Trains.com

Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

773330 views
7440 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 920 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, October 31, 2020 4:19 PM

rcdrye

Texas Crude Oil?

 

Sounds like an obvious answer, but that's not it....

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, October 31, 2020 4:52 PM

Then I'll go with grapefruit juice.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 920 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, October 31, 2020 5:03 PM

rcdrye

Then I'll go with grapefruit juice.

 

Certantly a tastier alternative, but thats not it either....

 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 1, 2020 3:34 AM

Cranberry or Pomagranet Juice, similar tastes/

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 1, 2020 6:52 AM
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 920 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, November 1, 2020 7:04 AM

daveklepper

Cranberry or Pomagranet Juice, similar tastes/

 

no, that wasn't it....

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 920 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, November 1, 2020 7:07 AM

rcdrye

It's not a bad guess, and it would make sense in a more marketing-oriented time, but that wasn't it.

But,

you're sort on the right track, in that a branded beverage was used, and the name somewhat reflected the tenor of the times.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 1, 2020 10:40 AM

Moxie?

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:39 AM

I'd be really surprised if Moxie made it that far west.  Still available in New England where it has its devotees, it tastes sort of like carbonated cough syrup.  Definitely an acquired taste.

Let's try something St. Louis oriented.  How about "Bevo" Anheuser-Busch's "Near Beer".

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 920 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:52 AM

daveklepper

Moxie?

 

No it wasn't Moxie, but you're in the general neighborhood.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 920 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, November 1, 2020 11:59 AM

rcdrye

I'd be really surprised if Moxie made it that far west.  Still available in New England where it has its devotees, it tastes sort of like carbonated cough syrup.  Definitely an acquired taste.

Let's try something St. Louis oriented.  How about "Bevo" Anheuser-Busch's "Near Beer".

 

With Bevo, you're getting a little bit cooler than davekleeper.

Think about it...you can't use champaigne...but appearantly Frisco wanted to use something visually similar to the desired product. If you squint the right way, what they eventually used did fit the bill.

 

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:46 PM

Must have been Ginger Ale...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: FEC MP334
  • 920 posts
Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, November 1, 2020 4:20 PM

rcdrye

Must have been Ginger Ale...

 

Well, you must be right, because thats what it was. Specifically, Canada Dry (Prohibition=Dry, get it?.) I came across several articles concerning The Bluebonnet's inaugrual, and all of them mentioned the ginger ale christening. I don't know if the reporters were impressed by the christening material, or if there was some other message implied by using Canada Dry, but again, using ginger ale gives just enough of an impression of a champagne sendoff.

Rcdrye, the next question is yours.

 

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 2, 2020 6:40 AM

The longest interurban run by a single company was Sacramento Nothern's 186 mile San Francisco-Chico run.  The longest regularly scheduled interline interurban run was over 220 miles, and involved three companies.  It wasn't particularly long lived, and was gone by the 1930s.  Here's some descripton:

The eastern end of the run landed in a major city, and was operated by a company with some reputation for fast trains.  This company supplied the cars.

The middle section was owned in part by the first company and was more valuable for freight connections than the long-distance service.

The western end was interstate to an important small city, over a line whose abandonment meant the effective end of regional trolley freight service.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,032 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 2, 2020 11:34 AM

Was a question very like this not asked toward the beginning of one of the question threads?

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,032 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 2, 2020 11:39 AM

Was a question very like this not asked toward the beginning of one of the question threads?  As in mid-April 2009 here... which just so happens to be what appears when you're set to view last post first and the Forum software shorts out?

Toledo to Cincinnati, for example.  Some good wanswheel research there too..

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 16,032 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 2, 2020 11:42 AM

Was a question very like this not asked toward the beginning of one of the question threads?  As in mid-April 2009 here... which just so happens to be what appears when you're set to view last post first and the Forum software shorts out?  specifically April 17th at 7:43?

Toledo to Cincinnati, for example.  Some good wanswheel research there too...

 

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 2, 2020 1:00 PM

Toledo to Cincinnati is intrastate.  At the time, the easternmost city was the largest in the state.  The destination city was (and is) the second largest in its state, and was a good place to make connections to other cities.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 2:13 AM

Cincinnat - Indianapolis-Terre Haute, via Cincinnati and Lake Erie to Dayton, Dayton and Westerrn to Richmond, In, and Indinana RR or immediate predicessor to Inidanapolis, and continuing to Terre Haute.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 5:59 AM

Too far south, but you have the right idea. The eastern city was larger and more important than Cincinnati, and the other end was a city slightly larger than Terre Haute.

The Terre Haute Indianapolis & Eastern was IRR's predecesor all the way from Richmond to Terre Haute.

Unlike the C&LE's service from Cincinnati which started on the city's edge due to track gauge and double overhead, the service I'm looking for ran downtown to downtown.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 7:46 AM

Clevaland = Fort Wayne

 

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 12:49 PM

daveklepper

Clevaland = Fort Wayne

 

 

End points are right - care to name the interurban lines?

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 6:43 PM

I think, but not certain, Lake Shore Electric, Cincinnati and  Lake Erie, Fort Wayne - Lima RR Co., East to West.   Junctions were Toledo and Lima.

Early abandonment of the Fort Wayne - Lima did not end the freight business, which was rerouted via the Dayton and Western.  The end of the Detroit - Toledo was more serious.

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 7:26 PM

Close. The middle piece was the Fremont & Fostoria, a joint project of the Western Ohio and the Lake Shore Electric.  Also involved was the Toledo Fostoria & Findlay, the link between the WO and the F&F.  All of this was resolved in a bunch of trackage rights agreements so the operation became LSE and Western Ohio (cars suppled by LSE, crews by both) plus the Fort Wayne Van Wert & Lima between those cities.  The TF&F and the Western Ohio were competitors of the C&LE's predecessor Lima-Toledo, though their route was less direct.

The through service ended in 1924, long before the C&LE was formed from the CH&D, L-T and the Indianapolis Columbus and Eastern.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 4, 2020 5:07 AM

When did it start?

My question:

On 42nd Street, Manhattan, in my youth and streetcar-riding days, the tracks from 10th to 12th Avenue were shared by the "X" 42nd-Street Crosstown, and the "10th" Avenue line.  (Third Avenue Railway System to 1942, Third Avenue Transit System afterward) 12th & W. 42nd was the location of of the West Shore, NYCentral System, ferry to Weehawken.  The M13 NY Omnibes 34th St. Crosstown bus also used W. 42nd to reach the Ferry Terminal, using 10th Avenue north from 34th St.  (I think this bus is now more logically named M34 and goes north on 10th, but south on 11th.}

Now why did sime of the conduit-maintenance man-hole covers on the eastbound track only clearly have the raised and shiney letters N. Y. Rys. while all on the westbund track (and most on the eastbound, as well) had T. A. R. S. or T. A. R. R.?  (for Third Avenue Railway System and Third Avenue Railroad.)

 

  • Member since
    May 2012
  • 4,402 posts
Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 4, 2020 7:26 AM

The through Cleveland-Fort Wayne route ran from 1921 to 1924, before and after which there was a scheduled connection in Lima.  The FWVW&L was abandoned in 1932, the D&W in 1937, ending interurban service between Indiana and Ohio.

My guess on the 42nd st. track is that it was owned by NY Rys dating from the New York & Harlem. Similar sections of track owned by one company but only used by another existed in Milwaukee and suburban Chicago.  I'm sure the covers were replaced as they were damaged.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:35 AM

I had my Eastbound and Westbound reversed in the  question.  You are part-way there to the answer.   But why this phenomenon on one track, NY Rys. and TARS, with the other all TARS or TARR? 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Friday, November 6, 2020 7:35 AM

Hint:  No offset conduit.   All centered.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 7, 2020 2:18 PM

Further hint:

 

All tracks TARS, TATS after 1932

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 17,518 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 8, 2020 11:57 AM

Before 1936, when both NYRys and TARS served the Weehawken Ferry, the street scene West of 10th Avenue was quite different and unique.    Not so after 1936.

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter