Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:04 PM

I have my fingers crossed that this is not another instantiation of the perennial Waycross question that has come up several times in different forms in these quizzes...

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:32 PM

Overmod

I have my fingers crossed that this is not another instantiation of the perennial Waycross question that has come up several times in different forms in these quizzes...

 

You are right; there was absolutely no connection with Waycross when the nine mile line was constructed; indeed, I do not think there was any railroad near what is now Waycross at the time of the construction.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 10:10 AM

The railroads were in Virginia.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 06, 2018 7:26 AM

Sounds like the Virginia Central and the Orange and Alexandria - C&O and Southern in the classic era.  The O&A got trackage rights on the Virginia Central between Gordonsville and Charlottesville to connect to its own line to Lynchburg, later bought the segment and granted Virginia Central successor C&O access to Alexandria VA/Washington DC.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, December 06, 2018 7:58 AM

Yes. Apparently, this is a truly obscure bit of railroad history. Do you know any other instance in which a railroad built track to gain entrance via trackage rights to a city--and then built its own track to that city and sold its connecting track to the other road?

I do not know if the Buckingham Branch uses that track; could it be that the Cardinal is the only traffic on it? Way back when, the C&O not only had three passenger trains, but also three freights that used it to gain access to the Washington area.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 06, 2018 10:27 AM

Buckingham Branch shows Orange (actual connecting spot - Gordonsville is a short distance away) as a "Station" and not an "Interchange", so...  I guess it depends on whether there are any customers between Gordonsville and Orange (Google Maps shows pulpwood racks and grain hoppers on the BB at or near  Orange).  I rode the Crescent through there last Friday but it was already dark, so I didn't really see anything at Gordonsville.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, December 06, 2018 11:13 AM

You rode the Crescent through Gordonsville?  It was detoured through there?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, December 09, 2018 12:28 PM

Deggesty

You rode the Crescent through Gordonsville?  It was detoured through there?

 

No, we took the ex-SR line between Orange and Charlottesville. All in the dark, so I missed the junction at Orange.

Finally back in after three days of the web site not recognising me.

In the classic era there were two Chicago-Hot Springs Ark.  Pullman lines which each took 16-17 hours with one railroad change.  Give both routes and the railroads involved.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, December 09, 2018 12:56 PM

Glad you're back... perhaps others can post again as the Forums were at a crawl. 

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, December 09, 2018 1:06 PM

Received this from Jones.. not sure how he knows this or if it's just speculation .

It "seems" that the forum is undergoing a major update, 
including a new layout, new scheme, functional tags system and 
some interesting features which would encourage people to post. 
 

We will see...  

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, December 10, 2018 3:29 PM

rcdrye

 

 
Deggesty

You rode the Crescent through Gordonsville?  It was detoured through there?

 

 

 

No, we took the ex-SR line between Orange and Charlottesville. All in the dark, so I missed the junction at Orange.

 

Finally back in after three days of the web site not recognising me.

In the classic era there were two Chicago-Hot Springs Ark.  Pullman lines which each took 16-17 hours with one railroad change.  Give both routes and the railroads involved.

 

The two routes were quite different--one went through Missoouri into Arkansas, and the other went south through Kentucky into Tennessee and then west.

In 1943. the Alton took a 10-1-2 down to St. Louis on the Abrahma Lincoln, and the MP carried the car on the Southerner to Little Rock and then on a local to Hot Springs. Returning, the local took the car to Little Rock and delivered it to the Southerner, which took it to St. Louis, and the Alton carried it overnight to Chicago on the Midnight Special

In the same year, the IC's Louisiane carried a 10 section 2 compartment car to Memphis, and and the Rock Island carried it to Hot Springs on #45. Returning, it traveled on #50 to Memphis, and the Louisiane took it on to Chicago.

The IC-RI service did not exist in 1953; the RI then had only freight service into Hot Springs. The GM&O/MP service did still exist in 1953, with a 10-6 car.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, December 10, 2018 6:59 PM

I thought about adding this clue: the state wherein the construction took place was the birth state of more presidents than any other state was, even stating that two presidents were born in the same county.

This may be a bit easier than the last one I propounded.

The New Haven, for many years, operated an all first class train over night between Boston and New York City. Except for a few months, it was possible to board, undress, and sleep in a berth. However, during those few months passengers slept in seats in parlor cars. Why?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 7:02 AM

I'm not sure of the exact period, but there was a time when Pullmans were banned from runs of less than 250 miles during WW II.  At 229.1 miles, the Owl didn't make the cut.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 8:08 AM

rcdrye

I'm not sure of the exact period, but there was a time when Pullmans were banned from runs of less than 250 miles during WW II.  At 229.1 miles, the Owl didn't make the cut.

 

You have the right idea. In 1945, when troops were being brought home, Pullman needed many more cars to transport them than were needed during the fighting, so the ODT issued an order forbidding overnight runs of less than 400 or 450 miles (I do not remember just which; my copy of the Guide which listed the order is buried and it takes too much effort for me to dig it out). The New Haven had enough parlor cars so it was able to provide their comfort in the place of real sleeping comfort. Other roads' overnight comfort simply was not available. The Alton even discontinued the Midnight Special until in November, at which time it was restored with coaches only. The Chicago-Hot Springs car still ran (on another train).

Going back to presidents, George Washington and James Monroe wer both born in Westmoreland County, which is on the Potomac (which is about seven miles wide there). However, the Father of our Country did not grow up on the Potomac; when he was quite young, the family moved to the other side of the Northern Neck,  and he grew up on the Rappahannock.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 13, 2018 7:16 AM

I think I'd almost rather sleep in a coach seat than a parlor chair...

This railroad named its hotshot freight service after a dog.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, December 13, 2018 10:10 AM

The railroad is the Rutland, the train is the "Whippet".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 13, 2018 11:55 AM

They even decorated a 2-8-0 with fins.  Rutland 28, with Stephenson valve gear.

Rutland Whippet

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 1:56 AM

Waiting for CSS's new question

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 23, 2018 4:12 AM

Still waiting

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, December 30, 2018 12:56 PM

To keep it moving, I'll post another...

Each night in 1948, two trains left San Antonio Texas carrying Pullmans bound for Washington DC and New York.  The four New York cars were each switched once, with four routings resulting.  Of the four Washington cars, three were each swiched once, the fourth was switched three times.

Routes used to New York and Washington, please!

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:42 PM

I do not have easy access to any 1948 Guide, so a part of my answer is speculation.

Both the Texas Eagle (MP/T&P/MP) and Texas Special (MKT/SLSF) carried through cars to New York City and Washington. In St. Louis, all the cars were switched to trains for the East Coast. The B&O carried cars to Washington; the NYC carried cars to New York City, and the PRR carried cars to both cities. I would say that the PRR switched its Washington cars in Harrisburg, making a second switch for two cars; I will not hazard to say where the third swirch was made..

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 31, 2018 6:54 AM

The PRR car to Wshington could technically be said to be switched three times:

Once in St. Louis to the eastbound Penn Texas

Once in Harrisburg, possibly to the eastbound (southbound) Washington section of the General or the Admiral.

And finally in Baltimore with a reverse in direction, and steam or diesel on one end replaced by a GG1 at the other.  

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, December 31, 2018 7:23 AM

You have most of it.  The MP New York cars were carried in the PRR's Sunshine Special (predecessor to the Penn Texas, after a brief interval as the Texas Eagle).  The MKT/SLSF New York cars were handed off to the Admiral, cars from both carriers also being handled on NYC's Southwest Limited.  The Washington cars are more interesting, with MP handing off one car each to the PRR and the B&O.  The Texas Special handed one car to the PRR (MP and MKT/Frisco cars all handled in the Admiral).  One of the MKT/Frisco cars headed to Washington on neither the PRR nor the B&O.  Care to guess the routing?

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, December 31, 2018 8:12 AM

NYC St Louis to Cincinnati and then C&O to Washington? But thtat would involve switching in Indianapolis and Cincinnati..

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, December 31, 2018 10:32 AM

Deggesty

NYC St Louis to Cincinnati and then C&O to Washington? But thtat would involve switching in Indianapolis and Cincinnati..

 

Which is exactly what happened, the Southwest Limited dropped the car in Indianapolis for an unnamed Chicago-Cincinnati train to carry to Cincinnati, where it was turned over to C&O's F.F.V. for the rest of the trip.  I actually cheated a little on the New York cars, because one of the westbound cars got switched from train 1 (south Texas) to train 21 (west Texas) in Little Rock.  It's hard to believe how many options travellers had for Pullman travel at the time.  In addition to the San Antonio cars, the MP trains carried New York Pullmans from Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, El Paso and Mexico City.  The Texas Special added Dallas and Fort Worth Pullmans as well.  PRR's Sunshine Special and American carried most of them, but New York Central's Southwest Limited ran as two trains, with one of them dedicated to southwest/Mexico traffic.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, December 31, 2018 11:32 AM

Sunshine Special/Texas Eagle routing to South Texas was different from most other routings in that the trains originated and terminated on the same road--but were handled by another road part of the way.

What other routing followed the same pattern (Road A-Road B-Road A)? All the trains using the routing had through cars delivered by other roads, but the trains themselves were A-B-A. One engine change was not at the junction point but was 7.4 miles from the railroad junction point; give this point and a possible reason for its being the change point.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 2:49 AM

Southern - Norfolk and Western - Southern

First junction Monroe, but the engine change at Lynchburg - N&W Ststion.  (Sou. had its own station on the main line to Atlanta.)   Second junction Bristol.   The Tennesean to Memphis, Pelican to New Orleans.  Others.  Through cars from New York on PRR to Washington.  Through cars to Shreveport via KCS.

Monroe was not a regular crew-change point with roundhouse for the Southern, and Lynchburg was for both railroads.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 7:44 AM

daveklepper
Through cars to Shreveport via KCS.

The Shreveport cars were handled from Meridian Miss on Illinois Central's Vicksburg Shreveport and Pacific.  KCS didn't get the line until the 1990s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 8:06 AM

Of course you are right.  I had the right track but the wrong company on that, forgetting some history.   Do you wish fo ask the next question? 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 8:14 AM

Very good, Dave. But the engine change was at Monroe, not Lynchburg. I have an idea why. A Trains article on the N&W's locomotives in 1954 or 1955 described the runs of the J's, and showed that they ran to and from Monroe on the Southern trains.

Incidentally, from SOU public timetables in the twenties, the trains operated  through the Kemper St. station, and not the Union Station in Lynchburg.

Johnny

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