into some taboo areas, but I'd imagine most of us have opinions about the causes that are pretty close to one anothers.

What frightens me is the day may come when we'll miss all that lost industry, very badly.  

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 30, 2019 4:22 PM

From Mike :

Ancient history possibly about power lines in Utica video. Rome on the map, home of late great Joe Boardman.

 
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, March 30, 2019 4:37 PM

Mike copied me in on that.  The ol' West Shore was really built, wasn't it?

I had no idea!

Another thing, adding to the mystery of that parked car.

If that "457" license plate is a New York plate it's atypical for the time.  Check this out...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_New_York  

Now I don't know what to think!

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 30, 2019 5:04 PM
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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 30, 2019 6:33 PM

WW III - if and when it comes will not resemble WW II.  That being said - whatever the weapons that are used will need to be produced in numbers that exceed their number at the start of the conflict - to do that will require the development of manufacturing capacity for those weapons.

WW II was won because the USA could produce weapons and manpower faster than the enemies could destroy those same weapons and manpower.  The USA saluted itself as the Arsnel of Democracy - and it was during WW II - supplying both weapons and manpower to all the Allies

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 30, 2019 6:58 PM
 
I would ride in this any day. What a beautiful car.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 30, 2019 11:03 PM

That 502 car above^ post had quite a journey!

that 502 car went pretty far in 1910

 
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 31, 2019 9:00 AM

Isn't that amazing?  I had no idea.

Imagine what it must have been like, a cross-country tour utilizing a brand-new technology, seeing the country in a way most people of the time never would.  Remember, only people of means traveled much in those days.  

Just amazing.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 31, 2019 9:08 AM

Isn't that amazing?  I had no idea.

Imagine what it must have been like, a cross-country tour utilizing a brand-new technology, seeing the country in a way most people of the time never would.  Remember, only people of means traveled much in those days.  

Just amazing.

You know, I can just imagine those distinguished gentlemen indulging in some adult beverages, getting a little silly, and belting out this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d3TDPE0K2c 

Can't you?

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 31, 2019 11:52 AM
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 31, 2019 3:15 PM

Amazing what Mike comes up with!  I don't know how he does it.

Man, the "Saturday Globe" sure loved Teddy Roosevelt, didn't they?  But then, just about everyone else did back in those days.  Teddy (He HATED being called "Teddy" by the way) was the last third-party candidate for president that had a chance at pulling it off, election of 1912.  If he hadn't been the victim of an attempted assassination (OK, so somebody  didn't like him) and lost a month's campaigning time he just might have made it.  Interesting to speculate how history might have been changed had that happened.

I clicked on one of the links and saw that color cover with the Chinese man and Uncle Sam.  Oh brother, less said about that the better!  Oh well, it was a different time.  

PS:  You could call him Theodore, you could call him governor, when he was in the White House obviously it was Mr. President, after the White House he preferred Colonel Roosevelt, but NEVER Teddy!

Speaking of which, care to hear Teddy, um, 'scuse me, Colonel  Roosevelt himself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noswhVX_uSA  

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 31, 2019 4:13 PM

Oneida RR car 502's trip to the Kentucky Derby was done mostly during daylight, from center-city hotel to center-city hotel.  The amount of food and alcoholic beverages consumed on the trip is simply amazing.

The entire trip was under 600 volt wire, except for the stretch from Utica to Syracuse, on the third-rail-equipped tracks of New York Central's West Shore, and a stretch of 1200 volt wire south of Indianapolis.  The car was presumably towed across the 1200 v  section, though the substation setup of the era would have allowed temporary operation at 600 volts.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 31, 2019 7:23 PM

Sounds like the Classic gang should have been aboard. The things we have lost would cost trillions to re build, just for this routing and trip. 

From Mike --- Utica--- great stuff, fascinatin.

Old Home Week 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, March 31, 2019 9:11 PM

I clicked on the "Ride The Harlem Line" link and saw the shots of the New York Central's Utica station.

What can I say?  Awesome. Stunning. Jawdropping.  All the power and the glory.

What happened?  What the hell happened?

Then I remembered.  Johnny Cash's words from that great TV special he did back in the 1970's, "Ridin' The Rails."  I heard them and never forgot them.  I quote...

"When was it the trains began to lose their glamor?  Well, I guess it was when the diesels came along.  The diesels had to come you know, they were cheaper to run. But somehow, they just didn't have that awesome fire-breathing presense the steam locomotives had."

"WE changed too, you know.  After World War Two we entered the "Air Age,"  and airline pilots became our new heroes."  

"Oh the trains still run, but somehow, it's just not the same."

Wise man, Johnny.  And a great storyteller.  I think he nailed it better than anyone.

 

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 31, 2019 10:06 PM

Agred with that Flintlock. The loss of steam caused the loss of the romance with the rails. Once the novelty of the Diesels quickly wore off people just shrugged. How many times in the 50's did you read about the lamenting and longing for steam whistles and sounds, followed by the mocking of Diesel horns. 

A certain cohort of kids liked watching the Diesels but I'm not in that group. I hated them, called them stupid and dumb. Who cares, turned around right away, not worthy of recognition. 

To this very day I dont think I've ever been excited about seeing a Diesel. Ya, ya, big flippin deal, a Diesel. Big whoop. 

Folks that grew up with steam know better. Consider myself fortunate being in Southern Ontario as the railroad was steam as the normal. 

Its total loss was not noticeable until the spring of '59 then it ended real quick and sudden like. For folks like Overmod and CSSHEGEWISCH this never happened. Steam was rare and all but gone by '55, hung on in certain geographic areas like GTW, parts of IC, Long Island commuter, NKP Berkshires along Lake Erie.

The public were not captivated by Diesel, from kids to seniors. Trains had lost their lustre, uniqueness, fascination, romance, and it all started  with the wretched Diesel.

Folks come out in droves anywhere to see steam. Imagine an entire railroad run by steam and all its attendant coolness.    

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, April 01, 2019 9:54 AM

You know Vince, I think young Mr. Harrison, who graciously posted those railfan shots for us, and who has a pretty good railfan video posted under "General Discusssion" in the "Trains" magazine Forum, is probably the lucky one.

With no first-hand recollections of the great age of railroading, and it's probably more legend than reality for him, kind of like World War Two is becoming (Have you noticed?  I have.)  he's making the most of what he's got now, and having a lot of fun with it.  Good for him!  His enthusiasm is wonderful!

You can't miss what you've never known. 

Wayne 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, April 01, 2019 10:16 AM

Miningman

The public were not captivated by Diesel, from kids to seniors. Trains had lost their lustre, uniqueness, fascination, romance, and it all started  with the wretched Diesel.

Speak for yourself.  I never really saw steam era railroading (nor do I regret not seeing it) and yet I became totally fascinated with modern railroading in all its forms and I still am.  I still come to trackside hoping to see what's new as well as that which dates back to my youth.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, April 01, 2019 5:36 PM

Miningman

Nickel Plate

 
Cheers, Miningman. I love that extra headlight/mars light on the NKP 759... 
 
Tags: NKP 759

Jones Family Railroad Hobby YouTube Channel: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu9gt9Q9RF-Hwq7xWciVcWg/

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, April 01, 2019 7:28 PM

Thanks to Mike and others it looks like we're all learning more about Utica and the West Shore than we ever thought possible!

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, April 01, 2019 10:21 PM

Yeah pretty amazing isn't it. Must be 40-50 freight handlers in that photo. That ariel yard scene shows the power and importance of the railroad. It truly is stunning as to how much that has been diminished. 

 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Tuesday, April 02, 2019 1:51 PM

rcdrye

The entire trip was under 600 volt wire, except for the stretch from Utica to Syracuse, on the third-rail-equipped tracks of New York Central's West Shore, and a stretch of 1200 volt wire south of Indianapolis.  The car was presumably towed across the 1200 v  section, though the substation setup of the era would have allowed temporary operation at 600 volts.

The 1200V section was supplied directly from an engine driven 1200V generator, so the substation option was not available. That line was converted to 600VDC operation ca 1921 with automatic substations running off of commercial power.

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