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Peter Witt streetcars that are not PCCs

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 4, 2021 2:23 PM

The DaKalb Av. Line had two northern terminals, two branches, and we will look at another view of the termional shown above, then briefly at the other terminal, then some views on a trip downtown, inbcluding passing under the DeKalb Avenue Station of the Lexington Avenue Elevated ib its short connection from Myrtle Av. to Lexington Av.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 4, 2021 2:45 PM

daveklepper
Side-view of field-shunt-equipped 8188

Where on the line, and how fast, were the field-shunted cars allowed to go?

My introduction to the joys of field shunting involved the account of the Electroliner testing.  In the version I heard, the train handily ran 108mph (on 28" wheels!) and at the end of that run a torch was called for and the coils summarily cut off...

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 4, 2021 10:44 PM

First,  the posting was in error and has been corrected.  The car was 8468 and not 8188.  Field-shunt cars, the 8100-series, were not generally used on DeKalb Avenue.  They were used mainly on Ocean Avenue, and shown on earlier postings on this thread, and on Utica Avenue, where use of additional top speed, I'd estimate about 42 mph, was possdible.  I'd estimate the top speed, level track, of a regular 8000 to  be about 35 mph.

The previous photo was the downtown loop, but here is the main boarding location:

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 5, 2021 6:27 AM

Grand Avenue was the street the Lexington Avenue Elevated used between Myrtle and Lexington Avenues.  It also, like Myrtle and DeKalb Avenues, had a streetcar line.  Brooklyn's Lexington Avenue did not.

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Posted by WILLIAM O CRAIG on Monday, April 5, 2021 3:11 PM

What was "field-shunting" that was mentioned above? I thought I was a streetcar fan, but I have never heard of that term.

 

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, April 5, 2021 6:36 PM

In field shunting, a section of the motor's field is shorted out, reducing the strength of the field.  By weakening the field, the BEMF (Back Electro Motive Force) is reduced, allowing the motor to run faster than with a full field.  Most if not all of the cars with field control/field shunting have some kind of MU control, even if they never operated as multiple units.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, April 5, 2021 8:32 PM

The perhaps more familiar term in American practice was 'field weakening'  

It may seem paradoxical that reducing the magnetic field in the stator would let the motors 'propel the car faster'.  In fact more "electricity" is being used in the motor, but it takes the form of more current going through the 'other half' of the magnetic interaction, the electromagnetic coil windings on the motor armature.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:30 AM

First, field shunting is only applicable to commutator motors, AC as well as DC, but not applicable to either AC synchrnous induction motors or AC non-synchronoys hysterises induction motors.  All field current in these motors is under computer control.  (Except many cases of synchronous motors with fixed speed and load for which such control is not necessary.)

As you already know, a DC generator is a motor in reverse, with the same basic parts.  With a field current applied, the rotating armature, with its own coils. provides useful power (current in amps and volts) at the brush terminals.

When a comutator motor is at rest, and current is applied, the current in amps is determined by the volts applied divided by the total resistance of the motor (Ohms Law), usually the armature windings in series with the field windings.  But as the motor begins to revolve, it generates its own voltage, called back-electro-motive force,  back EMF, and this reduces the amount of current in amps that the motor receives.

Transition takes motors or groups of motors that were connected in series and connects them in parallel, thus doubling the applied voltage.  Field shunting, field-weakening, reduces the back-EMF.   Most DC-motored rail equipment use both, and nearly all use transition.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 6:23 AM

Westinghouse control designators have an F in them if field control equipped.  Common types used in interurban and rapid transit equipment include

HLF - Hand acceleration, Line power, Field Control

ABF - Automatic acceleration, Battery power, Field control

All steel North Shore Line equipment had HLF.  Chicago's L had lots of variations, including one type (ABLFM) specifically designed to work with GE M- or PC- type control.  Operation depended on MU controller.

GE PC-5 (Pneumatic Cam) controls used in quite a few streetcars have field control built in but not always connected, either actuated by a separate lever on the operator's controller, or by a release lever permitting the controller to go to the field control notch.  PC-10 types used in heavier equipment get extra notches instead.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 12, 2021 3:20 AM

The Holy Cross Cemetary Line was a half-mile, single-track, single-car operation, connected by one switch to the northbound track of he busy Nostrand Avenue Line.

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 30, 2021 7:32 AM

A fan trip of this type of car and at this location of Metropolitan and Jamaica Avenues in Queens had photos posted earlier, but here is a regular car.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, May 31, 2021 5:38 AM
 

david klepper <ddaveklepper1@gmail.com>

Attachments1:45 PM (4 minutes ago)
 
 
to randy.glucksmanjackmay135RichardStevemike11735rjacksonbulletinlesjefferlitzHenry
 
 
 
Nearly all old negatives that I have scanned evoke the memories of the o  ccasions for the photographs.
 
This is true of the other images on the fim roll, but not for this picture.
 
 I may have have been riding the Metropolitan Avenue line, and near the Brooklyn-Queens border.
spied a photo opportunity and decided to spend  the extra dime or nickle and climb the hill.
From the other photos, this seoul be early Spring, 1948, age 16.
 
Or, same year, perhaps i went with parents to visit a family friend (not a close relative)
and took the photo from a window at the rear of the house or apartment.
 
Pretty sure the vacant land has housing today. 
Some ors all of the semi-detached houses may have been replaced by apartment buildings.
 

 
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 13, 2021 5:54 AM

Brooklyn's streetcar riders seemed divided into those who waited on the curb and those who came close to the tracks.  Grand Avenue line(?), car 8217, 1947:

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:58 AM

The Jan. 31 and Feb. 2 postings concerned the all PRW Nortons-Point Line, and here is the elevated terminal, now missimg, but prior to 1950 attached to the south end of the existing elevated 8-track terminal for the D, F, N, and Q lines, with occasional visits by the B.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 28, 2021 10:04 AM

The Long Island City Loop with Graham Avenue 8372 double-ender followed by a 6000 or 6200 single-ender on the Crosstown Line, 1947.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, July 2, 2021 10:00 AM

Fan-trip photo-stop in Brooklyn's Williamsburg area (bridge tower in backround) with 8532 in the post-WWII scheme of green-and-silver, and 8525, behind, in traditional Burundy-and-cream.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, July 3, 2021 2:31 PM

From Henry Raudenbush:

Yes, it’s near the Williamsburg Bridge – the bridge is visible in the distance.
 
The cars are on Broadway opposite the southwest corner of the bridge plaza. 
Here is a picture of the plaza to tie down the location.  The tall dome of the Williamsburg Savings Bank building is visible..   The picture is from 1906, with conduit cars on one side of the plaza, and Brooklyn cars n the south side.  In that picture, the Broadway el line ran down to the Broadway Ferry, and the provision for el trains on  the bridge had not yet been connected.  In the fan-trip picture, the el has been connected to the bridge; the structure on Broadway had been torn down, so it does not appear in the fantrip picture.  The elevated's connection tp the Bridge is just visible at the right of that one. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, July 3, 2021 10:47 PM

Further from Henry:

The history of the bridge and the ferry is detailed in B.J. Cudahy’s book “Over & Back”.
Detailed dates for streetcar and rapid transit service are not provided there. 
 
There were as many as four different ferry lines from Broadway Ferry to various point in Manhattan, some going back to the early 19 century.
 
The Broadway elevated line reached the ferry in 1889. 
Streetcars and the South Side RR also ran to the ferry, dates not listed.
 
The bridge opened pn Dec 19, 1903.   Trolleys began to operate over the bridge in 1904.
 
On September 16, 1908, El trains began to operate over the bridge to Essex St.
On December 14, 1908, operator of the ferries abandoned service.
 
On Decmeber 16, 1911, ferry service was restored by a new company, with a municipal subsidiary. 
 
In 1913, rapid transit service was extended from Essex St to Chambers St..
 
In 1918, the new ferry operator quit.
In 1921, municipal operation of a ferry from Broadway Brooklyn started,
In 1931, ferry service ws finally abandoned. 
 
El service to both Manhattan and to Broadwy Ferry continued for many years,  The ferry branch remained even longer.  The BMT’s 1939 map shows the branch to the Ferry, but does not show service to there. The branch may have been torn down after the City took over the BMT in 1940, or during a WWII scrap drive.
 
My addition:   After elevated trains began running across the bridge to Essex Street, service to the ferry was with a one-car shuttle from the eastbound platform od the Marcy Street Station.
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 4, 2021 1:50 AM

Also from Henry, a view around 1946.  No Third Avenue conduit cars, long gone, and space there devoted to automobiles.  Plenty of double-end 8000 Peterr Witts in service.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 8, 2021 8:36 AM

The Nortons Point line, shown in previous postings on this thread, had a direct double-track connection at the Srillwell Avenue elevated terminal to the two Culver Line tracks used by the "F" today.  That connection was maintained for the weed-spray train and possibly other work equipment.  But its connection to the Brooklyn streetcar system was via the Surf Avenue tracks of the Sea Gate line that was converted to bus in 1947, although Nortons Point continued for another four years.

Here is a Nortons Point car on a shop move on Surf Avenue, Coney Island in 1948:

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 8, 2021 8:48 AM

Two Graham Line photographs from Winter 1947-1948:

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 8, 2021 9:04 AM

Another Graham line winter photo, here (I guess) at L. I. City:>

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 20, 2021 2:23 PM

Back to Ocean Avenue

Jay Street and Myrtle Avenuue 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 21, 2021 5:02 AM

The Flatbush Avenue line was the heaviest Brooklyn line yet it never got PCCs in regular servicde and never cossed the Brooklyn Bridge into Manhatan at Park Row.  It did intersect many subway lines, BMT, IRT, and IND, and I suspect most commuter users paid the double five-cent fare to connect to a subway line for transportation to work-place.  In my memory, and probably from the 1931(?) introduction of the 6000s and 6100s (latter with leather-covered seats), until cnversion to bus, it always ran wirh rhese single-end :eter Witts with turnstyle at the entrance, exact-fare encouraged but not demanded.

Interesting how cmaritively undeveloped the downtown Brooklyn Tillary-Street Loop area was in 1947.  The Manhattan Bridge is in the background.

Typical Flatbush Avenue scened, a cmmercial street its length:

Nstrand Avenue was another heavy line, feedigf some transfer passengers to rhe Flatbush Avenuem. more paying the extra fare for the IRT's Nostrand AVenue line, and a minority riding the line over the Williamsburg Bridge to Manhattan, reaced by the tracks also used by the Broadway and the Utica Avenue line under the Broadway (Brooklyn) Elevated (now J and Z).

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:14 AM

More, the Hamilton Avenue Loop. downtown Brooklyn, with the not-quite completed ventilation building for the Brooklyn - Battery Tunnel, but which line?  And a view from Hwry Raudenbush of the site today.  The crowd is boarding a Flatbush Avenue car in a tyical scene.  For the other two pictures, I'm waiting for information.  73-74 yesrs is a long time.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 30, 2021 5:53 AM

The Nortons Point Line crossing the street one-block-west of Stillwell Avevenue on a bridge or elevated structure, as seen from across Surf Avenue, Coney Island.  The tracks on Surf Avenue remained after the regular Sea Gate line went bus, as the only track connection between the Nortons Point Line and the rest of the streetcar system.   Previous posts show the Nortons Point Line and a Nortons Point car on Surf Avenue.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 2, 2021 11:31 AM

Henry Raudenbush

Attachments5:48 PM (1 hour ago)
 
 
Nice pictures!  Did a bit of location seeking.
 w.
 
11214  As you say, Nortons Pt line just west of Stillwell Ave.  Crossing over W.15 St.
 
 
 
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 9, 2021 8:08 AM

Furnished by Henry:  Is this a newly painteed Nortins Point car on its transfer move on Coney Island's Surf Avenue or is it at some other locatin?

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