Classic Trains in Computer Simulations (Trainz, Train Simulator 2020)

[Jones1945]

I am not the developer of any train simulation product but a user of them. I am afraid that only forum member who knows how different 3D physics engines work and the formula they are using could give you a satisfactory and satisfying answer.

Rendering of wheel slip of a locomotive is not something new, the Microsoft Train Simulator from 2001 can render a locomotive wheel slipping if the engineer(user) applies too much power to the drivers. 

At least it is historically correct that PRR S1 #6100 was prone to wheel slip and "starting problem". If a simulator using 3d physics engines could not simulate such a situation, it is not a realistic simulator in my book. 

What a 3D physics engines in 2009 can do:

This is another train simulator  "Railworks Train Simulator", the rival of Trainz Simulator. The game using a better graphics engine but focus on the UK and the EU market. Editing the configuration files in this simulator or creating your own trains is for "PC Guru" only. This video shows how it simulate wheel slip of an engine.

[Jones1945]

This is the first video of me "driving" the 3D NYCentral Dreyfuss Hudson and the 20th Century Limited in the Trainz Simulator, more video will be uploaded for fun! 

 

[BaltACD]

Jones1945

This is the first video of me "driving" the 3D NYCentral Dreyfuss Hudson and the 20th Century Limited in the Trainz Simulator, more video will be uploaded for fun! 

 

Great effort!

Minor complaints - NYC and most US roads operate on the right hand track in double track territory.  The 20th Century, I belive had a 5 PM departure and was rarely on the track in the early afternoon as your lighting would indicate.

[Flintlock76]

Well you drove that Dreyfuss pretty well Mr. Jones!

A lot better than this kid drives his streamliner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ox3IAwYL2w  

By the way, how'd you get the locomotive to pass through the bridge without wrecking it?

Oh, I know, it's a "Ghost Train!"  BOOOOOOO!!!   A dream of things past!

 

[Jones1945]

BaltACD

 

Great effort!

Minor complaints - NYC and most US roads operate on the right hand track in double track territory.  The 20th Century, I belive had a 5 PM departure and was rarely on the track in the early afternoon as your lighting would indicate. 

Thanks a lot, BaltACD! haha, I knew people will mention about the "driving on the wrong side" thing, but no worries, I am gonna make another video for another Dreyfuss Hudson which using Boxpok drivers.

The time was set in the early morning in this video for better lighting so the next video will show the Century depart at 5 PM, but since the route I used run north to south in the UK so the shadow on the train probably won't be historically accurate. I am still searching for a proper route set in America for testing these high-speed engines. 

On the other hand, I am gonna add more cars to the 20th Century. IIRC the maximum length of the Century was 18 cars wasn't it? 

Flintlock76

Well you drove that Dreyfuss pretty well Mr. Jones!

A lot better than this kid drives his streamliner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ox3IAwYL2w  

By the way, how'd you get the locomotive to pass through the bridge without wrecking it?

Oh, I know, it's a "Ghost Train!"  BOOOOOOO!!!   A dream of things past!

Thank you for the kind words, Wayne. Those streamliners in that cartoon were actually quite beautiful! Note the beautiful streamliner only exist in the kid's dream while in "reality", we can see an unstreamlined engine before his dog saved him.

As you might have noticed that in the 3D world, not all object is solid but just a rendering. From my understanding, both train simulators available on the market don't want to encourage people to use them as a "trainwreck simulator" so if the user creates his own route and place a house in the middle of the track, the program won't simulate a train accident like Microsoft Train Simulator of 2001. 

But I know there are some games which can show you how a car or object will be damaged when hitting obsoletes, like this one:  

[Jones1945]

I want to share one more video before I start re-skin the PT tender for the Dreyfuss Hudson. This is a video I made earlier and never think I would share it on YouTube. In this video, you could see the Dreyfuss Hudson have better acceleration rate with much lighter load behind her while the PRR T1 could reach higher top speed.

Nothing unpredictable, just for fun! 

 

This post is dedicated to NYCentral's Dreyfuss Hudson and the 20th Century Limited, therefore I can promise you that the next video is all about NYC's renowned trains, including the Niagara and special guests.  

[Jones1945]

5 PM departure of the 20th Century Limited (Unstreamlined J3a + PT tender): 

PRR S1 #6100 chasing NYC Dreyfuss Hudson at 100mph:

Thank you for watching. 

 

[Flintlock76]

Well. That Pennsy engineer must have been asleep at the switch to have let the Century get that far ahead of him!

No matter, he more than made up for it!

Of course, we have to remember that both NYC and PRR officials always insisted there was never  any race between the Century and the Broadway!      

[Jones1945]

Flintlock76

Well. That Pennsy engineer must have been asleep at the switch to have let the Century get that far ahead of him!

No matter, he more than made up for it!

Of course, we have to remember that both NYC and PRR officials always insisted there was never  any race between the Century and the Broadway!       

Or maybe the S1 engineer was just messing around with the Century? I know it was not a fair "race" since S1 was too powerful, but it is all for fun. I think a NYCentral J3a vs PRR K4s would be a nicer match. 

[Jones1945]

Working on it:

I am not going to re-skin the 20th Century Limited train set to 1940s scheme. Thank you K&L TrainZ for letting user reskin their 3D model! 

In case you feel extremely bored:

[Jones1945]

Can I call this 3D Art and Animation of Classic trains?
NYCentral Dreyfuss Hudson and the PT tender is done: 

Thank you for watching. 

[BaltACD]

Jones1945

Can I call this 3D Art and Animation of Classic trains?

NYCentral Dreyfuss Hudson and the PT tender is done: 

Thank you for watching. 

Still find it amazing that the trains 'squeeze down' to fit through some of the overpasses.

Stories passed down from my Father and Grandfather about the B&O and PRR 'racing' from Washington Union Station for about 2 miles to a point just railroad East of the B&O's F Tower.  In the early 20's the PRR trains with K-4's would beat the B&O consistantly.  When the B&O obtained their P-7 President Class Pacifics in 1927 the tide went to the B&O trains with P-7 consistantly beating the K-4 led Pennsy train.  When the PRR electrified in the middle 30's with the GG-1's, the juice jacks were by far faster accelerating with the horsepower and low speed torque advantages of the electrics.

[Jones1945]

BaltACD

Still find it amazing that the trains 'squeeze down' to fit through some of the overpasses.

Stories passed down from my Father and Grandfather about the B&O and PRR 'racing' from Washington Union Station for about 2 miles to a point just railroad East of the B&O's F Tower.  In the early 20's the PRR trains with K-4's would beat the B&O consistantly.  When the B&O obtained their P-7 President Class Pacifics in 1927 the tide went to the B&O trains with P-7 consistantly beating the K-4 led Pennsy train.  When the PRR electrified in the middle 30's with the GG-1's, the juice jacks were by far faster accelerating with the horsepower and low speed torque advantages of the electrics.

Love your sharing, Balt! I will try to find a B&O 4-6-0 3D trains to render the race mentioned by your father and Grandfather! If there was a steam engine hauling considerable passenger load had an even better accelerating rate than the GG1, that would have been the real "Train of Tomorrow". :P 

Trainz - "Fight of the Century" 1939 (Part I)

[BaltACD]

Jones1945

 

BaltACD

Still find it amazing that the trains 'squeeze down' to fit through some of the overpasses.

Stories passed down from my Father and Grandfather about the B&O and PRR 'racing' from Washington Union Station for about 2 miles to a point just railroad East of the B&O's F Tower.  In the early 20's the PRR trains with K-4's would beat the B&O consistantly.  When the B&O obtained their P-7 President Class Pacifics in 1927 the tide went to the B&O trains with P-7 consistantly beating the K-4 led Pennsy train.  When the PRR electrified in the middle 30's with the GG-1's, the juice jacks were by far faster accelerating with the horsepower and low speed torque advantages of the electrics. 

 

Love your sharing, Balt! I will try to find a B&O 4-6-0 3D trains to render the race mentioned by your father and Grandfather! If there was a steam engine hauling considerable passenger load had an even better accelerating rate than the GG1, that would have been the real "Train of Tomorrow". :P 

Trainz - "Fight of the Century" 1939 (Part I)

 

President class engines were 4-6-2 Pacifics.  Engine 5304 was streamlined for a brief time in the 1938ish era for it's use on the Royal Blue between New York and Washington.  Then in 1947 engines 5301-5304 were streamlined for their use on The Cincinnatian, first between Mt. Royal Station in Baltimore and Cincinnati; then in 1950 account low patronage The Cincinnatian was changed to run between Detroit and Cincinnati.  The Cincinnatian engines retained their streamlining until they went to the scrappers in 1956 or 1957.  The B&O Museum the class original, Engine 5300, remains as a static display.

K&L Trainz has produced a video of the Cincinnatian's run between Mt. Royal and Cincinnati.  My only 'nit' to pick with it was they did not use B&O's legendary CPL signals in their rendering.  A second 'nit nit' was The Cincinnatian changed engines in Grafton and their rendering shows the original engine continuing through to Cincinnati

[Jones1945]

BaltACD

President class engines were 4-6-2 Pacifics.  Engine 5304 was streamlined for a brief time in the 1938ish era for it's use on the Royal Blue between New York and Washington.  Then in 1947 engines 5301-5304 were streamlined for their use on The Cincinnatian, first between Mt. Royal Station in Baltimore and Cincinnati; then in 1950 account low patronage The Cincinnatian was changed to run between Detroit and Cincinnati.  The Cincinnatian engines retained their streamlining until they went to the scrappers in 1956 or 1957.  The B&O Museum the class original, Engine 5300, remains as a static display.

K&L Trainz has produced a video of the Cincinnatian's run between Mt. Royal and Cincinnati.  My only 'nit' to pick with it was they did not use B&O's legendary CPL signals in their rendering.  A second 'nit nit' was The Cincinnatian changed engines in Grafton and their rendering shows the original engine continuing through to Cincinnati

B&O P7 #5304 was the only P7 to be streamlined twice in its life, I think the design of Otto Kuhler was nice, and he said that Raymond Loewy's office asked him and B&O for permission to use the bullet nose design. The second streamlined shrouding of 5304 was designed by miss Olive Dennis.

K&L Trainz is a 3-man team so they have their limitation, but of course, there is still rooms for improvement! I wish they can make a route of America set in the 1940s so that I can drive my trains without squeeze down under the UK's overpass. 

 

[Jones1945]

 2D, 3D Art and Animation for Classic Trains:

~ 18-car 20th Century Limited Speed Test ~ 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyEj4Imvm2A

 

[Jones1945]

New NYC Husdons for "Train Simulator 2019" work in progress.

Railworks "Train Simulator 2019" offers a much higher level of details, lighting, sound and texture rendering. At 18:10 in this video, the 3D artist demonstrates a feature that can't be found on "Trainz" (another train simulator) or even on my HO scale brass train collection in real life. Though Trainz offers a much higher degrees of freedom in the game and much easier content creation, sharing and editing. (If you want me to add your face on the front end of a train, just send me the pic)

The NYC Hudsons, a PRR T1 (Phototrype) and PRR Class G5 will be part of the content of a new route which simulates the NYCRR Water Level Route. I heard a PRR S1 6100 is also work in progress by another artist. 

It will be released as freeware and I don't know the 3D artist in person, but I think he or his team deserve some support and exposure!

[Jones1945]

The PRR Baldwin BP-20 "Passenger Shark" and the postwar Broadway Limited is available for train simulator now.

[Overmod]

Jones1945

The PRR Baldwin BP-20 "Passenger Shark" and the postwar Broadway Limited is available for train simulator now

Have they modeled the actual physics for these locomotives, particularly their rapid acceleration potential compared to contemporary competition (and even some modern designs?)

These things could accelerate radically better than, say, E units, both from a standing start and in the low-to-intermediate range above the low-speed motor limitations for hexapoles.  That is one substantial reason they found a home on the Long Branch commuter trains, and were happily kept running until PRR for "political" reasons decided to get rid of all the minority locomotives on a prioritized basis in 1963. 

The potentially sad part of this is that PRR famously rebuilt a set of Sharks with Alco running gear, but little of the Westinghouse electrical gear was compatible so what you wound up with was essentially an Alco locomotive 'above the deck'.  Meanwhile of course PRR had rather famously tested a six-motor 2400hp Alco as a commuter locomotive and found it really capable ... but had no money to spend on acquiring a fleet for what was by then a money-losing set of operations.  Might have been interesting to see what a government-sponsored rebuild after the mid-Sixties might have involved, with a 2400hp 251 powering hexapole motors (or, grudgingly, heavy-frame 752s or even 751s if you needed to keep it 'all in the family' with Alco motor-parts support).  Project might even have kept Alco in the locomotive market longer...

Ah, "the saddest words of tongue or pen ..."*

*(I could quote the original, but both the scansion and the meter suck... I use Euclid's famous phrase to fill it out in my version)

[Jones1945]

Overmod

Jones1945

The PRR Baldwin BP-20 "Passenger Shark" and the postwar Broadway Limited is available for train simulator now

 

Have they modeled the actual physics for these locomotives, particularly their rapid acceleration potential compared to contemporary competition (and even some modern designs?)

These things could accelerate radically better than, say, E units, both from a standing start and in the low-to-intermediate range above the low-speed motor limitations for hexapoles.  That is one substantial reason they found a home on the Long Branch commuter trains, and were happily kept running until PRR for "political" reasons decided to get rid of all the minority locomotives on a prioritized basis in 1963. 

Yes, Mr. Overmod. The physic engine in DTM's Train Simulator aka TS2019 is far better than Trainz in my opinion, the vehicle dynamic is calculated and rendered in a much more realistic way. *Base on my observation, the rail and the wheel are 3D solid objects so that friction between the rail and the driver of the locomotives was calculated and rendered. Unlike Trainz, where the rail and the driver are just a 3D mesh with surfaces. Therefore, if you create a driver with a shorter axle length than normal in DTM's 2019, the wheel will be swaying left and right on the track.

However, many users suspect that the script of the Broadway Limited is bugged, it seems that the train break is applied all the time and can't be released, causing brakes dragging on the whole train. We stated publicly on our YouTube channel that we inclined to not recommend this product until DTM fixed the problem, that's why I didn't provide the direct link of the DLC. I believe our forumer who interested in Train Simulation are smart enough to read the reviews before buying, although the DLC only worth about 15 USD and we still purchased it after reading the reviews. 

Regarding the realism of this DLC/Add-on, I would like to leave it to you to decide. I recorded a video which consists of 3 parts, part II starting from 10:00, the last one starting from 24:23, I will keep adding timestamp and description on the YouTube page and here as well. The Video is unlisted but it should be working for everyone who knows the link of it:

PRR BP-20 TESTING 

New Haven to New York Penn Station, 0-0.6% gradient, 545-1245 tons stock) 

Part I: BP-20 A unit + 545 tons passenger stock: 52mph reached (08:54), break Test (09:05) 

Part II ( 10:00 ) A-B-A unit + 545 tons passenger stock: 60mph reached (12:39), 65mph reached (13:50), hitting top speed 70mph (16:48), testing the speed of the A-B-A set (18:35), hitting 84.3mph (21:34), break Test (22:04) engine full stop (23:36)

Part III (24:23 ) A-B-A unit + 1245 tons passenger stock: 33.1mph reached (29:33), 39.7mph reached (32.40), waiting for Overmod in the observation car (35:56), passenger car truck close up and loco brake test (36:50), emergency brake testing (37:29),train full stop (37:51), testing the speed of the A-B-A set (38:54), 82.5mph reached (42:42), emergency brake testing (43:16), full stop (44:02)

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPf8b9IKVVY

Overmod

The potentially sad part of this is that PRR famously rebuilt a set of Sharks with Alco running gear, but little of the Westinghouse electrical gear was compatible so what you wound up with was essentially an Alco locomotive 'above the deck'.  Meanwhile of course PRR had rather famously tested a six-motor 2400hp Alco as a commuter locomotive and found it really capable ... but had no money to spend on acquiring a fleet for what was by then a money-losing set of operations.  Might have been interesting to see what a government-sponsored rebuild after the mid-Sixties might have involved, with a 2400hp 251 powering hexapole motors (or, grudgingly, heavy-frame 752s or even 751s if you needed to keep it 'all in the family' with Alco motor-parts support).  Project might even have kept Alco in the locomotive market longer...

Ah, "the saddest words of tongue or pen ..."*

*(I could quote the original, but both the scansion and the meter suck... I use Euclid's famous phrase to fill it out in my version) 

I am really not familiar with PRR's diesels, I assume that the Alco diesel you mentioned was RSD-12 isn't it? I think the front end design of the Alco RS11 was quite good looking, if the RSD-12 which had a similar front end design had a chance to became the prime power of PRR's commuter trains (or even became the prime power for crack trains), that would be very cool. (I don't like diesel for freight service or ATSF's EMD F7s just because they were using a 4-wheel truck and had a rather short body length)

The scenario of Maud Muller and the Judge could be applied to the train simulation world. It might have been the best educational software if Microsoft didn't cancel their "Train Simulator 2" in 2002 (?), it would have been a perfect combination of DTM's Train Simulator and Trainz offering up to date graphic, best physic engine and diverse (Free) content.

Now, folks who love America's classic locomotive have no choice but to use Trainz, which allow user to create their own content (but with less impressive graphic) while DTM's Train Simulator mainly focus on EU market and seldom creating any classic train content of North America.

But we probably will never understand the Eternal's will...... only God knows what would have happened if Maud Muller married the Judge! Though, in real life,  I am quite sure that Blanche Monnier's mother was as vicious as the devil!

What might have been if Monnier eloped with her boyfriend that night they hesitated? 

[Jones1945]

I am glad to see that many youngsters keep expressing their passion for the steam engine by creating the 3D train models for computer simulator and model railroading. This 3D artist is creating a new model of the PRR S1 6-4-4-6 for the "Train Simulator 2019". If you like his work, please don't hesitate to show him some love! 

http://railworksamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21210&p=243609&hilit=Pennsy#p243609

[Jones1945]

I found four sets of rendering of the UP "Big Boy" front and rear engine bed from the gallery of Autodesk's community, a 3D model created by a retired aerospace engineer Mr. William Jones (his profile and other works: https://gallery.autodesk.com/fusion360/users/JWJ6PVFH7GTY ) for his live steam engine project. He was looking for someone who could cast the beds for him 2 years ago.

https://gallery.autodesk.com/fusion360/projects/81222/locomotive-bed-front-engine-union-pacific-big-boy 

[Jones1945]

The NYC J-3a Hudson and Dreyfuss Hudson (Boxpok drivers) for TS2019 (Train Simulator 2019), created by DSGDDR (Darlan Gomes) and RailWanderer (John R. Williams), is already available at Digital Railroading for FREE :

 

| Part One: Dreyfuss Hudson hauling 800+ tons | | Part Two (15:49): Dreyfuss Hudson hauling 1400+ tons | Part Three (30:21): NYC J-3a Hudson hauling 800+ tons| ====(Click "Read More" for the download link if you are watching on PC or laptop)====

[Jones1945]

My friend James sent me some updates of the work in progress 3D model of PRR S1 for "Train Simulator 2019", another fascinating freeware by (Darlan Gomes) and RailWanderer (John R. Williams) for everyone to enjoy.

 

You could find more pics of this awesome project on DSGDDR's Flickr photo album. Thank you!

======================================

A 3D PRR T1 prototype, looks like a model ready to be printed out by a 3D printer.

 

https://freelancers3d.com/en/portfolio/2609/steam-locomotive-prr-s1

[Jones1945]

Southern Pacific, The Lark (proposed two-tone gray livery for GS2,3,4,5) in Trainz Simulator.

 16:11 - Arrive L.A Union Station, 25:45 - Southern Pacific "The Lark"

Thank You.

[BaltACD]

Jones1945

 16:11 - Arrive L.A Union Station, 25:45 - Southern Pacific "The Lark"

Thank You.

While the video is a CGI tour de'force - the actions of the humans and the things they do or operate is very 'notchy and robotic'.

[Jones1945]

BaltACD

 

 

Jones1945

 16:11 - Arrive L.A Union Station, 25:45 - Southern Pacific "The Lark"

Thank You.

 

 

While the video is a CGI tour de'force - the actions of the humans and the things they do or operate is very 'notchy and robotic'.

Thank you for watching it. It is actually an eight years old computer game "L.A. Noire" but not a computer-animated movies (CGI), that's why. Not only the movement of the characters, the graphic and level of detail in the game are quite dated. But there wasn't any open sandbox game set in the 1940s since then, and this is the only one game that rebuilt a 1:1 L.A Union Station and a significant proportion of the city, including many landmarks that were long gone. I do wish there was a company, game development company or education organization, could rebuild some major America cities (in the 1930s/40s) in a 1:1 scale with updated technology.  

To the man from the future who are reading this: could you please rebuild this planet earth in your "computer"?

[Flintlock76]

I suspected that was a computer game.  While the CGI was excellent the "camera work" left a lot to be desired, gave me eyestrain with all the jumping around.

Anyone who wants to do a "Film Noir" video game should try binge watching some classic Hollywood post-war movies for a tutorial. 

[Jones1945]

Flintlock76

I suspected that was a computer game.  While the CGI was excellent the "camera work" left a lot to be desired, gave me eyestrain with all the jumping around.

Anyone who wants to do a "Film Noir" video game should try binge watching some classic Hollywood post-war movies for a tutorial.  

 

Yeah, it is a "gameplay footage" so there is no way to set the camera angle, can't even zoom in or zoom out. I wasn't doing mission in the footage, just trying to use this game as a "classic car simulator" to create a video for my train simulator YouTube channel. The game itself is quite popular and well received which 5 million copies were sold by 2012.

[BaltACD]

Jones1945

 

BaltACD 

Jones1945

 16:11 - Arrive L.A Union Station, 25:45 - Southern Pacific "The Lark"

Thank You. 

While the video is a CGI tour de'force - the actions of the humans and the things they do or operate is very 'notchy and robotic'. 

Thank you for watching it. It is actually an eight years old computer game "L.A. Noire" but not a computer-animated movies (CGI), that's why. Not only the movement of the characters, the graphic and level of detail in the game are quite dated. But there wasn't any open sandbox game set in the 1940s since then, and this is the only one game that rebuilt a 1:1 L.A Union Station and a significant proportion of the city, including many landmarks that were long gone. I do wish there was a company, game development company or education organization, could rebuild some major America cities (in the 1930s/40s) in a 1:1 scale with updated technology.  

To the man from the future who are reading this: could you please rebuild this planet earth in your "computer"?

Not a Gamer and I would never have guessed it originated from a game scenario.