Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 25, 2019 6:09 AM

Maybe if I added that the route patterns were changed in 1939 due to new construction?

LVT's local lines predated the through service with P&W - besides LVT was a "true" interurban.  The area covered by the system I'm looking for is just about totally built over today. 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, January 25, 2019 1:43 PM

Modifying Mr. Klepper's answer slightly for clarity: doesn't he include the Southern Pacific Red Electric system too?

Personally, I think it's the same railroad a little bit south, the SP East Bay Electric, with part going to Key System (F line until 1958?) after most of the lines shut down around 1941.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 26, 2019 7:27 PM

The Interurban Electric system was SP's East Bay subsidiary that competed with the Key System.  Cars were labelled "Southern Pacific Lines" until shortly before the Bay Bridge opened.  A mix of street running and private ROW, the IE was mainly a suburban operation, extending north and south from Oakland, and covering Alemeda.  Ferries from SP's Oakland Pier and the Alameda Pier were used until the Bay Bridge opened.  Key System and IE each abandoned parts of some lines in 1933 to reduce competitions.  Key Sytem A nd F lines were extended in 1941 over ex-IE trackage.  Berkeley's Adeline Street went from six tracks to four when the Key System cars moved over into the center on IE's reserved median.  IE was all 1200 volt, Key system was 600.  When the lines shared the Bay Bridge, IE operated off 1200v overhead (as did Sacramento Northern), while Key used 600v third rail.

Most of the IE lines were originally steam powered using tank engines, and freight movement (steam or diesel) on the former Dutton Ave. line (Key line A to Havenscourt) outlasted IE's operation on the extension.

The derelict SP 16th St. station in Oakland still shows evidence of the IE, with elevated platforms built into the roof, originally used by the Berkeley lines.  Dutton Ave. and 7th St were rerouted through 16th St, and the Berkely lines started bypassing it when operation over the Bay Bridge began, as the Bridge Railway connection was north of 16th St.

Some of IE's equipment, along with cars from SP's Oregon Red Electric operation (and the Northwestern Pacific, likewise abandoned in 1941) went to the Pacific Electric for further operation.

Key System's modern looking Bridge Units were really new bodies around controls and motors salvaged from 1910 era cars.  Since the Bridge units weighed the same as or more than the cars they were rebuilt from, their performance didn't match their modern appearance.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 29, 2019 2:03 AM

If none of the amswers proposed o date are correct, I propose Yakima.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 6:54 AM

No Overmod got it right, it's the SP's East Bay electric.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:21 AM

Waiting for his question!

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, February 10, 2019 10:17 AM

This one also!! If no question comes to mind then make it a jump ball. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 10, 2019 4:13 PM

Well, since there has not been a question proposed, here is one:

Pullman provided overnight service between the capitals of two adjacent states. I understand that if you left either capital feet first as you went to sleep, you woke up the next morning head first. Why the change in direction? Where did it take place? What were  the two capital cities? What was the road? There was time when no change of sleeping direction because another road handled the car during its transit; what was the "middle" road and where did it connect with the originating and terminating road?

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, February 11, 2019 12:22 PM

How about Denver and Salt Lake City?  If the car was switched at Pueblo it might not get turned.  Change to the 1930s and go west on the Denver and Salt Lake (and Denver and Salt Lake Western Dotsero cutoff).  I seem to remember that prior to the D&SL merger D&RGW trains used their own rails to reach the D&SL, still inside the Denver city limits.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, February 11, 2019 1:35 PM

No; Denver-Salt Lake CIty via Pueblo was not really overnight (board, go to bed, wake up not long before detraining) service. Try another area of the country.

Yes, Utah Junction was the starting point of the Denver and Salt Lake.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 16, 2019 11:40 AM

The dome of one capitol is covered with gold that was mined in the northern part of the state. The structure at the top of the other capitol is not that which the main architect of the building (he was my step-children's great-grandfather) designed; I do not recall, if I ever knew, just what he did design for the top structure. I understand he also had a hand in the first building of the Smithsonian Institute.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, February 16, 2019 1:24 PM

So you're related to Niernsee?  That's impressive!

(Note to others: this strongly suggests to me that the first state is Georgia and the second South Carolina... have at it.)

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:08 PM

Overmod
this strongly suggests to me that the first state is Georgia and the second South Carolina...

In that case... If the car was handled by the Southern it would be switched between trains at either Greenville or Spartansburg, where the track layout would just about demand a change in direction.  Hand the car over to the Blue Ridge RR at Seneca, and pick it back up at Anderson, and passengers would arrive at the destination pointing the same way they started out.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 16, 2019 7:30 PM

Overmod

So you're related to Niernsee?  That's impressive!

(Note to others: this strongly suggests to me that the first state is Georgia and the second South Carolina... have at it.)

 

No, my stepchildren's father was a grandson of Johann Niernsee.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 16, 2019 7:46 PM

Yes, except for a few years when the Blue Ridge handled the car between Seneca and Alston,. passing through Anderson. This line was built from Columbia to Greenville. Since it entered Greenvile more or less from the SE, the direction of the car was changed in Greenville --unless time were taken to wye the car there.

Going through Spartanburg would not have involved a change of direction--consider that it would have used the same track in Spartanburg that the Carolina Special used between Hayne and the continuation of the W line down towards Columbia.

Johnny

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