Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:18 AM

The convertable photos in question:

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:57 PM

daveklepper

New Yoek Ontario and Western "Mountanear"

 

The Mountaineer was styled by Otto Kuhler.  No A/C, just some nice paint and a little sheet metal on the observation end, plus a running board panel and a couple of nameplates onthe lone 4-8-2 set up for the train.  Updated in 1938, it ran through WWII, long enough that its last run was powered by an F3 or an FT set.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:41 PM

http://shorelinetrolley.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/4573-ext-small-160x160.jpg

Part of convertable 4573 from the website www.shorelinetrolley.org shows summer conditions, screen replacing window side panels.

Question:  End points of greatest distance possible without gaps over streetcar and inteurban lines.  Ferryboat crossings allowed.

Note that the NYO&W "streamlikner" cars were of wooden construction,

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:51 PM

View of 4573 in the shop:

IMAGE

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 09, 2017 7:16 PM

daveklepper
Question: End points of greatest distance possible without gaps over streetcar and inteurban lines. Ferryboat crossings allowed.

Utica NY - Elkhart Lake WI.   Around 900 rail miles.  Transfer in Chicago required change from CSS&SB to CSL to CRT/CNS&M.   600 volt gap appeared in 1918 (bridged by 1500V CSS&SB) with first rail gaps appearing in 1922 (Cleveland and Erie), with many more appearing even before the depression.

Waterville Maine - Purcellville VA around 675 rail miles with two ferry crossings.

Ferries at Kittery ME-Portsmouth NH and New York City-Newark

 

Adding Waterville ME to Little Falls NY to the Utica to Elkhart Lake distance gets about 1300 rail miles, but 17 miles of New York Central or West Shore steam train was required to bridge the gap.

These were not trips for the faint of heart.  I once figured a trip from Kennebunkport ME to City Hall in New York in 1911, and came up with around $8.50 in fares and 38 hours of "seat time".

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 1:06 AM

Good work.  Look forward to your question.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 10:25 AM

I'm not sure that you would have needed Chicago Surface Lines as part of the transfer in Chicago.  When North Shore ran to the South Side, a transfer at 63rd and Dorchester was possible.  In the Loop, Randolph Street Station was only one block from the "L" at Randolph and Wabash.  Besides, in the Loop area, most CSL routes did not extend east of Wabash.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:49 AM

Downtown - Loop area they did not.  12th Street- Roosevelt did and some lines further south of courss.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 11:59 AM

If one wanted to, one could exit the South Shore at Central Station and use the Roosevelt Road (Avenue? 12th Street?) streetcar to the North Shore's elevated station at that Avenue.  If one wanted to avoid the one-block walk and connect with a train that did not originate at the South Side.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 10, 2017 1:14 PM

Of course you're right. It's only a block or so from Randolph St (cough - "Millenium") to the (recently closed) Randolph and Wabash L station.  On the other hand, CSS&SB shared the street with streetcars in South Bend and East Chicago, so you could just transfer...

I think the most interesting thing was how short the window was to make some of the trips.  Even with that there are records of a chartered New York State Railways car going from Utica to the Kentucky Derby, with a side trip to Detroit on the way back.  All segments ran from hotel to hotel, so it took quite a few days.  That trip was only possible for about a six year window.

Most of the lines didn't really do interline, they just served the same towns, so connections were often casual at best.  To take a sixty mile trip from Concord NH to Boston MA, for example, took six cars running on the tracks of eight or nine companies, where it was a one-seat ride on the Boston and Maine.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 12, 2017 4:34 PM

A one-block walk in the middle of a Chicago winter can be miserable.  Departing the South Shore train and transferring to a Chicago Surface Lines streetcar at Central Station meant staying indoors at the time this trip was made, since the stop for the streetcar was then within the Central Station train shed.  Then one could board the North Shore train at the Roosevelt Avenue station without a one-block walk and have a better choice of seats possibly than at a Loop Station.  As late as 1948 this is the option I would choose, especially to get the railfan seat on an Electroliner.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 6:51 AM

Time to kick in a new question...  This midwestern interurban, which had steel cars bought new from three different builders, bought used steel cars in the late 1930s from a line that had recently discontinued service.  These cars were even older than the interurban's own, and had another issue that resulted in the decision to set them up as control trailers.  Name the buying and selling railroads.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 10:13 AM

The purchasing railroad was Chicago Aurora & Elgin, and the selling road was the Washington, Baltimore & Annapolis.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, October 18, 2017 12:00 PM

CA&E bought 5 full coaches and 3 combines from the estate of the abandoned Washington Baltimore and Annapolis.  The cars, built by Cincinnati in 1913, were WB&A's first all-steel cars.  CA&E modified the vestibules for "L" clearance, and removed the 1200 volt motors, retaining the MU controls so the cars could be used as control trailers.  CA&E usually used them in longer trains until the very last couple of years.  One of CA&E's longest trains, "The Cannonball", was only allowed 7 powered cars during the morning rush, so a "sinker" allowed an eight car train.  During WW II, the North Shore leased CA&E equipment on weekends to handle liberty traffic from Great Lakes and Fort Sheridan, which resulted in the cars getting as far as Milwaukee.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 19, 2017 10:22 AM

South Shore's earliest predecessor began operations as a street railway.  What was the name of this predecessor and what was the route of the streetcar operation?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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