Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:34 PM

rcdrye-- who were the 2 competitors who used Maroon in the Diesel era? Rock Island? Soo didn't go to Omaha did they? 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:43 PM

Rock Island and Chicago Great Western - CGW's trains were the "Twin Cities Limited" and "Nebraska Limited".  Rock Island was the first to drop through service (you could still change in Des Moines).

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 31, 2018 4:49 PM

CGW of course! Duh. I'm getting old. Thanks.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, August 06, 2018 3:16 AM

Had a nice steam loco question but I can't find the darn picture which I need to ask the question. It is late, I have had a very trying 48 hours despite Friday being a banner day and everything went right, but since then it has been awful. So against my normal way of thinking I'm going to ask a Diesel question ( good grief, this hurts).

CPR largest Diesel order was for 200 GP9's, which stood as its largest order until the SD40's came along. The very very last one built #8839 was just a bit different in spec's from all the others and the only one built that way out of the 200. What was the difference.

8839 last of 200 GP9's... unique 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 06, 2018 6:32 AM

CPR 8839 was really sort of a GP18, with a 567D engine.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 06, 2018 9:29 AM

Talking about not thinking "out of the box," I simply forgot that lomotives are painted too, and kept racking my brain about passenger equipment painted maroon!    How dumb!

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, August 06, 2018 3:59 PM

You have company with that thought Dave, I did the exact same thing.

rcdrye--- Right you are. Instead of a 567C 1750hp it was buit with a 567D and rated at 1800hp.

Not only that but it is still in service today!

NPR 1695 first day traffic received. November 1, 2017

Maybe this should have been the question instead. (What happened to it?)

Damn Mikado killers. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 12:34 AM

There's something familiar about that logo...

The original Alberta Midland Railway was a subsiduary that Canadian Northern used to construct branchlines in central Alberta during the early 1900s:

http://railways.library.ualberta.ca/Chapters-8-4/

S.I. Smith (second from the right in the photo) is a key member of the Canadian Northern Society, which does historical outreach & education and has restored several stations.  He chose the AMRT's name and logo. 

http://canadiannorthern.ca/

http://albertamidlandrail.com/

They have also since aquired a ex-CP SD40-2 to help accomodate their growing business.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, August 07, 2018 6:56 AM

EMD/GMD's unwillingness to do much more than tweak the basic GP7/GP9 formula is pretty interesting.  It took UP's turbo program and GE's agressive entry with the U25B to push EMD over the edge.

This railroad re-engined mainline freight locomotives of one brand with new engine from a second manufacturer, and then turned around and re-used the surplus engines in switchers made by the second manufacturer.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 10, 2018 10:21 AM

The railroad is the Rock Island.  It repowered some FA1/FB1's with 567 engines and used the 244 engines in some NW1's, which wound up looking like maroon piano crates.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, August 10, 2018 6:44 PM

The FA1's didn't look too bad (not like, say the DL109 621 "Christine") - Silvis shops kept the original Alco-GE cooling system.  The NW1s needed space for new engine mounts and the turbo on the 244 engines so the hood got boxed out a lot.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 7:21 PM

Paul (CSSHEGEWICH), you are up!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, August 16, 2018 10:06 AM

Follow-up on the aforementioned Rock Island FA1's.  A few years after they were re-powered, some of the FA's suffered another modification.  What was the modification and why was it made?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 17, 2018 3:10 AM

MU connections on the A-end?   To allow use as a trailing unit in freght service?

Or equipped for push-pull suburban service?

And modified to provide head-end hotel power for suburban service? 

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, August 17, 2018 6:14 AM

Many if not all of Rock Island's repowered FA1s got Blomberg (EMD) trucks.  As can be seen by the photo of RI 133, at least some of them did get nose MU.

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0701/ri133.jpg

Photo of RI 133 shows a repowered unit with original trucks and no nose MU.  A 244-powered FA1 would have a single fat stack instead of the two small stacks from the 567 engine.

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/516587/

Incidentally, the designation "FA1" does not appear to have been applied by ALCO/GE until later.  Soo Line and other railroads listed them as "Road Freight", while listing contemporary EMDs as F3 and F7.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 17, 2018 10:04 AM

You're halfway there.  Why were they re-trucked?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, August 18, 2018 9:45 AM

I'm pretty sure the replacement trucks came off retired FTs.  Did the FA1's trucks end up under the Rock's Alco C415s?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, August 18, 2018 10:10 AM

The FA1 trucks wound up under the FT's since they were trade-in fodder for Rock Island's U25B's and the trucks and 752 traction motors could be used on them.

Rcdrye, your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, August 19, 2018 7:34 AM

In the mid-to-late 1960s, three railroads powered passenger trains out of Chicago with second-generation Alco or GE Power.  Name the railroads (and at least one train for each) and the models used.  Second-generation Alco is 251-engined, not necessarily Century series.

I wonder if Rock Island's U25Bs had the same motor and truck problems Soo Line's GP30s (and one GP35)  did. Earlier high-horsepower GE motor applications like E44s and F-M Erie-builts used 746 motors.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, August 20, 2018 10:12 AM

Monon, C420's on the "Thoroughbred".

ATSF, U28CG's on the "Texas Chief", U30CG's on the "Texas Chief" and the "Grand Canyon".

NKP, RS36's on the "City of Chicago/City of Cleveland".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 20, 2018 10:33 AM

Got'em all.  AT&SF's order of the U30CGs was kind of surprising, given how much the crews disliked the U28CGs.  All UxxCG passenger operation came to an end in 1969, after a U30CG dumped itself and the Grand Canyon onto the Illinois prairie.  Both GE types were tried unsuccessfully on the Super C and couldn't make the schedule.  They ended up in the freight pool, and were traded to GE as soon as their trust certificates expired.  NKP's and Monon units were OK, given the easier schedules and shorter trains.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, August 28, 2018 7:25 AM

Your turn, Paul!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, August 28, 2018 10:11 AM

My apologies for the delay.  What was the legal connection between the Chicago & Western Indiana RR and the Belt Railway of Chicago besides the overlapping ownership?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, September 02, 2018 5:12 PM

C&WI actually created the Belt Railway.  It started as the Belt Division of the C&WI, and remained under C&WI control for some time.  Eventually, around 1912, the Belt Railway was sold to 12 owner railroads (5 of which were also C&WI's owners). The number of owners has been substantially reduced through mergers over the years, and now stands at 6.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 10:11 AM

Close enough.  After BRC was sold to its 12 owners, the right-of-way was leased by CWI to the BRC for a 50-year term.  BRC purchased its line in 1962 when the lease ran out.

Rcdrye, your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 4:29 PM

BRC has re-invented itself a couple of times in the last century or so, and remains a vital part of Chicago,

 

This railroad, which was part of a larger system, may have deserved to be called the smelliest railroad.  At one time the railroad and the source of the smell were part of the same organisation.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 6:55 PM

Was going to say the Wellsville, Addison and Galeton, The WAG, the Sole Leather Line, due to its numerous tanneries along its route that it served but I see it does not fit your criteria. 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, September 04, 2018 8:57 PM

rcdrye

Both the Nightingale an the North American changed direction en route (you can see the numbers on page 12 of the timetable).  By 1948 both were carrying through Pullmans to Los Angeles, with an 8-1-2 heavyweight on the Nightingale (201-2-201 and 202-1-202), and a lightweight 6-6-4 on the North American (203-10-203 and 204-9-204) which was a day train. Omaha Road had its own Webster Street station in Omaha.  Trains like the North American used C&NW's line south of Sioux City to Council Bluffs to get to Union Station so cars could be interchanged to Union Pacific's trains to the west, changing timetable direction twice in the process.  The Nightingale's through cars via the Gold Coast and Pony Express were discontinued first, but all through cars were gone by 1955, and Twin Cities-Omaha trains by the early 1960s. CStPM&O's unnamed train direct to Omaha ran as 209 and 210 all the way.

 

If I'm understanding correctly, the time table direction changed at Sioux City from westward to eastward when using CNW track.  I'm not so sure.  I have a 1959 CNW Nebraska Division employee time table, and a train going from Sioux City to Missouri Valley (where it connected to the Iowa Division) is westward by time table direction.  (This sets up trains going from California Jct to Missouri Valley, about 5 miles, going time table west while physically going east.)

Since it's a few years after the dates posted, it's possible they rearranged subdivisions and directions. Today's UP has the Blair Subdivision running from just east of Mo Valley to Fremont NE, one subdivision.  In 1959 it took parts of four subdivisions, with one scheduled freight in each direction changing numbers for the Cal Jct to Mo Valley portion of the forementioned Sioux City District.

FWIW, leaving Mo Valley going to Fremont you start out by going east to California Jct.  There you become a westbound using a portion of the North Yard District, Cal Jct to Blair.  You continue as a westbound on the Blair District to Arlington.  There you join the Norfolk District to Fremont.  (At Arlington railroaders can still see the roadbed that came up from Omaha.  Although it's fast disappearing in overgrown brush and trees.)  Needless to say, Mo Valley to Fremont wasn't as important then as it became in the 1970s and continues today.

Jeff    

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 6:45 AM

Miningman
Was going to say the Wellsville, Addison and Galeton, The WAG, the Sole Leather Line, due to its numerous tanneries along its route that it served but I see it does not fit your criteria.

The railroad was also involved in a complicated arrangement where it built two rapid transit branches.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 05, 2018 10:12 AM

I'm going to say Chicago Junction, later part of Chicago River & Indiana, which served the Union Stock Yards.  The rapid transit lines were the Stockyards branch and the Kenwood branch of the South Side Rapid Transit.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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