Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, November 9, 2018 8:16 AM

Thcn if i was close with CTT, it must be the SN.  Possibly you can post a map?  I was only familiar wih the main line through Pittsburg, Sacramento, the Ramon car ferry, and north to Chico, where there was an extension to an airforce base during WWII and where the last passenger service, Birneys, 5-cent fare, operated.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 9, 2018 11:23 AM

daveklepper
Possibly you can post a map?

Link to map was in previous post.

https://localwiki.org/oakland/Sacramento_Northern_Railway/_files/route%20map.jpg

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 10, 2018 11:03 AM

OK, aplogies.  I see the little squiggles at the lower left-hand corner indicating something did not make it to the screen because of the narrow-band nature of the Yeshiva's server (and sometimes I get the same lack of server cooperation my own pictures posted), so I'll pull up the URL when, hopefully, I'll have a chance at the HU Library tomorrow, with their wideband server.

Or it might not be the narrow-band effect but a block.  The latter would be true for U-Tube.  Again, the HU Library would come to the rescue.

Meanwhile:

A particular well-known rather pretty small city has or had during the classic era two railroad stations, one used by one of two railroads, and the other by both, where they crossed with one interchange track  Yet, in at least two respects, the station used by one was more important.  Why and which city, and which railroads.  Please be as thorough as you can in the he description, even describing the passenger trains operated if you know them.  And what features distinguish the city, including nearby historic landmarks.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 7:49 AM

Home to an important university, still served by Amtrak (with sleeping cars) on both railroad lines, still different owners, but both affected by mergers.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 11:57 AM

Way back when, some of the C&O's trains stopped at the Southern's Charlottesville, and all stopped at the C&O's station.  The Southern operated more than twice as many trains through Charlottesville than the C&O did.

Now, both the Crescent and the Cardinal use the station that is there, just northeast of the crossing of the NS and the CSX (each line has its own door in the station). There are two trains a day, each way, on the NS, and one train each way three days a week on the Buckingham Branch, which operates on the CSX here.

The University of Virginia is in Charlettesville.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 12:24 PM

Deggesty
The University of Virginia is in Charlottesville.

And Monticello is nearby.

I spent happy years on High Street in Charlottesville, and very, very nearly wound up living in Keswick, and it was pretty clear to me from the outset that C'ville was the city in question.  But since I knew none of the historical operating detail I left it for better heads to answer in detail.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:50 PM

I had looked at the Amtrak map, trying to see what place it could be--and did not look at the Virginia map until this morning--and then I knew.

My first time in Charlottesville was in July of 1959; I took the Peach Queen down tp Charlotte. While waiting, I saw a mother possum with her young walking near the station. I had hoped to see a C&O train go by on the south side, but none came by to gratify my desire.

Once, I changed from the wb George to the sb Southerner, and once I changed from the nb Southerner to the wb George--and had to change stations both times. I took advantage of my time there the second time to walk out to Monticello and back, stopping at the Henry family's inn on the way back.

Now: what railroad, which ran between the end points indicated in its name,  (we'll call it #1) built a short line from A to B, where it connected with #2, and then, with trackage rights, gained access to C. In later years #1 built its own line to C--and sold that short line to #2, which used it to gain access to D, using trackage rights on #1?

Name #1, #2, A, B, C, and D.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 1:53 PM

Oh, yes, Amtrak also operates a Boston-Roanoke train, with coach and business accommodations, through here

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 7:16 PM

daveklepper

Was not aware that Sacramento Northern had any branch lines, but maybe you just mean further north, so possibly Oregon Electric.

 

The SN had bunches of branch lines. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 10:32 PM

Found that out, and Johnny Dig was first on the mark with Charlottesville, and his question is a good one.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 7:21 AM

To fill it out:

The Northern Electric (later Sacramento Northern) owned the isolated Vallejo and Northern line west of Sacramento. After the Western Pacific bought and merged the San Francisco-Sacramento (former Oakland Antioch & Eastern) and the Sacramento Northern into the new, larger Sacramento Northern the SN built the line from Creede to Vacaville Junction, known as the Creede branch, opened in 1929.  The line was built to SF-S standards with 1200-1500 volt overhead (the first SN line raised to 1500v).  The former V&N was always 600V, never third rail like the former NE.  The new line never offered passenger service.  The eastern end was relocated from Creede to Dozier in the late 1930s as the result of a flood control project.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:43 AM

Thanks for the details.  Regarding Johnny's question, I think the railroads involved are the Louisville and Nashville and the Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis, but someone else can win the prize with the details.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 10:42 AM

No, Dave, you are in the wrong area. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 11:14 AM

Just guessing, but Bangor and Aroostick and Maine Central?

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 11:51 AM

Now you are in the opposite direction.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 11:57 AM

At the time of the construction #2 had the name of a state in its name.

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Posted by SisterA on Saturday, November 17, 2018 2:23 PM

 

I'm sorry if this looks like a reply to the last post, it's really a new question on this thread by an absolute newbie (me).  I want to see if a certain train route/connection was possible within a given time frame in the 1930's and I have the correct Union Pacific time table.  I have no idea how to read this thing, however.  I also don't know if UP was the only train going to Ketchum ID in the 30's... but it looks like it? Anyway, I just am staring at this old time table of numbers and times and locations with no idea what it all means. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 19, 2018 8:02 AM

Both roads were built with a five foot gauge.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 19, 2018 1:55 PM

SisterA

 

I'm sorry if this looks like a reply to the last post, it's really a new question on this thread by an absolute newbie (me).  I want to see if a certain train route/connection was possible within a given time frame in the 1930's and I have the correct Union Pacific time table.  I have no idea how to read this thing, however.  I also don't know if UP was the only train going to Ketchum ID in the 30's... but it looks like it? Anyway, I just am staring at this old time table of numbers and times and locations with no idea what it all means. 

 

SisterA, welcome to the world of Classic Trains online.

According to the January, 1930, issue of the Oficial Guide, the UP had a motor-powered train that ran from Shoshone (on the main line to Portland, Oregon) to Ketchum, which was the end of the line, and was served by no other railroad. In 1930, fall sheep shipping was the major industry. In 1936, the Union Pacific began developing Sun Valley as a resort town, and began operating through winter service for people who  enjoyed winter sports such as skiing..

The numbers, from left to right, indicate train time in one direction, miles from the origin (in this case, Shoshone), and train time in the other direction. Bold-faced time numbers are p.m. times. 

I hope the above help in answering your questions.

Incidentally, you could have created a new thread with your question; this thread is an on-going quiz that sometimes has easy answers and sometimes has more difficult answers--such as the one I last proposed.

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Posted by SisterA on Monday, November 19, 2018 2:12 PM

Deggesty

Thank you, it's an honor to be on this blog... you guys are so knowledgable.  Let me see if I can apply what you just told me to the timetable I have... and if it gets too complicated, I'll start a new thread if I am allowed to do sl?  What I am trying to work out is a route within a specific time frame... how would I know what time Union Pacific trains arrive in Ketchum and how many trains arrived there each day or week in Spring of 1939... that is the timetable that I have.

 

 
SisterA

 

I'm sorry if this looks like a reply to the last post, it's really a new question on this thread by an absolute newbie (me).  I want to see if a certain train route/connection was possible within a given time frame in the 1930's and I have the correct Union Pacific time table.  I have no idea how to read this thing, however.  I also don't know if UP was the only train going to Ketchum ID in the 30's... but it looks like it? Anyway, I just am staring at this old time table of numbers and times and locations with no idea what it all means. 

 

 

 

SisterA, welcome to the world of Classic Trains online.

 

According to the January, 1930, issue of the Oficial Guide, the UP had a motor-powered train that ran from Shoshone (on the main line to Portland, Oregon) to Ketchum, which was the end of the line, and was served by no other railroad. In 1930, fall sheep shipping was the major industry. In 1936, the Union Pacific began developing Sun Valley as a resort town, and began operating through winter service for people who  enjoyed winter sports such as skiing..

The numbers, from left to right, indicate train time in one direction, miles from the origin (in this case, Shoshone), and train time in the other direction. Bold-faced time numbers are p.m. times. 

I hope the above help in answering your questions.

Incidentally, you could have created a new thread with your question; this thread is an on-going quiz that sometimes has easy answers and sometimes has more difficult answers--such as the one I last proposed.

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 19, 2018 4:02 PM

SisterA, I should have been a little more specific when I suggested that you create a new thread--at the top, when you log on to the forum, you will see an invitation to "Create a New Discussion  Topic." Click on that--and away you can go!

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 11:10 AM

The railroad that built the connecting track was, basically, a north-south road; the other railroad was an east-west road.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:46 AM

Coud be the Gulf and Mobile and the Mobile and Ohio, later merged?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 9:07 AM

After AT&SF built its Atlantic & Pacific line to "The Needles" AT&SF and SP swapped sections giving AT&SF its own line from Needles to a Barstow connection with its Southern California Railway.  SP in turn got AT&SF's line to Nogales and Guaymas, Mexico, the base for SP's Sud Pacific de Mexico.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 10:43 AM

Dave, you are too far South.

rcd, these were built to five foot gauge? 

This was  a nine mile stretch of track.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 23, 2018 8:12 AM

Road #2 still owns (after various mergers) the track it owned at the time of the construction, but does not, itself, operate trains on that section of track.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, November 23, 2018 10:04 AM

Forgot the five foot gauge piece of the question...

This sounds like the section between Austell and Atlanta the involved the Alabama Great Southern and the Cincinnati Southern.  The Cincinnati Southern would still own the line but not operate any trains on it, being operated by NS under lease as the Cincinnati New Orleans & Texas Pacific.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, November 23, 2018 11:32 AM

No, you are too far south. The Cincinnati Southern runs no farther south than Chattanooga. The East Tennessee Virginia and Georgia built down to Atlanta through Austell.

The first arrangement, with trackage rights, from A to C, using roads #1 and #2 is about 29 miles--and road #1's own track is about 28 miles.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:17 PM

Deggesty

No, you are too far south. The Cincinnati Southern runs no farther south than Chattanooga. The East Tennessee Virginia and Georgia built down to Atlanta through Austell.

The first arrangement, with trackage rights, from A to C, using roads #1 and #2 is about 29 miles--and road #1's own track is about 28 miles.

 

Also, the AGS presence in Georgia was in the NW corner of the state. It was the Georgia Pacific which built from Austell to Birmingham, and on to Greenville, Mississippi.

The east-west road had "Central" in its name; in time, its name was changed to indicate its eastern and western ends. 

The north-south road, in time, became part of a system that was named for two other cities in the same state, which, in time became part of road named for a region.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 29, 2018 2:32 PM

The two railroads, as originally built, were in one of the original states. As one of them grew, through construction and consolidation with other roads, it covered a large region, and boasted of its service.

Johnny

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