Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:47 PM

daveklepper

I remember this very clearly.   Also, if I remember correctly, the same occured on those railroads, Alton, IC, and Wabash, runniing overnight Chicago - St. Louis sleepers.   The Pullman sleepers were needed because of a massive movement of military from the Atlantic to the Pacific coast, since Germany surrended about five months before Japan.

The men-only parlor car allowed men to sleep in their underwear or shorts without disturbing women.

Dave, you, too, are close to the reason. But, this was not a voluntary thing. Pullman and the railroads did not pull these sleepers off the overnight lines because it was a nice thing to do. What forced the temporary discontinuance of these sleeper lines? For no extra credit, what was the criterion that determined which lines were suspended?

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:41 PM

Okay, regarding the NH losing its sleepers, is this one of those "for the Duration" situations?  That the military ordered the sleepers reassigned?   At one time ordinary enlisted men were expected to sleep two in a lower berth (still one in the upper berth), so the sleepers' capacities would probably be at least as great as a pre-World War II parlor car.  Not to mention a better night's sleep for the sevicemen. 

 

Katharine Hepburn:  "Between the upper class and the lower, give me the lower."

Jimmy Stewart:  "Only if you can't get a drawing room."

from The Philadelphia Story, MGM, 1940. 

 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:20 PM

al-in-chgo
Okay, regarding the NH losing its sleepers, is this one of those "for the Duration" situations?  That the military ordered the sleepers reassigned?

Al, that's close enough. The Office of Defense Transport ordered that all sleepers assigned to runs of 450 miles or less were to be used for transporting returned military. This took care of many overnight runs--such as New York-Buffalo (sleepers that went through Buffalo, with destinations more than 450 miles from NYC were not affected), Chicago-St. Louis, Louisville-St. Louis, Louisville-Nashville, etc. I know of one 161.1 mile line that was allowed to continue: Southern's Atlanta to Birmingham. On its return from Birmingham (on #12), the car continued to NYC on the Piedmont Limited; this was a 10-1-2 which apparently came into Atlanta from NYC on #29; perhaps the Atlanta-Birmingham leg (on #11) was considered to be a continuation from #29 even though it had a different line number (Pullman line 2653 NYC to Atlanta; 2641 Atlanta to Birmingham; 2657 Birmingham to NYC).

Your question.

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:35 PM

Great, Johnny!  We're just sitting down to an early dinner so please give me a little while to verify my question. 

al

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:48 PM

Okay, here's the question:  I think it's something people will either know or not. 

Give the wheel arrangement (configuration), in code, for the GG-1. 

 

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:44 PM

daveklepper

I remember this very clearly.   Also, if I remember correctly, the same occured on those railroads, Alton, IC, and Wabash, runniing overnight Chicago - St. Louis sleepers.   The Pullman sleepers were needed because of a massive movement of military from the Atlantic to the Pacific coast, since Germany surrended about five months before Japan.

The men-only parlor car allowed men to sleep in their underwear or shorts without disturbing women.

And if the men encountered the women, they might get a little "disturbed" themselves if you know what I mean.  - a.s.

 

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:57 PM

Looks like I rudely interrupted myself.  Here's the new question again: 

Give the wheel arrangement (configuration), in code, for the GG-1. 

Salud!  -  a.s.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:52 AM

al-in-chgo

Looks like I rudely interrupted myself.  Here's the new question again: 

Give the wheel arrangement (configuration), in code, for the GG-1. 

Salud!  -  a.s.

 

That's easy enough:  2-C+C-2

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by al-in-chgo on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:13 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

al-in-chgo

Looks like I rudely interrupted myself.  Here's the new question again: 

Give the wheel arrangement (configuration), in code, for the GG-1. 

Salud!  -  a.s.

 

That's easy enough:  2-C+C-2

 

 

Thumbs Up 

Paul, you win, and you have the right to post the next question.  -   a.s.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:18 AM

The Owl was unusual in the use of parlor cars to replace sleepers, although one of the Chicago - St. Louis routes may have done similarly.   Other sleeper runs that were closed included the NY - Washington Edison and Indianapolis - Chicago.   The Federal order, like the order stopping conversion of streetcars and interurbans to buses, was not withdrawn until sometime after Japan surrended.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:03 AM

The South Shore Line is currently electrified at 1500 VDC.  What was the electrification of its predecessor, the Chicago Lake Shore & South Bend?

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:44 PM

daveklepper

The Owl was unusual in the use of parlor cars to replace sleepers, although one of the Chicago - St. Louis routes may have done similarly.   Other sleeper runs that were closed included the NY - Washington Edison and Indianapolis - Chicago.   The Federal order, like the order stopping conversion of streetcars and interurbans to buses, was not withdrawn until sometime after Japan surrended.

I do not know just when the ODT order was withdrawn; it may well have been some time on up in 1946 (my three brothers who were in the service came home in the spring of '46). My information came from the November, 1945 Guide. One can wonder why 450 miles was chosen as the cutoff point; there may be a record of the reasoning somewhere (I'm sure everyone involved in the decision is now departed this life).

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:20 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The South Shore Line is currently electrified at 1500 VDC.  What was the electrification of its predecessor, the Chicago Lake Shore & South Bend?

Would it have been 750 Volts of direct current?  I can think of some trolley lines that started out at that voltage so maybe a tradition got started.  -  a.s.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:57 PM

al-in-chgo

CSSHEGEWISCH

The South Shore Line is currently electrified at 1500 VDC.  What was the electrification of its predecessor, the Chicago Lake Shore & South Bend?

Would it have been 750 Volts of direct current?  I can think of some trolley lines that started out at that voltage so maybe a tradition got started.  -  a.s.

 

Definitely not.

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Posted by erikem on Friday, May 29, 2009 12:01 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The South Shore Line is currently electrified at 1500 VDC.  What was the electrification of its predecessor, the Chicago Lake Shore & South Bend?

 

6600 Volts, 25 Hz AC. Conversion to 1500 Volts DC was done for compatibility with the IC electrification as well as for better economy of operation. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 29, 2009 6:44 AM

erikem

CSSHEGEWISCH

The South Shore Line is currently electrified at 1500 VDC.  What was the electrification of its predecessor, the Chicago Lake Shore & South Bend?

 

6600 Volts, 25 Hz AC. Conversion to 1500 Volts DC was done for compatibility with the IC electrification as well as for better economy of operation. 

 We have a winner!!  Erikem, your question.

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Posted by erikem on Friday, May 29, 2009 11:31 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

 We have a winner!!  Erikem, your question.

 

As long as we're on the subject of AC powered interurbans...

What was the first interurban to be equipped with single phase AC?

- Erik 

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, May 30, 2009 7:21 AM

I think it was the

Schenectady Railway Co., Aug. 17, 1904, Schenectady to Ballston, General Electric motor.

Indianapolis & Cincinnati Traction Co. probably second, Indy to Rushville, Westinghouse motor.

New York Times article, The Single-Phase Motor

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9C04E0D81230E132A25755C0A96F9C946597D6CF

Mike

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Posted by erikem on Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:00 PM

 Mike,

Hilton and Due's book claims that the I&C Rushville line was the first, but your answer is good enough to be a winner, so it's your question.

- Erik

P.S. Will have to look into the Schenectady Railway Company - one of the nice things about participating in these Q&A contests is picking up on a lot of interesting RR trivia. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:34 PM
Erik, two other books decided my answer.  The Schenectady Electrical Handbook (1904)

http://books.google.com/books?id=bftUAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA97

Proceedings of the American Electric Railway Association (1922) says Indianapolis & Cincinnati Traction is "notable as one of the earliest successful single-phase systems."

http://books.google.com/books?id=GRQpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA270

How many horses powered General Pershing's horse car?

Mike

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:45 AM

Mike the General Pershings Zephyr Silver Charger had a single 1,000 hp 567 so was basically similar to the Rock Island Diesel B units that had a single diesel and a baggage compartment with a cab at the blunt end to forward the Colorado Springs section of the Rocky Mountain Rocket to and from Limon Colorado. It operated behind a traditional E unit from and to Chicago. These two RI units eventually received a second 567 where the baggage compartment had been and were operated in Chicago suburban service. MP also had a similar single engine E unit baggage compartment unit as well originally assigned to the Delta Eagle.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:57 AM
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:27 PM

Name the primary and secondary transcontinental trains when the CP and CN first placed there streamlined cars in service in 1955?

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:42 PM

CP:   Canadien/Canadian,  Dominion

 

CN    Super-Continental      Continental

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 4:44 PM

daveklepper

CP:   Canadien/Canadian,  Dominion

 

CN    Super-Continental      Continental

Absolutely correct. Your Question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:11 PM

Don't answer until you have at least ten answers to these questions:

In the glorous days of electric traction in the USA, what  specific streets in what specific cities had six electric railway tacks for a considerable distance, not just a yard throat or temrinal.   Electric railway tracks may include streetcars, interurbans, subways, elevated, commuter lines, and any combination.   At least one street had eight tracks.   At least one bridge had eight tracks.  Name these also.

 

Bonus question:   Three streets have six tracks today.  Two are included in the above paragraph in general.   One is new.

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:28 PM

daveklepper

Don't answer until you have at least ten answers to these questions:

In the glorous days of electric traction in the USA, what  specific streets in what specific cities had six electric railway tacks for a considerable distance, not just a yard throat or temrinal.   Electric railway tracks may include streetcars, interurbans, subways, elevated, commuter lines, and any combination.   At least one street had eight tracks.   At least one bridge had eight tracks.  Name these also.

 

Bonus question:   Three streets have six tracks today.  Two are included in the above paragraph in general.   One is new.

I think you may have set the bar a little high on this one, Dave.  Especially the ten-answer minimum. 

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, June 05, 2009 7:40 AM

I'll go for part of the throw:  Boston, NY, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cleveland, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Montreal, Toronto, and Indianapolis with only Philadelphia and Chicago remaining.

All guess work only.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:38 AM

The bar isn't as high as you think.   I should be easy if you think through.   Again, I want specific streets and the bridge (optional), not just the name of the city or neighborhood.

 

Need some hints?    Some of the streets had six tracks but also had eight power rails.  For a short distance one had six tracks and twelve power rails.   One of the streets:  six tracks, only two power rails and eight transit-related overhead wires.

 

Stop to think where most electric railway tracks were and which streets they were on and are on what the number of tracks were and are and you will get the answer.   But ten is the minimum number, at least for the present.   Remember, there are three time periods referred to so all ten don't have to be in the same time period.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 2:17 AM

Some more hints.    Photos on a different thread should provide you with three answers.

 

Photos of a  certain subway portal that I feel certain most have seen should provide another answer.

 

A trains article in the late forties or early fifties should give another answer.

 

Route maps of cities with electric railway transportation can give all the answers.

 

One of the six-track sections was actually pictured as such in pictorial maps inside the transit system's rolling stock!

 

In certain cases, and at certain times, not all the tracks were owned by the same company.   In fact, in more than one case, three different companies were involved!   In two cases, four different companies!  

 

I know of sixteen cases, surely you should be able to find ten!

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