Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 6:52 AM

Today's Photo of the day (5/1/2018) shows that the B&OCT bridge was lowered at least as late as 1972.  I'm not sure when the last tracks were removed.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, May 03, 2018 8:32 AM

It appears that B&O/CSX kept a small yard with stored equipment on the east side of the river until 1991, mainly for tax purposes.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 05, 2018 6:23 PM

So... Overmod, you are up!

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, May 09, 2018 1:30 AM

The interesting thing I thought was the design engineer, Joseph Strauss, went onto bigger bridges. The biggest being the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. 

Chicago did a survey a few years back to see which bridges had historic significance. The links below are what I found in the St Charles Airline bridge. The site also has more bridges.

 

http://historicbridges.org/illinois/sbrr/original_haer-il-157.htm

http://historicbridges.org/bridges/browser/?bridgebrowser=illinois/sbrr/

 

Not sure if I got the links right  

 

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, May 11, 2018 11:31 PM

Well it's been a week so I thought perhaps an interim question while we are waiting.

So what is this?  New? Old? Where? What? Name of Builder?

https://i.imgur.com/S4hZUz3.jpg

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 12, 2018 6:50 AM

Miningman
New? Old? Where? What?

New - rebuild by Brookville Equipment of El Paso TX prewar PCC car 1506; Old: Delivered new to El Paso in 1937 by St.Louis Car Co.  Originally air-electric, probably all electric in the Brookville rebuild.  Used in El Paso and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico between 1937 and 1974, stored in El Paso since 1974. Where: at the Brookville plant.  Note the dual-gauge track on Brookville's turntable, standard and Pennsylvania gauge.

Brookville is one of the leaders in both new and rebuilt transit equipment, having delivered new "Liberty" streetcars to Dallas TX.

http://www.brookvillecorp.com/BROOKVILLE-Delivers-First-El-Paso-Streetcar.asp?news=news-streetcar.asp

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, May 12, 2018 9:53 AM

Wow, an absolute perfect answer. Excellent!

The next question goes to you. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, May 12, 2018 3:41 PM

I have to add to this that paint scheme is outstanding. It is reminiscent of the 50's. 

People think the 50's were dull and grey but they are sorely mistaken, cars, fashion, trains were all beautifully styled with outstanding colour.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 13, 2018 2:22 AM

All three paint schemes that were used over their years of operation in El Paso are being applied to the reguilt cars.  All three are colorful, but this is probably the classiest.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, May 13, 2018 1:04 PM

Some of the PCC schemes were very bright, even before Pittsburgh's PAT created the "Mod Desire" scheme on car 1730.

http://www.streetcarmike.com/patransit/pat_pcc1730_mountlebanonblvd_oct211973.jpg

 

So, another PCC question:  This city's entire fleet of PCCs was delivered with hand controls, though many cars were modifed for pedal control later for optional one man/two man operation.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 14, 2018 10:12 AM

I'm going to say that the fleet in question is Chicago Surface Lines/CTA.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, May 14, 2018 5:28 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

I'm going to say that the fleet in question is Chicago Surface Lines/CTA.

 

Yep, all 683 of 'em!  CSL was the only operator to specify two-man cars, which were also longer and wider than "standard" PCCs, and offset to the right for passing clearance.  Prewar and postwar models saw some conversion to one-man/two-man in the early 1950s, at which time the foot pedals were activated.  Prewar cars loaded from the front, postwar cars from the rear in two man service.  All but one of the prewar and one of the postwar Chicago PCCs were scrapped, though 570 of the 600 postwar cars gave up window sashes, door motors, trucks, motors and controls to CTA's 6201-6720 and 1-50 series rapid transit cars.  The last Chicago streetcar line, Wentworth Avenue (now next to the Dan Ryan Expressway) ran with two-man postwar PCCs.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, May 17, 2018 10:04 AM

I'll stick with Chicago PCC's, only rapid transit this time.  What feature distinguishes the first 200 CTA PCC rapid transit cars from the rest of the fleet?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 19, 2018 6:35 PM

The "Flat Door Sixes" 6001-6200 have flat doors recessed from the fishbelly curce of the carbody. They were built new by St Louis Car. There were also some variations in conductor controls and headlight within the series.  The remainder had new carbodies (also StLCC) with new curved doors matching the carbodies. They were equipped with window parts, door motors, propulsion equipment and some seat parts from CTA's postwar PCC streetcars.

The most remarkable features of the Flat Door Sixes were the footholds on each side of the car on the drawbar end (All of the 6000 series were "married pairs").  The conductor was originally expected to operate the train doors from that position, with one foot on each car.  The conductor's position was pretty quickly relocated to the inside of the car.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 21, 2018 10:03 AM

We have a winner here.  rcdrye, it's your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:03 PM

The Sunset Limited name continues in use, but for the last 47 years, it has belonged to Amtrak, not Southern Pacific.  The secondary SP name train not only ran under the same name longer than the Sunset Limited did for SP, but it's name was shared with another train on a different run.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:24 PM

rcdrye

The Sunset Limited name continues in use, but for the last 47 years, it has belonged to Amtrak, not Southern Pacific.  The secondary SP name train not only ran under the same name longer than the Sunset Limited did for SP, but it's name was shared with another train on a different run.

 

The Sunset Limited  (with and without the "Limited" status) operated under the SP flag for 77 years.  The only SP train names that I'm familiar with that were applied to two separate runs are the Owl (Oakland-Los Angeles; Dallas-Houston) which existed for 67 years and the Lark (Los Angeles-San Francisco; Dallas-San Antonio) which existed for 58 years.

Can we assume that the two names I mentioned are not what you are looking for and there is another name that would answer your question?

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 4:44 PM

One of them is right, and its name was shared by another SP name train.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:10 PM

rcdrye

One of them is right, and its name was shared by another SP name train.

 

Based on my previous submission, neither the Owl nor the Lark would qualify for your answer since the Sunset Limited name (in various forms) had an overall longer existence (77 years) than that of the other two.  Now, if you consider the Sunset Limited and Sunset as separate names, the former existed for 64 years (1894 to 1958), which means that the Owl would be the answer to your question (at 67 years, applied to Oakland-Los Angeles and Dallas-Houston runs).

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, May 24, 2018 2:17 PM

I was looking for the Owl.  SP also dropped the "Limited" for short periods of time so the SP guys rate the Owl as the longets continuously used name.  The T&NO Owl was shorter-lived, down to a coach-only overnight train by the early 1950s. It outlived the Hustler by a bit, ending on June 7, 1958 to close out H&TC/T&NO service between Dallas and Houston.

SP's Owl was the mail and express overnight train on the West Valley line.  It carried a sleeper right up to the end, one of SP's 9100 series 6sec 6rmt 4dbr cars.  It also carried an ex-Daylight artuclated coach.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Thursday, May 24, 2018 4:01 PM

During the Florida boom of the 1920's, Pullman car lines fanned out from Florida to different parts of the country. The longest (but short lived) car line of this type was operated from Jacksonville to Los Angeles via SAL, L&N and SP. There was another seasonal Jacksonville-western U.S. Pullman car line that existed through most of the 1920's and that car was handled on its western end by one railroad through most of this car lines life.  

Most, that is, except for one year.  

That year, the car was handled by another western railroad that was not known for handling Florida sleepers.  

What was that Pullman car line endpoints, who normally handled it on the western portion, and which railroad instead handled the car that one year (and what year this occurred)?  

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 26, 2018 10:54 AM

The only other Jacksonville -> far west Pullman lineI have found a reference for so far went from Jacksonville to West Yellowstone Montana via the Dixie Route to St. Louis, Wabash to Kansas City and UP west from there.  I could imagine an alternate to Gardiner Montana via Chicago and CB&Q/NP, via St Paul or Omaha.  USRA involvement in 1920?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, May 26, 2018 1:49 PM

rcdrye

The only other Jacksonville -> far west Pullman lineI have found a reference for so far went from Jacksonville to West Yellowstone Montana via the Dixie Route to St. Louis, Wabash to Kansas City and UP west from there.  I could imagine an alternate to Gardiner Montana via Chicago and CB&Q/NP, via St Paul or Omaha.  USRA involvement in 1920?

 

The Jacksonville-West Yellowstone Pullman you mention was operated only in the summer of 1925.  The car line I'm looking for ran for several summer seasons in the 1920's, after USRA control had ended.

The western point I'm looking for was not as far west as West Yellowstone.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 26, 2018 2:22 PM

In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham,  and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville.

Johnny

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, May 26, 2018 2:47 PM

Deggesty

In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham,  and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville.

 

Johnny, you're dancing with the answer.  You got the endpoints and the railroad that usually handled the sleeper from Denver.  The last piece that is needed is the other railroad that handled the sleeper to/from Denver for one year (and what year was that).

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 26, 2018 2:56 PM

ZephyrOverland

 

 
Deggesty

In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham,  and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville.

 

 

 

Johnny, you're dancing with the answer.  You got the endpoints and the railroad that usually handled the sleeper from Denver.  The last piece that is needed is the other railroad that handled the sleeper to/from Denver for one year (and what year was that).

 

I will guess that the UP carried the car between Denver and Kansas City for a year, but I have not the slightest idea as to what year it was. 

A Southern timetable from 1917 is my only source here, since my copy of Night Trains (which may have the answers) is several miles from where I am and it may be buried in a box with other railroad books.

Johnny

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, May 26, 2018 4:26 PM

Deggesty

 

 
ZephyrOverland

 

 
Deggesty

In 1917, there was a Denver-Jacksonville sleeper--Rock Island to Kansas City, Frisco to Birmingham,  and Southern Birmingham to Jacksonville.

 

  

Johnny, you're dancing with the answer.  You got the endpoints and the railroad that usually handled the sleeper from Denver.  The last piece that is needed is the other railroad that handled the sleeper to/from Denver for one year (and what year was that).

 

 

I will guess that the UP carried the car between Denver and Kansas City for a year, but I have not the slightest idea as to what year it was. 

 

A Southern timetable from 1917 is my only source here, since my copy of Night Trains (which may have the answers) is several miles from where I am and it may be buried in a box with other railroad books.

 

UP is not the answer, although they did occasionally handled through sleepers to southern points.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 26, 2018 4:42 PM

I would say that if it was just one road that carried the car between Denver and Kansas City, it would have been the Burlington.

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 26, 2018 6:05 PM

That leaves only the MoPac (Joint w/ D&RGW north of Pueblo).  UP's Yellowstone car apparently only ran in 1925.  Did MP carry the car that year?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, May 26, 2018 8:53 PM

Deggesty

I would say that if it was just one road that carried the car between Denver and Kansas City, it would have been the Burlington.

 

It wasn't the Burlington.

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