Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 10:41 AM

Dave, you got the main part of the question.

As to engine change in Monroe, I believe that Monroe was an engine division point on the Southern, so a new engine crew would have been needed to take the train to Lynchburg. This is, however, speculation on my part.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 02, 2019 12:53 AM

An Eastern railroad owned no rolling stock, was not independent, but did report sepaerately to the ICC, and was vital in both freight and passenger service.  It had very few employees.  Its RoW was extremely valuable.

Who and for what?

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 02, 2019 12:59 AM

But apparently I had the reverse, in that the engine change was in Monroe and the junction in Lynchburg.  Strang how memory sometimes tricks up on somethings.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 02, 2019 8:21 AM

New York Connecting Railroad, jointly owned by PRR and NYNH&H, included the Hell Gate Bridge, providing freight and passenger access for the New Haven to the LIRR and other railroads, all but the LIRR via carfloat.  It actually survived as a "railroad company" all the way into the Penn Central era.  It's corporate existence ended when conveyed to Amtrak in 1976 as part of the Conrail/NEC asset split.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 03, 2019 1:47 AM

Correct.   Interesting that a 50-cent surcharge was charged through Samford and East to Newark and West through passengers, but one could ride to Penn Ststion on the New Haven with a regular ticket without the surcharge.   A way to beat the surcharge was obvious.

Your question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 03, 2019 9:26 AM

This large bridge over the Ohio was completed in 1917 by a railroad not normally associated with Kentucky. It was passed on its completion to a jointly owned "railroad" that still exists, and part ownership of the "railroad" was later obtained by another railroad in 1925.  The bridge was designed by the same engineer who designed the largest ever cantilever bridge, which was completed the same year.

Location and owners, including the still extant jointly owned "railroad".

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, January 03, 2019 2:56 PM

In 1914, the CB&Q began constructing the Paducah and Illinois Bridge between Metropolis, Ill., and Paducah, Ky., finishing it in 1917. After the bridge was constructed, the Paducah and Illinois Railroad took ownership. This road was controlled by the Q and the NC&StL. In 1925, the IC bought a 1/3 share of the bridge, and took control of the maintenance, using it as an important part of the Edgewood Cutoff. The P&I is still the corporate name of the owner; the CN manages the operation, and the BNSF takes care of the maintenance.

An interesting corporate history, is it not?

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 03, 2019 5:00 PM

And CSX also uses it?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 04, 2019 6:58 AM

daveklepper

And CSX also uses it?

 

CSX no longer operates in the area.  The ex-NC&StL line was abandoned some time after the NC&StL/L&N merger.

Your question, Johnny!

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, January 04, 2019 9:12 PM

In 1948, the Southern changed the schedule of one of its northbound Atlanta-Washington trains so that, in conjunction with the PRR, fairly decent overnight Pullman service was available Atlanta to New York, leaving in the evening and arriving in the early afternoon. What was the name of the new schedule? Also, when this service was inaugurated a buffet-lounge car was in the consist--and in 1950 a real live  heavyweight open platform observation car took the place of the buffet lounge. Where had this car been used in regular service? Also, what train took the cars south to Atlanta?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 07, 2019 6:44 PM

The New Yorker was added northbound only (train 40) in 1948, slotted at 7:00PM betweern the  Crescent Limited at 1:45 and the coach-only (but streamlined) Southerner at 8:45 PM. The New Yorker and the Southerner shared the same PRR connection to New York. The The New Yorker's Pullmans were returned by the Peach Queen, the principal New York-Atlanta train, and the Crescent.  The New Yorker got the Crescent Limited's 3 Cpt 2DR lounge observations in 1950 when the Royal series 5 DBR lounge observations were delivered for the Crescent.

If the ex-Crescent observations were the ones built for the train in 1925, they were delivered in Southern two-tone, upgraded in 1929, and repainted to Pullman green in 1934, and air-conditioned in 1935.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 07, 2019 8:50 PM

Yes. I do not know of anyother source for the observation cars but the Crescent. I di see one on the rear of the Peach Queen in Charlotte one Morning. I do not remember how it was that I was in Charlotte early enough to see it.

No. 39 did carry one Pullman--from Greensboro to Salisbury. #29 dropped it off at 5:30, and #39 picked it up at 6:25, making it possible for Greensboro-bound passengers to sleep a little later,

Sad to say, in the summer of 1953, the Southern abolished 39 and 40, and the all-coach and mail trains 135 and 136. I had planned to ride 136 from Atlanta to Charlotte in August, but had to ride #36--sleeping stretched out on the seat next to the men's room. (Two years before, I rode #136, sleeping across two of the non-reclining seats because my brother, 15 1/2 months older than I, claimed that end seat as soon as we boarded).

That trip in 1953, from Baton Rouge to Charlotte (MP-SOU), was my last trip on a pass.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 09, 2019 5:21 AM

When 40 was abolished, sleepers were added to the Southerner?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 09, 2019 8:53 AM

When the New Yorker was inaugurated, 39 was just a nameless Washington-Atlanta train carrying sleepers for Durham and Winston-Salem, and didn't carry the New Yorker's sleepers southbound.  Southern moved cars around among its trains quite a bit.  It looks like 39 got upgraded to full New Yorker status for at least a while before 39 and 40 were dropped in the late 1950s.

The New Yorker and the Southerner shared PRR 148 between Washington and New York.

 

A railroad noted for long trains and large steam locomotives bought Diesel locomotives in the early 1950s.  Only one of its diesels, a GE 44-tonner, actually got its number painted on the side of the locomotive, all of the others only got numbers in the indicators on the ends of the locomotives.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:44 PM

Virginian?

I remember someone pointing out that the NS heritage unit's scheme is not 100% authentic due to the cab numbers.  IMO a small compromise to meet modern regulations.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 10, 2019 1:51 PM

Very Good!  VGN's "Squarehead" electrics had their numbers on the sides.  The EL-2B's had the numbers in an indicator above the headlight and along the frame rail. The EL-C rectifiers also had end number indicators, and nothing on the cab side. The 40 baby and 25 full-size FM Trainmasters only had the numbers in the glass.  44-ton #6, bought used and sold before the N&W merger, was used as the Suffolk switcher. The cab number was added later, as it originally had only the small indicators on teh hood corners.

N&W painted numbers on the cab sides, 100 + the original VGN number.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 11, 2019 12:05 PM

VGN did not have baby Train Masters, only C&NW, MILW and TVA had them.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 12, 2019 7:50 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

VGN did not have baby Train Masters, only C&NW, MILW and TVA had them.

 

True enough.  Virginian's were H16-44's, not H16-66's.  VGN's original design was to assign the smaller units to the relatively flat east end, with the TM's in the mountainous west end. VGN's 25 train masters made up almost a quarter of the domestic production of 105.  The 40 H16-44's made up the largest fleet of that model. VGN never had more than 38 in service at once, since 23 and 28 were wrecked in 1957 and replaced by 48 and 49.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, January 12, 2019 10:34 AM

Ok, time for another question.  The original Locotrol I remote control receiving equipment took up too much space to fit in most locomotives, and was normally housed in a separate car.  One railway constructed its first receiver cars by rebuilding some other cars which were originally specially built to carry a very high-value cargo.  Unfortunately these cars were not ideal for their new role, and were all retired within 7 years.

What service were these cars originally built for, and why didn't they last in their new role?

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, January 16, 2019 11:46 PM

Should I give a hint?

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:23 AM

yes

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 17, 2019 6:44 AM

The first six Locotrol cars were former express boxcars originally used in passenger trains.  Their underframes didn't hold up very well.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:42 AM

Yes, although I was thinking of something more valuble than normal express freight, for which the car interior was lined with smooth wood panelling.

I also probably should have asked to name the railroad as well, but to get this far you must know. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 17, 2019 8:54 AM

Canadian Pacific - At least one of the cars (C-4465 or ROBOT-1) was painted in maroon and gray with the script logo.  The cars were originally built to handle silk shipments.  In addition to "soft" underframes they weren't ballasted well and one of them was derailed by slack action.  The second batch of Robot cars were built from FM and Alco/MLW boosters.  Later cars were rebuilt from more or less standard 50 foot boxcars.

There's a bunch of info on the Trains forum (Home >> Trains Magazine >>Locomotives >> Distributive Power ) including links to photos.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, January 17, 2019 9:02 AM

That's everything.  Kinda weird to think of remotely-controlled locomotives on the Classic forum, but since CP built its first robot cars in 1967 I figured this just made the 50 year-old cut. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 17, 2019 1:09 PM

The car is really interesting.  May have been built as a wooden car and steel sheathed, or might have started out all steel (except for the lining).  After its career in silk service, it was used as an express boxcar, since it already had passenger-service trucks and steam and signal lines.

https://www.canadahistory.ca/explore/transportation/canada-silk-road

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, January 17, 2019 2:19 PM

CP Rail 

Robot cars to control mid-train units. 

5 converted from 45 foot silk express cars. 11 from B units. 1 from CLC RS. 
Angus Shops prepared car bodies after prime mover removed, some for RS-10's. 
Locotrol equipment was installed by Ogden Shops.. 
Later cars built from box cars. 

No. 1 engine 1414 westbound passing Westmount Tower. October 10, 1963 Peter Cox 
Note the former silk car in Tuscan red on headend carrying storage mail for Calgary.

AN23 (ex 4408) later scrapped when conversion program changed to box cars. 
AN21 (ex 4463) became 1005 here with temporary numbers sit in a line at Angus waiting conversion. 

1010 Robot 10 ex 4472 9/1972 Spuzzum, BC 4/19/1980 

1015 Robot-15 ex 4458 1/1973 Port Coquitlam 6/14/1976 

Robot-16 converted 9/1972 from CLC-FM B unit 4472 one of 10 CLC B units converted. 

Robot 20 ex Robot 1020 a.k.a. 1020. Coquitlam 7/24/1976 

Robot car 1025 rebuilt Angus 6/1974 using 50 foot box car. One of 16 cars 1017-1032. 
Coquitlam 12/26/1987

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 18, 2019 6:35 AM

On to the next subject...

This largely suburban electric service, once handled by steam locomotives, was abandoned just before World War II.  Some of its trackage continued in service for almost two more decades as line extensions for a former competitor.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 7:47 AM

The company was created at the time the lines were electrified, but the cars wore the name of the parent system along with a distinctive color most of their service lives.  Some of the cars were transferred to a related interurban property and lasted another two decades in service.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 25, 2019 4:55 AM

Possibly the local streetcar lines of Lehigh Valley Transit

or

The local Portland, Oregon lines and the Oregon Electric interurban system

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