World's fair wonder

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, February 07, 2019 6:39 AM

Jones1945

I guess the SAL added the nose door on 3014, year unknown...

https://www.shorpy.com/node/19490

 

 

The photo I had wasn't that clear...

So there must have been a door in the unwashed area....

So both 3013 and 3014 lacked the nose doors at the World's Fair and had them added later (assuming that the earlier posted photo was of 3013 at the Fair.)

I had seen that entry on Shorpy but had forgotten it...

Peter

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, February 10, 2019 5:33 AM

M636C

 

The photo I had wasn't that clear...

So there must have been a door in the unwashed area....

So both 3013 and 3014 lacked the nose doors at the World's Fair and had them added later (assuming that the earlier posted photo was of 3013 at the Fair.)

I had seen that entry on Shorpy but had forgotten it...

Peter

I believe the doors were added on them after they were built, therefore there was a brass model for the "smooth nose" version of # 3014. Speaking of SAL's nose door, I guess it was a safety measure for the crews wasn't it? The original nose door design on SAL #4500 was in the line of their needs! 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 10, 2019 5:02 PM

M636C
 
Jones1945

I guess the SAL added the nose door on 3014, year unknown...

https://www.shorpy.com/node/19490 

The photo I had wasn't that clear...

So there must have been a door in the unwashed area....

So both 3013 and 3014 lacked the nose doors at the World's Fair and had them added later (assuming that the earlier posted photo was of 3013 at the Fair.)

I had seen that entry on Shorpy but had forgotten it...

Peter

My belief is that all the early SAL E-3's had nose doors - configured to push out to be opened.  Otherwise they stayed recessed in the shape of the nose.

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Posted by seppburgh2 on Monday, February 18, 2019 8:04 PM
A little off topic, but why are there no more World Fairs? Was at the NYC and the Montreal fairs when I was a kid. Sad to think what kids are missing out on.
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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, February 18, 2019 9:37 PM

World's Fairs are money losers so none have happened in the US for decades.  It seems only losing sporting events are supported.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, February 18, 2019 10:35 PM

MidlandMike

World's Fairs are money losers so none have happened in the US for decades.  It seems only losing sporting events are supported.

 

Don't kid yourself.  Somebody's  making money on those sporting events or there wouldn't be any more of them either.  

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 8:43 AM

seppburgh2
A little off topic, but why are there no more World Fairs? Was at the NYC and the Montreal fairs when I was a kid. Sad to think what kids are missing out on

Because there is no need to put every new product and idea from different industries all in one single event anymore. Corporation and the general public from all around the world have a lot of ways to reach their costumer and understand the most updated info of different industries on a daily basis; from the television, radio, publishment, advertisement, exhibition, global fair and today's internet... ComputerCoffee

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:55 AM

So World Fairs have been replaced by ' look it up on line'. Can't think of anything dumber and less exciting.

 This was supposed to be where 20-30 years into the future and grand human achievement existed. Oh well we still have the lesser insightful and commercial Trade Fairs and Car Shows... for now anyway.

I shudder to think history being replaced by simulations.

We are all getting dumber..... and manipulated. 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:39 AM

Miningman

So World Fairs have been replaced by ' look it up on line'. Can't think of anything dumber and less exciting.

 This was supposed to be where 20-30 years into the future and grand human achievement existed. Oh well we still have the lesser insightful and commercial Trade Fairs and Car Shows... for now anyway.

I shudder to think history being replaced by simulations.

We are all getting dumber..... and manipulated.  

 

"Jones1945 explains to Miningman that the Matrix is an illusory world created to prevent humans from discovering that they are slaves to an external influence. Holding out a capsule on each of his palms, he describes the choice facing Miningman:

This is your chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more." CoffeeBlindfold

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:11 AM

Wherever I can get a pizza with double anchovies, bacon, mushrooms, green olives and pepperoni of course. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 6:35 PM

Ah, the 1939 New York World's Fair, the greatest world's fair, at least according to Mom, she was there!  And more than once too!

I'll never forget the ride home from the 1964 World's Fair, and Mom saying "Oh, that was fun, but the 1939 fair was a LOT better!"

"Awwwww, Mommmmmmm...."

Kind of makes sense though, 1939 was the greatest year for movies too,  "The Watershed Year" it's been called by film historians.  Those same historians say you could make a career out of studying the films released by Hollywood in 1939. 

Let's see, "The Wizard of Oz," "Gone With The Wind," "Stagecoach," "Wuthering Heights," "Dodge City," "The Hound Of The Baskervilles..."

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 7:24 PM

seppburgh2
A little off topic, but why are there no more World Fairs? Was at the NYC and the Montreal fairs when I was a kid. Sad to think what kids are missing out on.

The next one is in Dubai: http://www.expomuseum.com/2020/

The last one was inb Kazakhstan: http://www.expomuseum.com/2017/

  1. 2005 Japan
  2. 2008 Spain
  3. 2010 Shanghai
  4. 2012 South Korea
  5. 2015 Italy

The last fairs in the USA were 1982 Knoxville Tenn. and 1984 New Orleans.

I went to this one:

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:25 PM

Why the dearth of World's Fairs in the US?  After Disney built EPCOT, what more could you want?

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 11:50 PM

Flintlock76

Kind of makes sense though, 1939 was the greatest year for movies, "The Watershed Year" it's been called by film historians.  Those same historians say you could make a career out of studying the films released by Hollywood in 1939. 

Let's see, "The Wizard of Oz," "Gone With The Wind," "Stagecoach," "Wuthering Heights," "Dodge City," "The Hound Of The Baskervilles..."

What? No mention of "Union Pacific"?

In some ways it makes sense that 1939 would be the best year for the movies with the economy starting to get back on its feet and the European theater of WW2 not starting later in the year. It took a few post war years for the economy and mood return to somewhat normal, but TV was having an impact.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:21 AM

Well jeez Erik, I couldn't mention 'em all! 

OK, here's a few more...

"Confessions Of A Nazi Spy,"  "Dark Victory," "Goodby Mr. Chips,"  "Young Mr. Lincoln,"  "Drums Along The Mohawk,"  which doesn't refer to that classic 4-8-2 operated by the NYC, "Gunga Din,"  "Beau Geste,"  wow, gotta stop!

How did anyone  make the time to see all those movies?  

I just followed a link "Penny Trains" suggested and guess what's on there, a whole buncha 1939 World's Fair railroad stuff!  Check this out...

http://www.rgusrail.com/nynywf.html   Locomotives displayed!

Bottom arrow, scroll to the right to see everything.  

http://www.rgusrail.com/fairnynywf.html  The railroad's fair brochures!

Same as above.  NOW I understand how a seven-year-old Dave Klepper was turned into a fanatic railfan for life!  "American Railroads" must have made one hell of an impression on him!

If the whole '39 Fair was this  good it's no wonder my mother says it was better than the one in'64!  There wasn't anything  this cool in 1964!

Here's the main link to the site.  http://www.rgusrail.com  

You won't believe what's in there!   Thanks Becky!  Thanks so much!

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 6:07 PM

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 6:52 PM

Oh that's cool!

Since we're on a "World's Fair" roll, looky what I found...

Two amateur home movies from the 1939 Fair, shot on 16mm film and pretty well done.

This one's four minutes long, and features one of the locomotives we've been discussing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT8piY6kYNo  

This one's twelve minutes long, mostly of the "Railroads on Parade" pageant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUZGLL26_e8  

Hope everyone likes 'em as much as I did!

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:18 AM

Miningman

 

On a bittersweet note, it was confirmed on RyPN last week that the very last of the special D&H 'World's Fair' coaches has finally been scrapped.  (Jones1945 will relish the link to Raymond Loewy, I think!)

Perhaps Mike can research their history and provide us with some interesting pictures. I know of very little 'scholarship' on the long-distance services developed to serve prospective Fair traffic, as opposed to the last-mile service to Flushing Meadows.  (And I suspect there will be a glaring absence of similar promotions on the parts of any Northeastern railroads still providing passenger service for the '64-'65 Fair ... hope I'm very wrong.)

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:14 AM

Flintlock76

Oh that's cool!

Since we're on a "World's Fair" roll, looky what I found...

Two amateur home movies from the 1939 Fair, shot on 16mm film and pretty well done.

This one's four minutes long, and features one of the locomotives we've been discussing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT8piY6kYNo  

This one's twelve minutes long, mostly of the "Railroads on Parade" pageant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUZGLL26_e8  

Hope everyone likes 'em as much as I did! 

Those are some very great film of the 39-40 World's Fair, Wayne. The 39-40 World's Fair took 3 years (1936) to construct and prepare. When I saw the Loewy K4s moving onto the stage, I have a thought that all these beautiful streamlined steam engines, like the Dreyfuss Hudson and Loewy's K4s, were prepared to appear in the World's Fair before they were built. 

I am not familiar with NYCentral's history, but according to "PRR Chronology", it mentioned about Raymond Loewy wrote a letter (a few year before the World's Fair) to PRR, expressed his will to participate in 1939-1940 World Fair. Loewy wanted his works to be remembered by the whole world but the Dreyfuss Hudson successfully grabbed the limelight of the prewar world since 1938, one year before the World's Fair, but the PRR still have one "open secret weapon" under construction. Note the (overly) streamlined shrouding of 3768 (Loewy K4s) was kept intact until the end of 1939-1940 World's Fair. 

It is also interesting to see how the LMS from the UK sent a Coronation Scot trainset with streamlined skirting and a modified "Club (observation) car" at the end of the consist. The Coronation Scot never used that maroon + golden stripes livery, had no skirting and observation club car when running in the UK. 

((( NO!!! )))

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, February 21, 2019 6:00 AM

It is also interesting to see how the LMS from the UK sent a Coronation Scot trainset with streamlined skirting and a modified "Club (observation) car" at the end of the consist. The Coronation Scot never used that maroon + golden stripes livery, had no skirting and observation club car when running in the UK. 

The train the LMS sent to the 1939 World's Fair was one of two sets being built to replace the 1937 Coronation Scot trains in 1940. The train that went to the fair was missing an articulated pair of sitting cars which included guard's and luggage space. These were replaced by a sleeping car and a club car to accomodate the crew travelling with the train on the tour of the USA. The other train was completed after WWII but was not fitted with skirting and was painted in standard maroon without the gold stripes, and the cars returned from the USA were similarly altered.

The club car was not an observation. It had two end windows in the guard's compartment which was a very common feature of British trains. The guard's compartment at the opposite end of the World's fair train in the articulated sitting cars had identical end windows.

Only locomotives 6220-6224 were blue and silver. 6225-6229 were red and gold and 6230-6234 were unstreamlined painted maroon. The locomotive that went to the USA was 6229 painted red and gold. It was renamed and renumbered as 6220, while 6220 was renumbered 6229 but remained blue and silver.

So the train that went to the USA represented the train intended for normal service in 1940, but these never entered service due to WWII starting in September 1939. The only changes were the sleeping car and the club car for the travelling crew.

The train cars were not returned to the UK until the war ended.

Peter

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, February 21, 2019 6:21 AM

M636C

....The club car was not an observation. It had two end windows in the guard's compartment which was a very common feature of British trains. The guard's compartment at the opposite end of the World's fair train in the articulated sitting cars had identical end windows.

Only locomotives 6220-6224 were blue and silver. 6225-6229 were red and gold and 6230-6234 were unstreamlined painted maroon. The locomotive that went to the USA was 6229 painted red and gold. It was renamed and renumbered as 6220, while 6220 was renumbered 6229 but remained blue and silver.

So the train that went to the USA represented the train intended for normal service in 1940, but these never entered service due to WWII starting in September 1939. The only changes were the sleeping car and the club car for the traveling crew.

The train cars were not returned to the UK until the war ended.

Peter

Thank you very much, Peter; for the detailed info of the Coronation Class and Coronation Scot, my favorite streamlined engine when I was a child! I always think that the LMS Stanier D1902 65′ restaurant open first (or third) car itself was already as luxury and comfort as a buffet lounge car or even a dining car in America in the 1940s, let alone there was at least two kitchen car in the consist of a Coronation Scot.

But the travel time of the Coronation Scot was only 6 hours 30 mins, unlike many LD premier train in the States, I shouldn't compare an apple with an orange. Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:02 AM

Overmod-- Thanks for pointing out the fate of the D&H coach. It must have been beyond the beyond to have been scrapped. Not good to lose pieces like this. 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:49 AM

Miningman

Overmod-- Thanks for pointing out the fate of the D&H coach. It must have been beyond the beyond to have been scrapped. Not good to lose pieces like this. 

 

Thank you Miningman for posting that 1933 World's Fair poster. 1933 was the golden age of Art Deco world, I love the style, the tones of the color and the overall layout, especially how they highlight the engine with a light circle.

Regarding the D&H Coach built for the World's Fair, here is an article of it, another Raymond Loewy's work:

https://zh.scribd.com/document/97209493/D-H-World-s-Fair-Cars 

 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:24 AM

I was never able to get to a world's fair. The closest I ever came was reading a book, entitled Trylongs and Perisites, that we had. It was a compendium of  how to discourage out of town relatives or friends from coming to sponge upon you and how to get rid of them if they should come to stay at your house when they came to see the 1939 Fair.

Johnny

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:44 AM

Deggesty

I was never able to get to a world's fair. The closest I ever came was reading a book, entitled Trylongs and Parasites, that we had. It was a compendium of  how to discourage out of town relatives or friends from coming to sponge upon you and how to get rid of them if they should come to stay at your house when they came to see the 1939 Fair. 

Johnny, you made my day! I just finished cleaning my laughing tears...

I expect the book included all of the creative and funny excuses for a property owner to protect his personal space. If someone has a guest house available, (not guest room), it would be fine. But living in a relatively small apartment in the Big Apple with one or two more family guests for a week must be painful. Some may consider it an ultra-generous "virtue" but imagine after you worked hard for 8 hours straight in office and finally came home after a serious traffic jam, only to find out that there were some long queues outside all the toilets of your apartment and your metal train collection is abusing by your friend's 5-years old children... Coffee 

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, February 21, 2019 1:33 PM

I don't remember all that the book contained (I thought I saved it when I had to downside six years ago); one suggestion was that your son sit out front with a rifle at hand; another was that you install pay toilets in the house; a third one, that might work with a maiden aunt, was that you and your wife eat breakfast au naturel.

I also do not remember the definition of "trylong," but "perisite" is self-explanatory.

Johnny

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, February 21, 2019 1:46 PM

"Trylongs and Perisites,"  that's hysterical!  A neat twist on "Trylon and Perisphere."

Now THAT'S a book I'm going to keep an eye out for in my travels, there's got to be one out there somewhere.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, February 21, 2019 6:14 PM
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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, February 21, 2019 7:22 PM

Yes, that's the book! Thanks, Mike.

Note the swarm of trylongs and perisites that are about to descend upon an unsuspecting householder in New York City.

I was still in grammar school when I first read the book--and found it amusing.

Johnny

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