Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:40 PM

daveklepper

Does your last guide before 1968, 1962, show the service?   I recall a streetcar fantrip in Boston around 1962 or later, while the Park St. - Brighton-Newton- Watertown line was still running.   We were using a Type 5.   Two of the riders left at Newton to catch a Bosaton - NY train via Springfield.

 

I gather no service via this route is current.

Dave, since some of my old issues of the Guide are in a box that is under another, heavy box (I am limited to lifting a maximum twenty-five pounds for a little over two weeks yet), I cannot check on some details of start-and-stop of the B&A-NH service. I did find, a little while ago, two issues in 1953: March and May. March shows through service, including over night sleepers, but May shows no through service. Those two riders may have had a connection in Springfield--and the two roads may have re-instituted the service for a time. Most of my old issues are still in the boxes used for packing when we moved here in the summer of '74. Not all of the packing was in serial order--to fill a carton it was necessary to use a later, thinner issue that is not in order with the others.

I'm sorry that I cannot be more precise at this time.

As to current service, you are right: it does not exist. Apparently, Amtrak had the same problem that B&A-NH had fifty-six years ago: there was insufficient traffic to warrant continuing the service. At one time, it was down to one day a week each way, then it was back to several days a week--and then there was none.

Johnny

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:10 PM

I stand somewhat corrected....I have the June 1968 Centennial Edition of the Guide which shows two routnd trip Boston-Albany daily.  But it does not show the Boston-Springfield-NY service.  The next book back for me is 1958.

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Posted by erikem on Friday, June 19, 2009 12:29 AM
Mike, Think other coast and third rail. - Erik (Looks like Safari is messing up the formatting, normally use Firefox)
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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, June 26, 2009 10:24 AM

OK Wanswheel

Looks like it is your question on this thread.

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Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:41 AM

I guess I will throw a quick question out there. In 1948 name the streamlined trains and the RRs they operated over between Dallas/Ft Worth and Houston?

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:39 AM

passengerfan

I guess I will throw a quick question out there. In 1948 name the streamlined trains and the RRs they operated over between Dallas/Ft Worth and Houston?

Al - in - Stockton 

Twin Star Rocket and Sam Houston Zephyr - Burlington - Rock Island

Sunbeam and Hustler - T&NO

Texas Chief  - GC&SF

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Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:25 PM

Mark Did not take you long to answer that question. Guess it is your turn.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, June 29, 2009 2:55 AM

The longest scheduled interurban passenger runs in the US covered a distance of 275 miles between what two cities? Roughly 220 miles were over one road and the remaining 55 miles to one of the end point cities over another. What were the two interurban railroads over which this service operated and at what point did the two roads connect?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 29, 2009 3:06 AM

Cincinnati - Detroit via Toledo, Cincinnati and Lake Erie, and I think the Detroit - Toledo Shore Line, but not sure of the second name.    No sleeper service on this route.

 Through freight serice had an even longer route, from Lousville and Indianapolis to Detroit, via the Indiana Railroad, the Dayton and Western, and the above, or via the LIma route.   One of these freight trains had a name:  The Airoplane.

 

The longest run under one interurban railroad, on the other hand, was San Francisco - Chico on the Sacremento Northerm, for the brief period when the SN ran over the Bay Bridge into SF.     Birneys in Chico were the last SN passsenger operations, and the last nickle fare, lasting until after WWII.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, June 29, 2009 3:45 PM

daveklepper

Cincinnati - Detroit via Toledo, Cincinnati and Lake Erie, and I think the Detroit - Toledo Shore Line, but not sure of the second name.    No sleeper service on this route.

The longest run under one interurban railroad, on the other hand, was San Francisco - Chico on the Sacremento Northerm, for the brief period when the SN ran over the Bay Bridge into SF.     Birneys in Chico were the last SN passsenger operations, and the last nickle fare, lasting until after WWII.

Dave,

Right on. The route was between Cincy and Detroit over which the ca.1930, high speed, one man, "Red Devil" coach and parlor cars of the C&LE ran. Now we need the name of the other interurban which was the shorter segment of the total route and the city where it and the C&LE connected.

The 185 mile SF - Chico run of the SN was interesting because it was 3rd rail powered from Chico to Sacramento, trolley wire from Sacramento to the Bay Area and catenary over the Key System into SF proper. However, I believe the longest interurban run over a single road was the Illinois Terminal's Danville - St. Louis route which was about 228 miles. I'd have to do some digging to find an ITC timetable prior to the abandonment of the Danville - Champaign part of the route to come up with the exact mileage. In its latter years passengers had to change cars at Springfield but in earlier times (perhaps when it was still the Illinois Traction System) through cars were run between Danville and St. L and IIRC  there was even through sleeper service on that route at one time.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, June 29, 2009 5:32 PM

KCSfan
However, I believe the longest interurban run over a single road was the Illinois Terminal's Danville - St. Louis route which was about 228 miles. I'd have to do some digging to find an ITC timetable prior to the abandonment of the Danville - Champaign part of the route to come up with the exact mileage. In its latter years passengers had to change cars at Springfield but in earlier times (perhaps when it was still the Illinois Traction System) through cars were run between Danville and St. L and IIRC  there was even through sleeper service on that route at one time.

Is the Guide acceptable as a source of information as to service and miles? I think I have one late IT timetable.Smile

The June, 1916, issue indicates that there was through coach and parlor, but not sleeper, service between St. Louis and Danville on the Illinois Traction Lines.There was also through parlor service between St. Louis and Danville. This issue shows 99.1 miles from St. Louis to Springfield, and 123.3 miles from Springfield to Danville.

The January, 1930 issue shows no through service (Illinois Terminal) between St. Louis and Danville--and it shows 98.2 miles from St. Louis to Springfield, and 123.0 miles from Springfield to Danville. There was still through parlor and sleeper service between Peoria and St. Louis.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:00 AM

I allways assumed that Toledo was the connecting point.   There was also thorugh Cleveland - Detroit service over what Ithought was the Shore LIne between Toledo and Detroit, if I remember correctly.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:57 AM

daveklepper

I allways assumed that Toledo was the connecting point.   There was also thorugh Cleveland - Detroit service over what Ithought was the Shore LIne between Toledo and Detroit, if I remember correctly.

Dave,

You're correct Toledo was the connecting point. I believe you're thinking of the Lake Shore Electric which the C&LE combined with to run through freights between Cincy and Cleveland via Toledo. This was a very successful and profitable business for both the C&LE and LSE and overnight trains of up to six interurban boxcars ran between the two cities. Door to door pick up and delivery was offered in both cities. LCL pickups were made in each city until 5:00 pm and deliveries were made in the other city beginning at 8:00 am the next morning. Second day delivery was the best the steam railroads offered so a lot ot their LCL business went to the interurbans.

The through passenger interurbans of the C&LE ran between Toledo and Detroit over another railroad, not the LSE. I'd still like to see if someone can name that other road before declaring a winner

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:43 AM

Eastern Michigan-Toledo Railway

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:33 AM
wanswheel

Eastern Michigan-Toledo Railway

BINGO ! The EM-T is the one. If either you or Dave has a question handy go ahead and ask it.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:41 AM
wanswheel

Eastern Michigan-Toledo Railway

Wikipedia says: Eastern Michigan Railways--and this is listed in the January, 1930, Guide. Also listed in this issue are the Cincinnati, Hamilton & Dayton Railway, the Indiana, Columbus and Eastern Traction Company, and the Lima Route (The Toledo, Bowling Green & Southern Traction Co. and Western Ohio Railway & Power Corporation)--these three were combined into the C&LE in January, 1930.

Wikipedia also tells us the the Eastern Michigan Railways failed in 1932, so the connection to Detroit was then lost.

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 8:06 PM

It seems that Eastern Michigan Railways and Eastern Michigan Toledo Railroad were distinct components of the Eastern Michigan System.

http://www.davesrailpix.com/guides/htm/emr30og.htm

Excerpt from The Lake Shore Electric Railway Story:

"In the aftermath of the Detroit United Railway's 1925 bankrupcy, the Detroit-Toledo line had emerged in September 1928 as the Eastern Michigan-Toledo Railroad, but was in trouble from the beginning. Beset by financial problems and lack of equipment, it attempted to abandon its line in April 1931 but was stopped by legal action from the Lake Shore Electric and Cincinnati & Lake Erie. It then promptly cancelled its interline passenger agreements with LSE and C&LE and the through Cleveland-Detroit limited runs temporarily ceased and were cut back to Toledo. Then on June 18 the Eastern Michigan-Toledo went into receivership. The Lake Shore and the C&LE paid for an appraisal of the property with the idea of buying it, primarily to preserve the freight entry to Detroit. Through passenger service resumed on July 20, partly because the EM-T was so short of cars that it had to use LSE equipment even for its own Detroit-Toledo services, but it was only a temporary breather.

"After more legal wrangling the Eastern Michigan-Toledo finally received permission to abandon on September 21, 1932 and ran its last car October 4."

Easy question: What city in Vermont was once the headquarters of the Northern Pacific Railroad?

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:01 AM

New York was the nominal headquarters of the unbuilt Northern Pacific Railroad during J. Gregory Smith's presidency but he controlled the company by telegraph from his office in St. Albans.

Excerpt from A Study In Human Effort by Edward Hungerford

In the Boston of the early 'fifties, there was an itinerant showman destined to play no small role in America's railroad development. From being the mere owner and operator of a panorama in Boston Town -- a sort of predecessor of the movie in popular favor -- Josiah Perham was eventually to become the first president of one of the outstanding railroad systems of the United States; even though he was never to ride in one of its trains or even to gaze upon its rails. For the very simple reason that before either came into being, Josiah Perham had ceased to live. But the dream that he had dreamed in the busy days of his life was to go forward, decade upon decade, after his death.

Perham's Panorama -- the "Seven-Mile Mirror," it was called -- stood in Washington Street, Boston, and as the gas globes at its entrance proclaimed, it showed, as it turned upon its rollers, the wonders and the beauties of the Great Lakes, Niagara Falls, the St. Lawrence and the Saguenay -- also gas-illuminated. For a mere twenty-five cents one could be transported, almost instantly, to Niagara's rim; could gaze on the glories of that wonder of the world and watch the picture slowly roll past while a top-hatted lecturer gave a clear exposition of it. It met with immediate success. People liked it and flocked to it, by the hundreds, into the thousands.

But the day came when Perham had about exhausted the possibilities of Boston and its immediate suburbs. Very well, he thought, we will reach further out for patronage. We will go down into Rhode Island and even Connecticut, west into Massachusetts, and north into Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine. The idea, created, obsessed him. I will go to the railroads, thought he, and get their cooperation. They will make low rates and bring many people to Boston -- and the "Seven-Mile Mirror."

Perham did not know the New England railroaders of that day. When he presented himself to them, agog with his great plan, they chilled him. Excursions and, especially, reduced rates did not interest them. They sold passenger transportation as the government sells postage-stamps, strictly at retail, at a fixed priced -- whether you bought one, a hundred or a thousand. No bargains. All this they told to Perham as they declined his proposition. But Josiah Perham was the sort of a man who would not take "no" for an answer. He presently found one of the roads giving way, the least little bit. Gradually others followed. The special rates went in, special trains began to run, people flocked into Boston as they had never done before -- over 200,000 came in the summer of 1850 -- and Perham's "Mirror" in Washington Street went into a fresh blaze of popularity. The excursion business in America had been born ... and Josiah Perham was to be known as the father of it all.

That experience gave Perham a real interest in railroads. For some years past he had been a student of the several plans for building a railroad from the Mississippi or the Missouri to the Pacific Coast. He went deeply into the entire matter. The whole idea obsessed him. He came to the point where he could talk of nothing else.

He had definite ideas of his own, this Perham. He had not liked the way that some of these early railroad enterprises were being financed -- big business was already beginning to show its hand in them. So when he finally launched his plan for the People's Pacific Railroad, it was with the distinct understanding that there should be no bond issues or other forms of money loans. He had a great idea: He would get one million men, each to put up one hundred dollars in cash for just one share of the stock of the new company. That would give him a working capital of $100,000,000. His original plan was not to permit any stockholder to own more than one share of stock, so no one man or group would control the road. He eventually softened on this phase of the plan.

To work out this scheme took time, and before Perham had his plan in any concrete form the entire nation had been plunged into its deadliest conflict -- the Civil War had begun its ravages. The entire Pacific railroad idea, which had been receiving increased attention everywhere in the late 'fifties, was, for the moment, forgotten. Perham besieged the halls of Congress for a charter -- with no effect. The state of Maine issued him one, but it was not effective enough. Moreover, Perham had become imbued with the idea that his railroad to the Pacific would have to have a land grant in addition to its working capital of $100,000,000. Only the United States government could do that for him.

In all this he was losing valuable time. Oakes and Oliver Ames and their Boston group were coming into the Pacific railroad situation and were preparing to take over the Union Pacific Railroad, already chartered (1862) to reach from Omaha to a meeting place with the new Central Pacific, which Leland Stanford and his three associates in California were preparing to build east from Sacramento as the Central Pacific Railroad. Perham faced this situation rather sadly. But undauntedly. After all, this Union Pacific-Central Pacific route was but one transcontinental railroad in all the great girth of the United States. The War Department had already made surveys for other routes -- to the north and to the south of the central one. Perham chose the northerly one. He went back to Congress, lobbied steadily, and in 1864 he received for himself the charter for the new Northern Pacific Railroad.

It was a magnificent charter. With it went a kingly gift -- 47,000,000 acres of the public land -- a greater area than Holland and Belgium combined; an area equal to a good half of all New England. As the new railroad should progress westward from its announced terminal at Duluth, at the head of the navigable Great Lakes, and be completed in hundred-mile sections, land on either side of its right-of-way would be turned over to it -- to do with as it pleased.

Perham, dazed with what he accomplished, hurried back to Boston, organized his Northern Pacific company and proceeded to sell its stock very much along the lines that he laid down for his original Pacific railroad company. He opened offices in Boston, New York, Philadelphia and elsewhere. But the public rush to obtain shares in the new company -- despite its great potential assets -- did not come to pass. Perham found it impossible to sell his one million shares at one hundred dollars each. The Civil War was doing things to America, financially. He became thoroughly discouraged.

At this time there came into the picture of the newly born road a group of men who were to see it become -- with its rich assets -- an American railroad of real importance. There were the men who had been making big money in the express companies. Alvin Adams and William G. Fargo; Benjamin P. Cheney, the northern New York Barneys -- now successful wall Street bankers -- William P. Ogden, who had so successfully brought the Chicago and North Western into being, Robert Berdell of the Erie and J. Edgar Thompson of the Pennsylvania and ... John Gregory Smith, president of the Vermont Central Railroad.

They relieved Perham of his railroad burden. The man, in his struggles, had aged greatly and faced an approaching physical breakdown. Moreover, he had accumulated large debts in connection with his lobbying work at Washington and he was the sort of thrifty New Englander who abominates the very idea of debt. Very well, Perham, said this new group, we will pay off every last dollar of your debts -- and relieve you of your charter. This he did and turned over and died a poor man; but secure in the knowledge that he might enter Heaven without a feeling that the sheriff might ever follow him there.

Gregory Smith, they must have said, in effect, you take over this Northern Pacific thing yourself. You are a man who has been thinking in large terms and you are the man who can carry this entire enterprise through to a successful culmination. And so they elected him as president -- the second -- of the Northern Pacific company.

Gregory Smith had been attracting attention with the success of his Vermont Central Railroad. Expanding it to the north and south had placed him in the class of real railroad builders. And he had not hesitated to tell of his ambitions to thrust his road through to the West. Ogdensburgh, New York, at the foot of navigation of the Great Lakes and reached by his affiliate, the Northern Railroad of New York, was not nearly far enough west.

With the Northern Pacific in his control, Vermont Central trains might yet be running to the dock on the edge of Puget Sound or at the mouth of the Columbia. The gap between St. Albans and Duluth, he dismissed. After all, he must have argued, you can take any globe in any schoolroom and on it trace the great circles, those curved arcs that by following the rounded surface of the earth, achieve the savings of many miles of distance. A railroad following a great circle from Vermont to Minnesota, whether it went to the north or the south of Lake Superior, would be far from an impossibility. It offered no great difficulties of construction. No mountain ranges to be crossed and possibly a terrain of large agricultural and mineral possibilities to be tapped. And then, the Northern Pacific -- plunging itself into one of the richest farm and timber and mineral countries in all the world.

For six years, Gregory Smith remained president of the Northern Pacific and then he retired, without even having tried to organize the connecting link between that property and his own. Too many other problems occupied him. There had been some criticism by a few of the Northern Pacific directors that Smith was more interested in the Vermont Central than in Northern Pacific, which was probably true, but that was not the real reason!

A new force, also a dominant one, had come into the Northern Pacific. This force was one Jay Cooke of Philadelphia, at the moment probably America's foremost banker, and it was Cooke who had been chosen to float the finances for the new Northern Pacific enterprise. He took hold of the job with avidity. He had just met with a splendid measure of success in the floatation of United States bonds for financing the War. Therefore, it was argued, he was the ideal man to take hold of the financing of this great new transcontinental railroad -- the largest to be launched in the country, as yet. For some reason, Cooke had hit upon the figure of two cents a day interest for each hundred dollars loaned the federal government and because of this his bonds quickly became known as the "seven-thirties," and as such, achieved an enormous popularity. The first Northern Pacific's were also "seven-thirties."

J. Gregory Smith watched these preparations, with ill ease. His banking connections and his New England conservatism did not approve of these high interest rates. In the long run, he was proved to be right. Cooke and his once-powerful banking houses were caught in the Black Friday panic of 1873 and came to a crashing failure. Northern Pacific went down with him. And it was several years before construction could be resumed upon the struggling road. By which time Jay Cooke was entirely out of the picture.

The specific point on which Smith and Cooke broke, was on the St. Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba Railroad, a parent of the present Great Northern system. The bonds of this road were owned by bankers in Amsterdam, Holland. The road came early into financial difficulties and the Northern Pacific, through Gregory Smith, was offered these bonds -- which carried with them control of the St. Paul, Minneapolis and Manitoba -- that Smith went to Cooke, explaining to him the vital rights of control of the road, already partly built out of St. Paul. Smith argued that, by purchasing the bonds at a nominal price from the Dutch bankers, the Northern Pacific would forever prevent the building of any other road between it and the Canadian border. Cooke could not see this proposition or its benefits to Northern Pacific, and then it was that J. Gregory Smith retired forever from the western rail picture. James J. Hill, former harbor-master of St. Paul, picked up the bonds and with them began the construction of still another transcontinental which, from the beginning, prospered -- became the Great Northern Railway -- and eventually bought and controlled Northern Pacific.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, July 7, 2009 9:37 AM

wanswheel
Easy question: What city in Vermont was once the headquarters of the Northern Pacific Railroad?

The question was easy enough, but the answer was not.Smile

Great information that I had never before seen. The origin of excursion fares (which may have led to commuted fares for people who rode to and from work every day; the original commuters were the railroad companies themdelves), one man's tenacity, Jay Cooke's high interest rates,  etc.

Johnny

 

 

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, July 7, 2009 9:48 AM

A hundred years ago a transfer steamer, the Maryland, carried Boston-Washington trains from the Bronx to Jersey City. Name these two trains.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 8, 2009 3:06 AM

Definitely the Federal, rerouted via the Poughkeepsie Bridge when it was opened, then via the Hell Gate and Penn Station.

The other historic named thorugh trains were the Senator, Patriot, and Colonial,   (Congressional was always just a NY-Washington train.)   Guessing which one of these had the longest history, I would guess the Colonial.   But it could have been one of the other two.

 It definitely was NOT the Montrealer/Washingtonian, which began operation onliy after the Hell Gate Bridge opened.

 If the Colonial is not the right answer, then I don't win, and whoever chooses the right answer wins.  If they wish to win..   

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, July 8, 2009 10:29 AM

Dave, that's right, the Federal and the Colonial. Your turn.

The original Maryland was the first railroad transfer ferry, built in 1852 for the Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore Railroad and bought by the New York & New England Railroad in 1875. Boston to Washington through trains began running in 1876, called Centennial trains because they stopped at Philadelphia for the Centennial Exposition. The Maryland burned to a crisp in the Harlem River in 1888, with the northbound night train on deck. Nobody died. The second Maryland was built in 1889 and ceased to carry passenger trains in 1912. Probably the Titanic made the New Haven nervous. Poughkeepsie Bridge added about 100 miles, which was okay at night. I think the day train, the Colonial, was discontinued until Hell Gate. 

http://history.vineyard.net/photos/vh2/v25402.jpg

http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=G90F259_093F&t=w

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, July 10, 2009 3:16 AM

I think the second Maryland was bought by the PRR and moved to St. Charles - Norfolk freightcar transfer service (with possibly some passenger accommodation).  I am not sure how long it remained in this service.

My question, should be easy:  What was the USA's first interurban line called that from the start, what larger system(s) did it become part of, and under who's management, company and name, was it abandoned and why.  Bonus: What kind of equipment was used when service terminated and what became of that equpment?

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:31 AM

Charles Henry's Anderson-Alexandria Interurban.  1898 with 45-foot double-truck wood cars designed to resemble conventional vestibuled railroad coaches.   Became part of Union Traction, then Indiana Railroad, and was abandoned for too little traffic in 1932.   Some original cars did remained and were scrapped by the Indiana Railroad as part of their disposing of wood cars, even before the high speeds arrived.

On what railroad did the first passenger train at or exceeding 60 mph run?

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Posted by Great Western on Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:16 AM

 I guess the question about the first train speed of 60mph or above is directed at US railroads.

However, in 1847/48 these speeds were attained by the South Devon Railway on their line that used the "atmospheric" system of propulsion.   An interesting event, well before its time and amongst other things due to the proximity of the sea was a failure. 

Given the fact that it had been said in the early 1830's that traveling at more than 10mph could well kill you can you imagine the amazement people had when traveling or seeing these trains.

http://www.mybrunel.co.uk/railways/atmospheric/

Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad

https://www.buckfast.org.uk/

If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:39 PM

In the U.S. it was probably a CV train pulled by a famous Baldwin 4-2-2, the Governor Paine.

http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1847851250&id=49

Excerpt from History of the Baldwin Locomotive Works 1831-1920

Early in 1848, the Vermont Central Railroad was approaching completion, and Governor Paine, the President of the Company, conceived the idea that the passenger service on the road required locomotives capable of running at very high velocities. Henry R. Campbell, Esq., was a contractor in building the line, and was authorized by Governor Paine to come to Philadelphia and offer Mr. Baldwin ten thousand dollars for a locomotive which could run with a passenger train at a speed of sixty miles per hour. Mr. Baldwin at once undertook to meet these conditions. The work was begun early in 1848, and in March of that year Mr. Baldwin filed a caveat for his design. The engine was completed in 1849 and was named the "Governor Paine." It had one pair of driving wheels, six and one-half feet in diameter, placed back of the firebox. Another pair of wheels, but smaller and unconnected, was placed directly in front of the firebox, and a four-wheeled truck carried the front of the engine. The cylinders were seventeen and one-quarter inches diameter and twenty inches stroke, and were placed horizontally between the frames and the boiler at about the middle of the waist. The connecting rods took hold of "half-cranks" inside of the driving wheels. The object of placing the cylinders at the middle of the boiler was to lessen or obviate the lateral motion of the engine, produced when the cylinders were attached to the smoke arch. The bearings on the two rear axles were so contrived that by means of a lever, a part of the weight of the engine usually carried on the wheels in front of the firebox could be transferred to the driving axle. The "Governor Paine" was used for several years on the Vermont Central Railroad, and then rebuilt into a four-coupled machine. During its career, it was stated by the officers of the road that it had run a mile in forty-three seconds.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 19, 2009 2:41 AM

I did mean USA railroads so you are the winner and should ask the next question.  Also, I would question whether an atmoshpheric railroad is really a railroad in the sense of what Classic Trains is all about, but other can give their opinion on that matter.

I though it was the Western of Massachusetts that became part of the Boston and Albany, with a normnal 4-4-0, but apparently you have uncovered the "prior art " and I stand corrected.

 

Also, one othe correction:  The Muncie streetcars did dissapear in 1931.   I was thinking of Anerson, not Muncie.  The Indiana railroad got permission to discontinue local service because they were loosing lots of money due to unrestricted jitney competition, with the City government unwilling to cange the situation.  But the Indiana Railroad was invited back much later and ran the local bus system from about 1938 through WWII and a few years after.  After 1931, only the tracks required for the interurbans remained, and Muncie did have interurbna service to both Indianapolis and Fort Wauyne until January 1941 and the end of all Indian Railroad electric car service.  They were then a bus and truck company.

 

Regarding the Federal's move to the Poughkeepsie Bridge and the sale of the second Maryland, the reason is clear:  the replacement of the wood sleepers with the much heavier steel sleeping cars.  Not only is it probable that the overall weight limitations of the boat were exceeded, but there would have been a balance problem.  There was not much difference in weight between the New Haven's wood coaches and the wood Pullman sleepers.  But in the steel era there was a considerable difference.  Without some extra switching time (and expence), the load on the boat would been unbalanced, causing a list.

 

As far as I know ALL steel Pullman sleepers had ice air conditioning, even the first built for the Penn Station inauguration.   Am I correct on this?

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The English Riviera, South Devon, England
  • 471 posts
Posted by Great Western on Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:11 AM

To make a clarification.  The South Devon Railway, which eventually became part of the famous Great Western Railway. was not a solely atmospheric system.  It had broad gauge steam locos - very fast runners for their time. The atmospheric trials were done in the hope that the severe grades encountered in the County of Devon would be more easily overcome using the lighter atmospherically operated railcars.   So in that respect they were part of a once Classic Railroad system.  Incidentally there are more ex-Great Western Railway locos in preservation in the UK than any of the former UK railroads.

I did mean USA railroads so you are the winner and should ask the next question.

On this basis the question I would ask is this.

I know  that some  Western divisions of the Milwaukee Road had electrified sections  - with an unfortunate gap between them.  How frequent an occurrence, due to very bad weather conditions or natural hazards such as land slips, forest fires etc., was the electrified sections temporarily closed down and services operated by steam or diesel locos?

 

Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad

https://www.buckfast.org.uk/

If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, July 19, 2009 3:31 PM

Having grown up along the Othello - Tacoma electrification of the Mulwaukee it seemed to be the one most frequently to encounter problems. This was due to the heavy snows on the west slope of the Cascades. For the most part they did very well at keeping the line open to electrics but that heavy wet snow of the west slope of Snoqualmie Pass played havoc with the Milwaukee electrification. The GN further north never had the same problem once the Cascade tunnel was built as the GN electrification began just a short distance from the western end of the tunnel that carried it under Stevens Pass. It seemed like in the last years before the west end of the Milwaukee was dieselized it was worse whether this was due to maintenance or just age of the overhead I don't know. Diesls carried the passenger trains the last few years before the final trains ran in 1960 but the electrics soldiered on for a few more years on the freights before they that too became diesels. I know that Milwaukee electrification lasted longer on the Idaho-Montana section thatn the coast division.

Al - in - Stockton  

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