CNR Steamship Lines

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 2, 2018 12:33 PM

Associated with Canadian National Steamships were "Canadian National Electrics" (see about 6:30; and consider the related quiz question) and associated park, as here

https://gpsvideocanada.com/nst7-dvd-niagara-st-catharines-toronto-railway

Admittedly, the water might not have been as 'crystal-clear' as indicated, but don't you just want to jump into some of those scenes?  (Although there are a couple of very determined women chowing down that might frighten small children and household pets...)

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, November 2, 2018 2:12 PM

Miningman

Such a heroic and stirring deed! They were not designed for transatlantic crossings; compare to the size of early transatlantic ocean liners like RMS Etruria and Umbria, these beautiful cruises probably needed to convert extra space to store enough coal and food. But the world was at war, there was no room to be too picky.

North Atlantic storm is no jokes, these pics were taken from a much larger ship RMS Aquitania ( 901 ft long) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Aquitania 

By the way, my favorite Ocean Liner was the RMS Lusitania, a victim of WWI....

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, November 2, 2018 6:54 PM

Jones1945
By the way, my favorite Ocean Liner was the RMS Lusitania, a victim of WWI....

A Lusi fan!  Big SmileThumbs Up

Yes, CP's Empress class ships were better suited for transoceanic service:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 3, 2018 12:27 AM

Penny Trains
... CP's Empress class ships were better suited for transoceanic service ...

But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, November 3, 2018 5:20 AM

Penny Trains

A Lusi fan!  Big SmileThumbs Up

Yes Yes! I prefer the overall design of Lusitania to her sister ship Mauretania. CoffeeSmile, Wink & Grin If I was living in that era and rich enough to afford first class tickets for my whole family, I would travel on Lusi instead of much bigger but slower ship like RMS Olympic. Another ship I love was the SS Normandie; another war victim of yet another world war. The interior design was not for everyone but it was a Holy Temple of Art Deco on the sea for me. Drinks

My favorite battleship was the Nelson Class: 

 

 

Overmod

But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.

Yes, it took only 14 mins, not enough time for me to finish a box of chocolate; but it probably didn't beat the "speed record" of the demise of Pompeii.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 3, 2018 9:11 AM

Jones1945
Overmod

But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.

Yes, it took only 14 mins, not enough time for me to finish a box of chocolate; but it probably didn't beat the "speed record" of the demise of Pompeii

Interesting that only recently was the speed of death at Pompeii realized; 'common knowledge" when I read about this as a child was that it involved relatively slow gas and ash suffocation, and not prompt pyroclastic flow.

For 'contemporary' speed record, I suggest Saint-Pierre on Martinique, in 1902.  Would that Hamburg or Dresden have been as mercifully quick!

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 2:28 PM

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 2:32 PM

To Canadian National Steamships.

The illustrations below are from the five different "Lady" liners:
Lady Nelson, Lady Drake, Lady Hawkins, Lady Somers and Lady Rodney.
These ships were built in 1928-1929 and were all of around 8,000 grt and approx. 438 ft. long.
Three of them were sunk during WW2, but the Lady Nelson and Lady Rodney survived
to continue their Caribbean service after the war until sold in the early 1950s
to carry pilgrims and emigrants for the Khedivial Mail Line of Egypt.

 

From a 1932 Canadian National Steamships promotional brochure (see below).

There is a photo of the Lady Nelson as the Gumhuryat Misr during the 1950s on the P and O Line website of Michael Ian Byard

https://archive.org/details/thevarsity57/page/118  ad U of Toronto student paper

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, November 4, 2018 4:11 PM

A little more elegant the the accommodatios on the British Columbia ferries.

I did have a comfortable cabin when I spent the night from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert four years ago, though, and the dining room provided good meals in the morning and the evening. I was unable to get a cabin for the southbound trip, had to sit up.

Johnny

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 4:28 PM

Todays cruise ships have pretty sterile looking motel type rooms, nothing like these. But hey, they offer wifi, drunks, stoners and weirdos galore. They just take the 'forever party' onto the boat. Civilization is dead! ... and heaven forbid if you light up a cigarette!

Perhaps river cruises and ferries are a bit more civilized. 

I'll take the rattan and steamer trunks and no wifi any day. Heck I'll take a tramp steamer if there are any left. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, November 4, 2018 7:13 PM

Miningman
Todays cruise ships

Designed by a consortium comitee of Borg and Vogons.  Ick!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 4, 2018 7:14 PM

Miningman
Todays cruise ships have pretty sterile looking motel type rooms, nothing like these. But hey, they offer wifi, drunks, stoners and weirdos galore. They just take the 'forever party' onto the boat.

But the continuous party is the POINT of the cruise.  Why just ride around in a little room, going up and down, with little to look at outside, when you could be dancing, or swimming, or exercising, or eating, or eating, or eating.  Much of the cruise experience is directly derived from the Catskill experience (and, later, to my father's despair, the Poconos experience) where stuff is always going. And tips are always flowing.  It's a decidedly different set of definitions of 'civilized' than I think most of us have.  It would be interesting in the extreme to see what would happen if Carnival arranged for and then catered more train services....

No, I wouldn't ride them.  But that's not the point -- enough other people might ride them to justify operating a whole train, hoi-polloi coaches and all, for all the gray commodity destination pairs on the route.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 8:00 PM

Well Carnival already has the multimark logo so that's a start. 

I'm sure the old ships in the day had plenty of activities. Shuffleboard on deck, probably a pool, tennis, badminton, ballroom dancing. Gents hiding in leather chaired smokey rooms playing poker. I see a piano in the room full of rattan and wicker so entertainment as well. I'm sure the food was not so Las Vegas but more 20th Century. 

Besides wouldnt you rather see Penny strolling on the walkway with her parasol rather than a bunch of drunk 20 something's  oggling and harassing your girlfriend.

I think the real fun and games in the privacy of your own boudouir was more meaningful as well. Very romantic, I'd say. 

Late Edit:   That was not fair to Russians, changed it to 20 somethings but any group of well inebriated dudes. 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Sunday, November 4, 2018 8:23 PM

 

FYI.
 
' S S Noronic. '
 
This definitely did not help the Steamship business.
 
 
 
It later went to Hamilton, Ontario for Scrap In Company with a Canaller, and met w White-Lined Steam, also doomed.
 
Later Example.
 
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, November 4, 2018 11:33 PM

Miningman

I'm sure the food was not so Las Vegas but more 20th Century. 

Besides wouldn't you rather see Penny strolling on the walkway with her parasol rather than a bunch of drunk 20 something's oggling and harassing your girlfriend.

I think the real fun and games in the privacy of your own boudoir was more meaningful as well. Very romantic, I'd say. 

I love these similes, Vince. Travel experience had changed since the function of ocean liners switched from a luxury transportation vessel to merely a cheap club on the sea. From a pillow, a door handle to the interior design of the cabin and dining room, many cruises which people could easily afford a ticket nowadays were too "Las-Vegaslized"; bad taste eyesore all over the place, from inside to outside of the ship. I wonder what Norman Bel Geddes would have said if he could foresee the future from the 1950s. 

(Skip to 20m40s if you think the video is too long)

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 5, 2018 1:10 AM

Had no idea about the Noronic.  I have no real words to comment.  It is like the Charles Francis Adams report of the catastrophe at Abergele.

I do recall discussion of other catastrophic ship fires where lemon-oil polish of well-seasoned wood paneling was a major factor in rapid spread.  But not like this.

The picture of 5406 is interesting because it is an example of that somewhat regrettable railroad-photographer tendency to slant the board in the darkroom to make things look longer than they are.  That tender is artificially enhanced to the point it almost looks like the 64T unbuilt variant... especially notable in the spacing between pedestal journals and the rear overhang.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, November 5, 2018 8:36 AM

1953 Ad.  Got to like the addition of the streamlined Northern and the F units depiction. 

The Noronic fire remains quite famous in Toronto. A simple linen closet and fire hoses that don't work brought down a whole industry. 

Of course the rest of the ship was a tinderbox, eventually this would have happened.

I recall when they towed the hulk through the Burlington canal, a railroad/roadway lift bridge crossing over along the beach strip, for the short jaunt to the awaiting Waxman scrapyard and the blast furnaces of Stelco.  

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, November 5, 2018 10:02 AM

NDG

The fire on SS Noronic was horrific! But compared to what happened to SS Mont-Blanc in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on December 6, 1917 aka Halifax Explosion, it wasn't the worst case. 

https://jgburdette.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/collision-in-the-narrows-halifax-explosion/comment-page-2/ 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Monday, November 5, 2018 1:13 PM

 Quote.

The fire on SS Noronic was horrific! But compared to what happened to SS Mont-Blanc in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on December 6, 1917 aka Halifax Explosion, it wasn't the worst case. 

Quote.

 

I agree Halifax was much worse than the SS Noronic fire.
 
BUT. Most deaths at Halifax were On LAND account the explosion, NOT on-board passengers.
 
Both ships were Freighters, not Passenger Steamships.
 
The item was posted in context with the thread, which is fresh-water Passenger Steamships, and, their eventual demise.
 
Halifax was terrible, no matter the circumstances as was the SS Noronic.
 
OT.
 
Marine Peril, from above.
 
 
 

Thank You.

 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, November 5, 2018 7:20 PM

Some good stuff here too: https://www.cruiselinehistory.com/ss-city-of-cleveland-on-a-labor-day-cruise-in-1947/   Search "great lakes" on the main page for more articles.  Site is by one of the writers from "The Love Boat".

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, November 5, 2018 8:55 PM

Jones1945
 
NDG

 

The fire on SS Noronic was horrific! But compared to what happened to SS Mont-Blanc in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on December 6, 1917 aka Halifax Explosion, it wasn't the worst case. 

https://jgburdette.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/collision-in-the-narrows-halifax-explosion/comment-page-2/ 

 

From what I've read there's no buildings on the Halifax waterfront that date from before December 6th 1917.  Absolutely none.

The Mont Blanc explosion's been compared to what we'd call today a "tactical nuke."

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, November 5, 2018 10:08 PM

Wow. Never heard that "tactical nuke" reference before. They discovered the hard way what ammonium nitrate and fuel oil brought together is all about. That is still what we use underground for blasting, nicknamed 'Anfo' by everyone. Colour coded by country too... USA uses green beads, we use pink. 

Nice boat Penny. What a beauty. 

From the Noronic article " at one time there were more people asleep on boats on the Great Lakes than on any ocean in the world". 

I'm sure I have seen the SS City of Cleveland at some point in Port Dover as a kid. Distinctly remember it was a big deal when the "big boat from Cleveland" visited on special occasions. 

Also .. Jones 1945- Thanks for the SS Normandie clip. That is just stupendous. It reflects a whole culture and a nation. What I would give to spend 24 hours in the day. Think I would have trouble just breathing!

So we lost our magnificient ships, our Steamship lines, the look to the future of steam with all what we have been discussing, many of our stations, sleeping and dining car services to everywhere, fully functional extensive Interurban and streetcar services everywhere, the great names of our railroads and our trains, and so on, all under the banner of progress and expediency. What a load of crap!  

I suppose next someone is going to tell me that Gov't mandated food guidelines have in no way contributed to obesity and diabetes epidemics and that we are all so much healthier now. People aren't dropping dead of heart attacks at 58 or 63 anymore because someone figured out that childrens aspirin will save your sorry butt. 

Pennsylvania Station is gone, the indestructible Pennsylvania RailRoad is gone, the mighty New York Central is gone, ...  where is the Lackawanna and the Lehigh Valley? The Minneapolis and St Louis? The Monon? The Pacific Electric? Did we suffer a North America wide nuclear attack? What hath God wrought!!!

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, November 5, 2018 11:00 PM

Firelock76
From what I've read there's no buildings on the Halifax waterfront that date from before December 6th 1917.  Absolutely none.

The explosion happened off the north part of Halifax.  Closer to downtown there are a number of older buildings along the waterfront in an area called the Historic Properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_Properties_(Halifax)

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 8:16 AM

Miningman

Nice boat Penny. What a beauty. 

I'm sure I have seen the SS City of Cleveland at some point in Port Dover as a kid. Distinctly remember it was a big deal when the "big boat from Cleveland" visited on special occasions. 

I like the length of the grand stair and the atrium of SS City of Cleveland which brought natural light deep inside the ship. Bright sunlight always makes objects look fresh and lively. If only I could still have the chance to traveling by big steamboat and steam train on the same trip..... 

 

Miningman

Also .. Jones 1945- Thanks for the SS Normandie clip. That is just stupendous. It reflects a whole culture and a nation. What I would give to spend 24 hours in the day. Think I would have trouble just breathing!

So we lost our magnificent ships, our Steamship lines, the look to the future of steam with all what we have been discussing, many of our stations, sleeping and dining car services to everywhere, fully functional extensive Interurban and streetcar services everywhere, the great names of our railroads and our trains, and so on, all under the banner of progress and expediency. What a load of crap!

You are very welcome, Vince. I am glad to see that more and more videos from the past being uploaded on different platforms including YouTube.

I totally agree with you that the human race missed a lot of great things in the past 100 years. If the concept of planned obsolescence is part of this so-called progress, I would rather be stuck in the 1930s forever! I love innovative ideas and everything that I think it is beautiful. But, unfortunately, for me, I am never a big friend of contemporary design and style. I am glad to see human rights were improved in some countries (Yes, only a handful of them); I can see some very amazing contemporary designs being created. But usually, only 10% (or less) of them could be my cup of tea. Coffee

 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, November 6, 2018 6:59 PM

Yes it's a complicated thing. People use the word cheaper everyday as in "it's cheaper this way" or "it's cheaper to produce" , "cheaper to buy" so much so it has become a normal part of everyday conversation. 

Cheaper means poorly made, poorly constructed, inferior quality, not meant to last. I use the word 'less expensive' if it applies as it gives a comparison. It denotes efficiency and smart application to offer a service or product with less expense. Not cheapness. 

Life had a nice pace to it. The rat race and cheapness became the order of the day. Things went too fast. We lost too much and we disposed  of much what was solid, so much of the fabric of society, so much what was built and was normal and necessary. Now we have the .1%, a far smaller and shrinking middle class, whom exist to serve only the .1% at their whim. This was planned, this was marketed, this was sold to all. 

The Pennsy is gone, S1 is scrapped along with 100,000 rebuilt perfectly fine, many new, steam locomotives so we were told they were "war weary", streetcar lines were tore up, Packers are no more as are so many diverse car companies, the CMSt.P&P is obliterated off the planet, competition was eliminated and we squeeze into sardine cans with people wearing their pyjamas, delays the norm, and mayhem at the terminals along with extra everything costs that are usary yet most folks defend that!, a generation has turned their back on Capitalism because it did/does nothing for them. 

It's cheaper all right. Big time. 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 7, 2018 10:30 AM

Miningman
Sept 9 menu lists 'grapenuts ice cream'....not sure what that is but it sounds crunchy.

GrapeNuts was, and I think still may be, a Post breakfast cereal.  "Crunch" is kind of an understatement for its mouth feel; I'm tempted to quote the old Playboy review of Laphroaig single-malt: "it takes a verra determined laddie to get that stoof doon"...

I'd suspect 'GrapeNuts ice cream' would be like a tortoni on steroids.  You'd certainly have your fiber, though.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 7, 2018 11:10 AM

It has been more than a few years since I ate any GrapeNuts--the cereal was, indeed, quite crunchy. There was, also, GrapeNuts Flakes--perhaps more enjoyable if your teeth were not up to crunching GrapeNuts. However, as I remember, the Flakes did not have the same ingredients as the Nuts had.

Johnny

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