Rail Car Ferries

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, December 02, 2018 10:59 PM

Firelock76
Balt, I found one of the buses!   However, I don't think it's part of the yard sale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9zgQc0kTBw 

Interesting short film on the B&O 51 restoration.  Too bad it deteriorated to the shape it's in, but then EMD probably never expected it to be around 80 years after delivery.   I wonder if it's possible to bring it back to operation?  Too much to hope for?

EA's were powered with Winton 201A prime movers.  I don't know what, if any electrical gear may have been returned with the carbody.  I doubt the restoration is intended to make the unit operatable.

While the bus 'looks' authentic, the location board on it shows it as being a 1957 model and the B&O ceased passenger opration to New York at the end of April 1958.  I would think the a penurious as the B&O was, they would not put capital investment into assets that would soon be worthless to the operation of the railroad.

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, December 03, 2018 12:09 AM

Overmod

The principal terminal was in perhaps the most notable of surviving New York Art Deco buildings, the Chanin building, with a loop so the bus could quickly turn around without negotiating much traffic.  Other stops included 9th St. (at what was then Wanamaker's) and the Hotel Vanderbilt.

The Chanin Building has a similar design to the never finished The MetLife North Building (11-25 Madison Avenue) which was designed by the architect Harvey Wiley Corbettand and supposed to be the next world's tallest building with 100 storeys at 1400ft tall after the Empire State Building. Due to the Great Depression, construction work came to a halt in 1933. Only 29 storeys of the original plan had been completed. The Eleven Madison Park is located there.

Take a 100mph steam train to see the 100 storeys art deco skyscraper in the big apple, how could I ask for more?

Firelock76

Hey, I lucked out!  I went looking for some You Tube video of the CNJ terminal and found a four minute video.  Pre and post-war shots, with the B&O buses and trains included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rj1VTVkfcw

Wow, nice found, Firelock76. Is that a pre-war bus of B&O in the clip? the logo was quite large on the bus. "Those who know, use the B&O". Yes why not...

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Monday, December 03, 2018 12:31 AM

 

FYI.,
 
NYC Jade Green Steam?
 
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 03, 2018 1:15 AM

Jade Green steam, indeed.  And even more fun (and relevant to recent posts!) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfkMQS7R1rg

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, December 03, 2018 11:29 AM

NDG
FYI.,
 
NYC Jade Green Steam?
 
 

Thank You.

Thank you very much, NDG, for the 9 mins quality break like fresh air in my life. Good old days when Barbra was so young and charming and the classic skyline of New York City in the 1960s. When the movie was shooting on films and the Hollywood was not flooded with CGI where actors, actress as well as the whole crew were working in front of a green screen. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, December 03, 2018 7:04 PM

Balt, I didn't really  expect the B&O Museum to get 51 fully operational again, but who knows?  Stranger things have happened.  Of course, that would be contingent on having somewhere to run it, it wouldn't make sense to spend a ton of money just to have it "...all dressed up with nowhere to go!"

That B&O bus?  A 1957 model certainly, but maybe it was purchased before the 1958 decision came down?  Or maybe just two parts of a big company just not talking to one another?  It's been known to happen.

It really doesn't matter.  If it's a "fakeroo" look at it this way, someone remembered and cared enough to make an ersatz B&O bus for everyone to enjoy.

Love those Babs on the tug shots!   Yeah, the jade green paint job isn't correct for the early 20th Century, neither are the NYC logos, but at least it's a steam tug.  Surprisingly, most NYC steam powered tugs kept their steam engines right to the end, only a handful were converted to diesel.

One of the best parts of "Funny Girl."  Thanks for posting!

Mr. Jones, the black and white bus on the turntable film is pre-war, the color shots are post-war. 

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 03, 2018 7:43 PM

Jones1945
Cute little engine.

But not as cute as this.

Why there isn't a Thomas character for this, I don't know...

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, December 03, 2018 8:00 PM

That CP 1000 looks more like a Civil War ironclad than a diesel locomotive!

Formidable, to say the least.

Honestly, I'd never heard of the Chanin Building until Mr. Jones brought it up, so I did some looking and found this...

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID019.htm

I was amazed!  You know, I think one could spend his or her entire life studying the architecture of New York City and never fail to find something new. 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, December 03, 2018 9:17 PM

Firelock76

Balt, I didn't really expect the B&O Museum to get 51 fully operational again, but who knows?  Stranger things have happened.  Of course, that would be contingent on having somewhere to run it, it wouldn't make sense to spend a ton of money just to have it "...all dressed up with nowhere to go!"

Mr. Jones, the black and white bus on the turntable film is pre-war, the color shots are post-war. 

Thanks, Firelock76. Judging from the film, those well decorated pre-war buses had a mid-engine layout and soft suspension springs. It wouldn't be hard to find a new owner for those 1957 model in the second-hand market, and it wasn't too late for B&O to convert them into railbus for commuter services in remote areas..."Better than no service!" ... Maybe a Mini version of the Aerotrain? CoffeeIndifferent

If I can choose only one locomotive from the B&O Museum to restore a fully operational state, I would pick C&O Class L 4-6-4 "Homemade-Hudson" instead of #51, even though the former looks like the cute little Stuart the Minion. That would bring us back a working Franklin oscillating cam poppet valve gear, steam booster engine and one more functional streamlined steam engine after T1 5550. But as you say..." all dressed up with nowhere to go!" ......

If the parties concerned keep trying to get rid of steam locomotive form their railway network. I wish there will be an upgrade of the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago for a much larger space of railroad exhibits including functional steam locomotives. There is enough space to build at least one single 1.43km long track (include a turntable) next to S Lake Shore Dr. But funding will be a big problem. Steam trains should be allowed to running on the existing system in the first place.

Source: https://mds.marshall.edu/rail/4/

Jelf Terry's Photo

Guess which headlight is brighter? 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, December 03, 2018 9:40 PM

Overmod

But not as cute as this.

Why there isn't a Thomas character for this, I don't know...

Oh my.... you always bring us something interesting, aren't you? CoffeeSmile, Wink & Grin

This is MAK-1000 of the mid-1950s, Built by Maschinenbau Kiel of Germany as diesel hydraulic MAK-1000 demonstrator unit for CPR. 800 Hp, 4-stroke MaK-MA-301A engine with a Voith Hydraulic transmission. A very rare engine. A character who sometimes speak German in "Thomas the Tank Engine" would be interesting though.

Engine info and pics:

http://www.cprdieselroster.com/Roster%20Archive/CP%201000B/CP%201000.htm

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Monday, December 03, 2018 10:40 PM
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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, December 03, 2018 10:50 PM

Firelock76

Honestly, I'd never heard of the Chanin Building until Mr. Jones brought it up, so I did some looking and found this...

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/MID019.htm

I was amazed!  You know, I think one could spend his or her entire life studying the architecture of New York City and never fail to find something new. 

Definitely, Firelock76. I always imagine I can travel back to the mid-1930s, working or living in every single Art Deco office building for a while, so that I can use the facilities of every single building and knows all the secret and floor plans on the top floors, find the best place to enjoy the skyline of New York City with different unaccessible-for-tourist-angle! And of course, jot down every single interesting story about the people I met. Laugh

Art Deco is a perfect match for everything in my book, especially skyscrapers and transportation like streamlined trains! This is why I am fascinated by S1, T1, NYCentral and MILW Hudsons and feel disappointed for the demise of PRR F.O.M livery.

Noted architect César Pelli have a lot of works (not all) using Art Deco styling elements in the past 30 years. Like those setbacks, lightings and those rooftops structure pattern which you could see on the Chanin Building. But they are not as attractive as those Art Deco skyscrapers for me.Coffee

 

"Train futuriste" by Emmanuel Zurin (43 inches long) 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 5:12 PM

Mr. Jones, you and my wife Lady Firestorm have something in common, she's a BIG Art Deco fan.  Remember that movie from the '70s, "Murder On The Orient Express?"  We went to see it and when they rolled the titles she gasped, "Oh!  Look at the Art Deco!"  She was in heaven!  Great film, by the way.

Here's a peek for those who haven't seen it, but I'd bet most of us "Classic Trains" people certainly have!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps3IPtYxYZs

I think that second photo you posted would be her dream car!

She also loves Art Nouveau, but of course that design school never made it on to steam locomotives or automobiles.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 7:09 PM

A 6-24-6?!?!?  Tongue Tied

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 7:36 PM

Penny Trains

A 6-24-6?!?!?  Tongue Tied

 

It'd be rough on curves, but I'll bet it could pull anything, up to and including the roundhouse, backshop, and yard office!

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 8:49 PM

Firelock76
I think that second photo you posted would be her dream car!

One very like it can be yours for a mere (and I mean no sarcasm!) 13,500 euros.

https://www.masterposters.com/artist-zurini-emmanuel.html

 

She also loves Art Nouveau, but of course that design school never made it on to steam locomotives or automobiles.[/quote]

Plenty of examples in the 'unbuilt' and example-car worlds pre-Streamline Moderne: cf. almost everything that was a 'car of the future' before the '20s.  For example:  Harry Grant Dart.

(Now, if I could only find one of those aluminum windowboxes with outline Art Deco locomotives on them.  Saw one in an antique shop in the East 80s many years ago, and have regretted not buying it ever since -- and those were the days before cameras in phones!)

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 9:50 PM

Firelock76
 
Penny Trains

A 6-24-6?!?!?  Tongue Tied 

It'd be rough on curves, but I'll bet it could pull anything, up to and including the roundhouse, backshop, and yard office!

Who could keep steam up?

         

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 10:59 PM

Firelock76

Mr. Jones, you and my wife Lady Firestorm have something in common, she's a BIG Art Deco fan.  Remember that movie from the '70s, "Murder On The Orient Express?"  We went to see it and when they rolled the titles she gasped, "Oh!  Look at the Art Deco!"  She was in heaven!  Great film, by the way.

I think that second photo you posted would be her dream car!

She also loves Art Nouveau, but of course that design school never made it on to steam locomotives or automobiles.

haha, I remember you said you and Lady Firestorm also prefer Slant nose to bulldog nose of EMD Diesel. From Baroque to the period of Art Deco, I love all the styling between these two time periods except architecture from the Victorian era, they still looked great but I don't feel attracted by them. Art Nouveau in interior design can be nice too. Gustav Klimt is one of my favorite artists. 

The car you mentioned is a sculpture of Emmanuel Zurini, he has some fascinating works of streamlined fantasy trains and cars. The sculpture which Penny train found  "Tongue Tied" is inspired by PRR S1 #6100 aka Raymond Loewy's "bullet train". Smile, Wink & Grin This 6-24-6 should have appeared in my next sci-fi anime, an Ultra High-Speed trains connect the New York to L.A at 686 mph -- The 686 Limited DrinksCool

By the way, let's go back to the topic of this post Wink

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, December 04, 2018 11:34 PM

Overmod

One very like it can be yours for a mere (and I mean no sarcasm!) 13,500 euros.

https://www.masterposters.com/artist-zurini-emmanuel.html

(Now, if I could only find one of those aluminum windowboxes with outline Art Deco locomotives on them.  Saw one in an antique shop in the East 80s many years ago, and have regretted not buying it ever since -- and those were the days before cameras in phones!)

I thought my silly brass trains collection were something good enough to show off (just kidding!) before I know the price of Emmanuel Zurini's works. Embarrassed 

CoffeeShy

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Posted by Fr.Al on Friday, December 07, 2018 1:10 PM

I don't believe anyone has mentioned the boats which took trains from Mackinaw City in Lower Michigan to St. Ignace in the Upper Pennisula. There was a picture in the Winter 2015 CT. A black RSD-1 of the DSS&A is shown pulling a train off the boat at St. Ignace. As the article mentioned, by the summer of 1955, the train was gone. A RDC replaced it, but the bridge which connected Lower Michigan with the"UP" was completed in late 1957 and the RDC service ended in January 1958.

       On another note, that one Center Cab GM unit looks like a GE 44 tonner mated with Mom's '60 Chevy Station Wagon!

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, December 07, 2018 11:04 PM

I don't remember if we mentioned the Lake Michigan carferries of AA, C&O and GTW.  There were more in the early days, including the Mich & Wis which almost ran the length of the Lake.  In Lake Superior about 40 years ago there was a barge ferry between Thunder Bay and Duluth.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, December 08, 2018 10:03 AM

The "Incan Superior" was an open-deck carferry that operated between the points mentioned spring through fall only in the mid to late 1970's.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, December 10, 2018 10:14 AM

Fr.Al
I don't believe anyone has mentioned the boats which took trains from Mackinaw City in Lower Michigan to St. Ignace in the Upper Pennisula. There was a picture in the Winter 2015 CT. A black RSD-1 of the DSS&A is shown pulling a train off the boat at St. Ignace. As the article mentioned, by the summer of 1955, the train was gone. A RDC replaced it, but the bridge which connected Lower Michigan with the"UP" was completed in late 1957 and the RDC service ended in January 1958.

DSS&A trains 1 and 2 originated at the PRR/NYC station in Mackinaw City where the mail cars and single coach were shoved onto the "Chief Wawatam" (or the Sainte Marie II) for the trip across the straits.  DSS&A handled them with a 4-6-0 or a boiler-equipped RS1 to Marquette until August 1955.  DSS&A converted all mail and express handling to truck with the arrival of the RDC, which only ran from the ferry terminal at St. Ignace, replacing the onetime Lake Superior Limited.  The PUC allowed the tri-weekly trains to Duluth-Superior to go at the same time trains 1 and 2 were replaced.

A footnote on the RDC is that it was actually owned by Canadian Pacific - really it's intended destination once the Michigan PUC realized that the crew of the RDC outnumbered passengers on most days.

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