CNR Steamship Lines

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, October 29, 2018 6:57 PM

Miningman

Now they are going to get you a shrink.

 

Maybe they better, if I'm going to start having flashbacks to wars I was never in!

Hey Becky, I can imagine how even a small charge of black powder can scare you, especially if you don't know it's coming.  Sometimes even if you DO know it's coming.

Here's a video of Lord Nelson's old flagship HMS Victory "firing a broadside."  They're not actually shooting the great guns, what you see are pyrotechnic charges with about three ounces of black powder, and look at the bang they make!

Now, imagine what Victory's 24 pounders with their usual charge of eight pounds of powder must have been like!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnomDilySlA

"Come cheer up m'lads, 'tis to glory we steer,

And add something more to this wonderful year..."

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, October 29, 2018 7:31 PM

Well ok... on the USS Niagara video they held a reenactment of the Battle of Lake Erie with 9 American and 6 British tall ships. So I suppose you are quite sane. 

Man your cannon Firelock, think I have little choice but to be on the Canadian, err, British side. What a hoot that would be. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, October 29, 2018 8:30 PM

Sounds like fun, but a re-enactment only, mind you.

No more "Cousins Wars," not in this dangerous age we live in.

See, I can be serious!

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 29, 2018 9:46 PM

Firelock76
Give 'er the mainsail, topsails and t'gallants! Stun'sls too! Every rag she'll carry!"

You're from New Jersey, aren't you?

If you're going to say 't'gallants' then it would be t's'ls, NOT pronounced "top-sayles", and it's 'stuns'ls' (an abbreviation of 'studding sails' that needs no contraction in the first word, note where the apostrophe goes, just as 'rarin' to go' is NOT an abbreviation of 'raring to go).  And you do not 'give her' the mains'l the way the Army Air Corps gives her the gun.

And 'let fly' applied to sails means to LOOSEN so they stop driving... dogs will go faster if you let them slip, and cannonballs if you let them fly, but there's a difference with tall ships.

It's all right, though.  Just don't think you can move to Somalia just yet...

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 29, 2018 9:51 PM

Miningman
I'm reminded of the scene in the latest Churchill movie where Sir Winston has to kiss the Kings hand and walk backwards, not turning his back on the Monarch as he exits the room.

This is VERY strange, considering the relationship between Churchill and the Rex Imp. as described in a number of places in the former's history of the Second World War.  Is that scene in "Churchill" or is it in "Darkest Hour"?

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, October 29, 2018 10:22 PM

Definitely in Darkest Hour.  There are several scenes with the two of them in private and they did seem friendly and showed concern for each other and the country, but this one scene was quite formal. Churchill had just been elected and the King was required to summon him and ask Churchill to form the new government. It was all very proper and stuffy.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 29, 2018 10:53 PM

Miningman
It was all very proper and stuffy.

Musta been too many of the wrong kinds of Poms watching.  British pomp and circumstance can be almost unmatched at times.  Fortunately* when the actual time comes to do the do, they get things done most of the time.

*This is a loaded word for some, the al-Fayeds and divers Argentines among them...

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, October 29, 2018 10:56 PM

CNR had another steamship line, if you consider the GTW carferry across Lake Michigan, between Muskegon, MI and Milwaukee, WI.  It ran until 1978.  Its last ferry, the City of Milwaukee, is preserved in Manistee, MI.  I toured it a few years ago.  I might also have ridden it when it operated for the Ann Arbor, but I did not keep track of ships names.

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Posted by M636C on Monday, October 29, 2018 10:58 PM

Miningman

Definitely in Darkest Hour.  There are several scenes with the two of them in private and they did seem friendly and showed concern for each other and the country, but this one scene was quite formal. Churchill had just been elected and the King was required to summon him and ask Churchill to form the new government. It was all very proper and stuffy.

 
Here in Australia we just had a Royal Visit from the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. I'm not really happy with the Duke appearing in a British army uniform with an untrimmed beard, which isn't in accord with tradition. He has seen some war service, which they weren't willing to risk with the actual heir, so I give him more credit than William.
 
One of my favourite movies is "The King's Speech" dealing with Albert's stammer.
 
In the movie, just after George V died, it was said that his last words were "Bertie's got more guts than the rest of them put together". Also in the movie, Churchill is seen suggesting to Albert that the name George would be more acceptable than Albert which was seen as too German. (strange given the number of Kings named George that never learnt English).
 
Peter
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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 29, 2018 11:31 PM

M636C
Also in the movie, Churchill is seen suggesting to Albert that the name George would be more acceptable than Albert which was seen as too German. (strange given the number of Kings named George that never learnt English).

More than usually sucky, as Victoria's Albert was one of the best of the lot ... I have often thought (as have other alternative-historian SF aficionados) that the world would have been much better had he lived longer.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 12:02 AM

Good thread.

Midland Mike-- Thanks for that reminder. How on earth did we lose these things. Well thankfully at least we still have the Great Lakes  ferries Badger in the US and the Chi-Cheemaun in Ontario, both of whom have a fine railroad heritage. 

Firelock-- Wow to the broadsides from the HMS Victory. I understand the real thing pushed and lifted the ship back. How the heck does anyone survive that onslaught. By the way my high school was Admiral Lord Nelson and our yearbook is The Victory. A big school, very middle and upper middle class. Which leads me to....

Penny--- We shot off a cannon as well during football games but no Minute Men, we had Redcoats and striped sailors and Admiral Lord Nelson himself with a sword and his Admiralty feathered hat.  Now how about getting those two football teams together!!!! Wholly Cow! ... which brings me to Firelock again...

Firelock-- staged re-enactment with 15 tall ships out on Lake Erie, now I know anything is possible, because they did it,  but I think it best we do this BEFORE Penny's High School vs. my High School football game or maybe someone will get too serious. 

Overmod-- Ok I'm lost.. can you expand a bit on the Fortunately comment? I think I get the gist but only peripherally. Also what about Victoria's eldest grandson, the somewhat lunatic Kaiser Wilhelm II, without him it's quite possible there is no WWI and II. Just gotta have a bigger Navy than the Brits didn't you? 

M636C-- Both you and I have to stare at Monarchy on the reverse side of our coinage every day. Maybe an unkept beard on the Duke of Sussex ( ahem, not Windsor) might pop up someday on the dime, who knows! 

...and to our American cousins and dear friends don't feel left out because the O'Bushtons came close to perpetual family rule and may still yet, but the Sex Pistols came along and shook it up. So much fun.

 

Ok late edit--- Overmod.. it all came together, I get it. 

 

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 5:56 AM

M636C-- Both you and I have to stare at Monarchy on the reverse side of our coinage every day. Maybe an unkept beard on the Duke of Sussex ( ahem, not Windsor) might pop up someday on the dime, who knows! 

Unless the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge take their whole families on the same Lionair flight, it isn't likely. Harry is now sixth in line...

Given the role that Harry has been given, I think the intention was to give him the title Duke of Edinburgh but nobody expected Philip to last that long. With all the awards and similar carrying the title of "Edinburgh", someone like Harry who could keep the title going (and not become King) is needed.

The names "nickel" and "dime" are not used in Australia, just "five cent" and "ten cent". The decimal currency was only introduced on 14 February 1966 and I guess it hasn't been long enough for nicknames. The shilling that preceded the ten cent was abbreviated to "bob" the two shilling coin being "two bob" but only for round numbers, two shillings and sixpence being "two and six".

The Queen's image only appears on the smallest banknote, but on all coins.

Peter

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 6:20 AM

Overmod
 
M636C
Also in the movie, Churchill is seen suggesting to Albert that the name George would be more acceptable than Albert which was seen as too German. (strange given the number of Kings named George that never learnt English).

 

More than usually sucky, as Victoria's Albert was one of the best of the lot ... I have often thought (as have other alternative-historian SF aficionados) that the world would have been much better had he lived longer.

 
No argument there...
But I'm pretty sure the name "George" was used since George V had been King for more than 25 years and anything that suggested continuity was good. And there had never been a British King Albert before...
 
I visited Argentina in 2003 and some people were still angry that during the Prince of Wales' visit in 1920 (or so) that he had been too drunk to appear to the crowds that gathered to see him and his royal train. They weren't pleased with Margaret Thatcher either...
 
Which reminds me of a Falklands War joke...
 
"What can you expect from a tinpot dictator half of whose population is sleeping under newspapers on park benches - but the Argentines have a lot to answer for as well..."
 
Peter
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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:08 AM

Peter, did you also have a five shilling coin, called a "crown" and was the 2 & 6 coin called a "half crown?" And, did you also use guineas or just pounds?

Johnny

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 4:43 PM

Now Overmod me old son, in that fine film "Damn The Defiant" Sir Alec Guinness (as Captain Crawford) gives a command "Give her the mainsail!" so I have it on Sir Alec's authority it's a proper command.

AND Sir Alec was a Royal Navy veteran to boot!

I'm from New Jersey all right, that means I can drive anything!  Whistling

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 5:02 PM

Now Wayne, me lad, that fine film "Damn the Defiant" was written jointly by the guy who wrote the Quatermass Experiment and the guy who invented Klaatu barada nikto'.  Neither of them having any Navy experience whatsoever (the one being the British equivalent of 4F for photophobia, and the other spending WWII in the Signal Corps making training films).

The screenplay was an adaptation of a bestselling novel from 1958, Frank Tilsley's "Mutiny".  Tilsley, alas! was not a Navy man either; he was a war reporter for the RAF and wound up with what may be a suspicious rank of 'Squadron Commander' -- well, it's reminiscent of a sort of naval role, the Gilbert & Sullivan ruler of the Queen's nay-vee, but not a terribly compelling indication of intimate familiarity with the semantic nomenclature of tall ships... a survey of his works includes titles like "I'd Hate to be Dead", "The Jungle of Your Heart","The Boys of Coastal", "Pleasure Beach", and "The Lady in the Fur Coat" which would indicate to me that his research for the one novel might well be tainted by, er, Air Force terminology...

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 5:46 PM

Deggesty

Peter, did you also have a five shilling coin, called a "crown" and was the 2 & 6 coin called a "half crown?" And, did you also use guineas or just pounds?

I have never seen a five shilling coin. However a "50 cent" coin was introduced in 1966, made of silver and it was withdrawn and replaced by a cupro-nickel version with twelve sides in 1970, the silver version being circular with milled edges.

2/6 was always called "half a crown" but had to be made up from a Florin (2/-) and a sixpence. As a result we now have 20c coins but no quarters.

Yes, guineas were used. Tradtionally racehorses were sold with prices in guineas because prices in Guineas had some sort of 'upper class" appeal. So were expensive automobiles. For those who really don't know what Johnny and I are talking about, it was a tradition in England to quote prices of costly items in guineas where One Guinea = One Pound One Shilling = 1 and 1/20 Pounds, so 5% more than the same number in pounds.

This was extensively used in advertising of home electronics (mainly television sets) where 50 pounds was a sort of break point between cheap and expensive sets. So a TV set was advertised as 49 guineas = 51 pounds 9 shillings.

One of my happy memories is of a TV quiz show, about the time the change in the 50 cent coin was announced. This was the first night of a TV show hosted by a man with a long running and successful radio show. It had an unnecessarily complex procedure where a question was answered, then if correct, a key was drawn from a barrel which unlocked (or not) a padlock on a new Ford sedan.

Anyway, the first contestant was asked "how many sides has the new...." at which she interrupted with "twelve". Prior to this, they had opened the padlock to show that one key worked, and dropped it in the barrel. The woman reached into the barrel, pulled out a key and opened the padlock.

At this, the host stormed off throwing his program notes away. They went to an advertising break, after which he returned, saying "Ford have said they will give us a new car for tomorrow night...."

The program didn't last the season.....

When Australia converted to decimal currency they used one dollar = ten shillings = 1/2 pound. Only the copper coins were replaced since one cent =1+1/5 pennies but sixpence became 5 cents, one shilling became ten cents.

When the UK changed some years later, they kept the pound, so one new penny = 2.4 old pennies, so a shilling became five new pence and so on.

So an Australian visiting the UK had to get used to familiar coins which had half the numerical value they had at home. This was even harder shortly after the change when they still said "shilling" or "florin" rather than 5p or 10p....

Peter

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:32 PM

Overmod
Klaatu barada nikto

Good Halloween reference!  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 8:12 PM

Thanks, Peter. Did high-price doctors also express their fees in guineas?

Johnny

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 9:56 PM

Miningman
Midland Mike-- Thanks for that reminder. How on earth did we lose these things. Well thankfully at least we still have the Great Lakes  ferries Badger in the US and the Chi-Cheemaun in Ontario, both of whom have a fine railroad heritage. 

I did not realize the Chi-Cheemaun had a railroad heritage.  I see it belonged to Ontario Northland Marine.  It seems far away from the ONR.

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:52 PM

Deggesty

Thanks, Peter. Did high-price doctors also express their fees in guineas?

 

 

Not that I have any personal experience, but almost certainly....

I had two cousins who were high priced surgeons, but fortunately never needed to use them. One was Professor of Surgery at Oxford University (in the mid 1970s).

Peter

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:59 PM

You know, I knew there was a film out there the showed just how smoky a sea battle was in the age of sail, and here it is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik  

Give it a few seconds to load.  Or maybe "lock and load."

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 7:57 PM

Firelock76

You know, I knew there was a film out there the showed just how smoky a sea battle was in the age of sail, and here it is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik  

Give it a few seconds to load.  Or maybe "lock and load."

 

Ah, yes--Jack Aubrey; I think I read all 20 books about him and his doctor friend who led an interesting life as he rose from lieutenant to admiral. It has been quite some time since I read them.

Johnny

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 8:47 PM

Firelock-- What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing? The level of comraderie, adrenalin, fear, heroics all out in the middle of an unforgiving ocean combined with such lethal and devastating force and consequences with every action and decision is unmatched. Likely because things were so visibly unfolding at close quarters and so vulnerable. 

Thinking you better have one helluva Captain.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:12 PM

Miningman
What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing?

As with pirates ... it's because you weren't there.  Likely the effect of one good broadside, with the splinters flying, would cure you of any romantic attraction to the subject whatsoever.  The sort of innovation Southey (I think it was) attributed to Napoleon, putting all sorts of trained ground troops up in the rigging to sharpshoot the sailors on deck wholesale as ships closed, is another grand wholesale murder. 

Modern gunnery and aircraft attack (including various 'kamikaze' tactics) is more effective at destruction, but often less horrifically maiming than the effect of grape or canister or the wooden 'shrapnel' of sea-seasoned wooden structure, repeated again and again and again until enough of the crews on one ship were out of commission to work enough guns.  And the paintwork all was spatter-dashed with ... something appropriate to this season, I think.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:49 PM

Well I'm really not fond of deep deep water, the kind where the Kraken and Moby Dick call home.  I do have a boat in the Marina at Port Dover and for some time now, but my 3 now grown up daughters look after it and use it now. ( I pay the annual Marina fees, insurance and major maintenance from far away landlocked Saskatchewan, which proves one is never as smart as they think they are). It's not a sailboat.

No way I would have made any kind of a naval military sailor in any era. Maybe Merchant Marine on the Great Lakes with hopefully a gal in every port. ...and never on Lake Superior in November. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:52 PM

Overmod
Miningman
What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing?

As with pirates ... it's because you weren't there.  Likely the effect of one good broadside, with the splinters flying, would cure you of any romantic attraction to the subject whatsoever.  The sort of innovation Southey (I think it was) attributed to Napoleon, putting all sorts of trained ground troops up in the rigging to sharpshoot the sailors on deck wholesale as ships closed, is another grand wholesale murder. 

Modern gunnery and aircraft attack (including various 'kamikaze' tactics) is more effective at destruction, but often less horrifically maiming than the effect of grape or canister or the wooden 'shrapnel' of sea-seasoned wooden structure, repeated again and again and again until enough of the crews on one ship were out of commission to work enough guns.  And the paintwork all was spatter-dashed with ... something appropriate to this season, I think.

Don't forget the (lack of) personal hygiene on cramped wooden ships at sea for months at a time.

The smell below deck must have been 'powerful'.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 1, 2018 7:52 AM

Ah, yes; the aromas from the areas where captured enemies were kept are described in Kenneth Roberts' two novels set in the War of 1812--Captain Caution and The Lively Lady. It could also be muddy down there.

Johnny

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:21 PM

Deggesty
Ah, yes; the aromas from the areas where captured enemies were kept are described in Kenneth Roberts' two novels set in the War of 1812--Captain Caution and The Lively Lady.

To say nothing of the conditions to which the British subjected detainees during the early part of the American Revolutionary War, where poor olfactory sensation was far from the worst.

The difference is that dude was discussing people who by necessity were supposed to be kept both enthusiastic and healthy during their presumably stinky sojourn.

As an interesting, if somewhat disgusting aside: people who don't bathe for an extended period of time stop having really objectional personal odor after a while.  We observed this firsthand at the Springhill hardware store, where once a year a tribe of 'mountain people' who made twig furniture as a family business would come in to get their nails, twine, tools, etc.  They did not engage in any kind of regular active 'hygiene' but the only smell was a kind of mustiness.  Were they to exercise to a sweat, or get actively drenched, I suspect this happy observation would rapidly become far less happy.

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