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Third Avenue Lightweight Streetcars

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:42 PM

Correct.  First came the horsecar streetcar, Manhattan's second, after the NY & Harlem on 4th Avenue and lower Park Avenue, ,then came the steam-operated elevated, then conversion of the horsecar line to cable. then cable to conduit electrification, then conversion of the steam elevated line to electricity, then rebuilding of the elevated with a continuous center track, then conversion of the streetcar to bus with tracks above 59th Street kept in service several months for use of the 65th Street shops for Queensboro Bridge cars and K and 125 X put-ins and pull-outs, then abandonment and removal of the elevated.

rc can more easily provide the exact dates.

Note correction to a previous post and insertion of the missing photo.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, January 1, 2021 11:16 PM

I presume they were built as competitors.  Did they eventually under the same management ?

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 2, 2021 7:08 AM

The Third Avenue line converted to cable in two sections, north of 6th on Dec 4, 1893 and to the Post Office on February 11, 1894. According to Hilton's "Cable Car in America" it required 4350 tons of iron yokes and 46000 barrels of cement.  The cable installation was barely complete before TARS started converting other lines to conduit electric operation.  The Third Avenue line was converted in 1899. Among cable lines Third Avenue was considered number two in traffic density, after Chicago's  State Street line.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 2, 2021 12:31 PM

Midland Mike:  All the lines dikscussed in my posting were built as competitors.  For a short time, all streetcar lines were leased to the Metropolitan Railway, but reverted to the originsal owners shofrtly after that company entered receivership.

Unification in Manhattan between surface and rapid transit took place well after bus conversion and even after end of the South Ferry - Chatham Square part of the Third Avbenue Elevated.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 4, 2021 10:44 PM

Conduit cars equipped with poles (1947) on the 161st-163rd St. Crosstown, probably on West 155th Street Manhattan just west of 8th Avenue, the Polo Grounds, and the McdCoombs Dam Bridkge to The Bronx, where 186 is headed, with the end point the destination sign shows as Hunts Point.  127 will get as far as Amsterdam Avenue.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 14, 2021 1:34 PM

Two on the "T" on Amsterdam Avenue

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 17, 2021 5:17 AM

Conduit car as intended as built on Third AvenueL

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 9:10 AM

Jan. - March 1947 some ex-Broadway-42nd Street "Huffliners" were used on the "K" before being sold to Sao Paulo, Brazil: 

While some ex 59th-Street cars got poles and joined the similar cars in The Bronx, here just west of Bruckner and University:

while others sayed as conduit cars a few months more and were used on the Third & Amsterdam line, evntually also getting  poles, with some going to Vienna in 1949.

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 25, 2021 12:30 PM

2nd car of a two-car fan-trip, photo from the rear-window of the first car.  Not sure whether this is ibna residential section on the New Rochell loop or on the Tuckahoe Road line in Yonkers.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 26, 2021 9:01 AM

Regukar route 8, Riverdale Avenue, car at the south end of this single-track, one passing siding, two car Yonkers line, the north end at Main Street.  The difference in  paving marks the New Yrk City (The Bronx) - Yonkers boundery.   As far as I know, this lilne never ran siuth into New York City.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 26, 2021 3:28 PM

That paving change makes an unmistakable demarcation line!  My late father-in-law was a Yonkers kid, he probably knew exactly where it was.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 4:22 AM

More from the fan-trip, Nererhan Avenue Line (One may need additional work.):

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 25, 2021 9:39 AM

Back to Manhattan, and it is 1937, and 555 is still unpainted to demonstrate that 551 - 600 are indeed aluminum.  At 121st and Broadway, 555 is northbound, and Union Theological Seminary is on the west side of Broadway.

To the Brnx, the first streetcar that I actually ran. on the Bailey Avenue line.

The north terminal was at W 231 and Broadway, and previous photos show a second-hand car there.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, May 21, 2021 9:56 AM


Enhanced side-view?

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 2:59 AM

Looking NE on Westchester Avenue, with the edlevated structure still used by the Lexington Avenue "6" train.  Year 1939 home-built 651 was normally used on the "Pelhsm Bar Parkway.T" Tremont & Burnside Avernues Line, but here carries a removable plate X - 167th Street Crioxsxtowsn.  Westchester Avenue is its eastern terminal.  Eds are chanhged on the northbound track also used by Westchester Avenue "A" cars to Pelham Bay Parkway.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 8, 2021 4:10 AM

185 is at the intersection where 125th turns from going directly west to a nrthwest alignment.  Third Avenue had a horsecar, then battery-car line that used the connecting street south-east to 110th Street, and then 110th to the East River.  Note that the eastbound switchpoint has not been removeed, even in 1947, more than 20 years after the switch ceased being used.

eastbo

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 8, 2021 4:27 AM

Interior of the 65th Street and Third Avenue Carhouse, main floor:

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 11:37 AM

301 - 400 were built in the 3rd Av. & 65th St. Shop in 1936 - 1937.  301-390 were pole cars, mostly assigned to Yonkers, some to the "A" New Rochelle - Subway, and 5 or 6 to Ogden Avenue, The Bronx.  391 - 400 were Manhattan conduit cars, initially serving with some of the 101 - 200 cars on Broadway - 42nd Street, but beginning in 1948 replaced by the double-end Peter-Witt "Huffliners" and transfered to 3rd and Amsterdam ("T") and 125th St St. Nich & B;way, ("K" for Kingsbridge).

At Amsterdam & 145th St., both the T and the K crossed the  conduit & wire 149th St. Crosstown X.  Connecting curves were used by the one-car, every 45-minutes B'way-145th St. line.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 25, 2021 3:21 AM

also posted on the Remembering the Third Avenue Elevated thread:

A Joe Franks picture, looking east at the Elevated's Fordham Road Station.  The Third Avenue Transit sweeper and relocated ex-Manhattan Streetcar are both on one od the two stub tracks that remain from the long-gone 3rd Avenue Bronx streetcar line, not on the Fordham Road tracks used by the X 207-Fordham Crosstown, and C Bronx and Van Courtland Park regular cars.  Others assumed that the train of composites on the Elevated's center track is a Through Express from 241 St. to City Hall, but both morning and evening Through Expresses operated on the local track of the correct direction, since they made all stops north of Tremont Avenue.  Instead, it is morning Through Express equipment running light returning from City Hall to its regular lay-up location on the center track between Fordham Road and Gun Hill Road:

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 19, 2021 11:22 AM

South end of the Southern Boulevard Line at 133rd Street and north end, on tracks shared by the "C" Bronx and Van Courtland Parks line, at Bronx Park Wesr and Fordham Road.   668 lost its oriignial trucks as applied to the 646-685 cars and now rides on trucks intended for the 626-645 Manhattsn cars, which got poles for Bronox service in April 1947, like 629 behind, now at Branford (www.shorelinetrolley.oorg).  All these cars were built in 1939 and were the last new streetcars for New York City.  (The Brooklyn PCCs came in 1936, and the second-hand New Bedford cars in 1947 for Queensboro Bridge.)

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 22, 2021 3:12 PM

Post deleted

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 23, 2021 11:18 AM

Post deleted

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 26, 2021 6:44 AM

Regarding above posts deleted..

There were incidents of catcher-ropes breaking in Brooklyn, old cars re-activated for WWII icreased riswersip and one line's restoration.  But 128. the entire 101-200, 391-400, and 6236-645 ex-Manhattan conduit cars received new trolley ropes.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 26, 2021 7:01 AM

More Third Avenue Transit photos:

A Southern Blvd. car on Boston Road, north of the intersection with Southern Blvd. appraching West Farms Car House:

 

381 operating as a Bailey Avenue car:

Different day, as a Boston Road car:

Two of the same car on the siding adjacent to the West Farms Carhouse:

140 on Boston Road near the West Farms Car House:

352 at Southern Boulevard and--- E. 152nd St.?   E. 162nd St.?

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 26, 2021 8:09 PM

Ex-Manhattan 140 near West Farms Carhouse on Boston Road and ex-Ogden Avenue with bright sunlight and the elevated structure's shadows maximizing contrast:

 

A much earlier posting on this thread does show 140 as a Manhattan conduit car.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 27, 2021 10:01 AM

Apologies for the duplicate photo.  But here are three more..  All three already  had photos posted, but in different locations and even in conduit service in Manhattan.  114 and 391 were originally conduit cars.  All three cars  were homebuilt lightweightds. built 1935-1936.

On Boston Road looking north south of the intersection where the 2 and 5 on the elevated structure turn from Southern Boulevard to Boston Road

Further south, looking south, on Boston Road

And here the B stands for Bailey Avenue, not Boston Road.  (TATS had  4 Bs, 2 Ts, 2 Vs, 2 Ss, 2As, and 7 Xs.) 

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, August 28, 2021 2:50 PM

Two more.  One aside West Farms carhouse, with an odd sign on Westchster Avenue , the A line, but I suppose this operator's assignment took him to the Tremont Avenue line, as well.  Consequently, the defaced dash sign.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 28, 2021 8:19 PM

I'd heard of that hell-bound train, but not this.

"He came awake with an anguished roar/And prayed and prayed on that barroom floor/And his prayers and vows were not in folly/For he never rode that hell-bound trolley"

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 6, 2021 3:01 AM

One technically good photo at Bronx Park West and Fordham Road, a Souther Boulevard car adjacent to the bus replacement of the Fordham - 207th St. Croostown.   And one that could be better on 125th Street looking west.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 9, 2021 8:03 AM

Regarding the bend in 125th Street, Henry Raudenbush supplied this current map:

In the photo and my memory. La Salle went through to join 125th St.   St. Nicholas Ave. is a through street, 11th -168th Street, but it has lots of curves.

Note the signs of the switch removed the horsecar-then=battery line that b ranched off 125th using Hancock Place (w2as at one time Manhattenville vAvenue) and St. Nicholas Avenue to 110th Street, then East to 1st Avenue

 

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