Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 10:35 AM

It can best be described as a switching-terminal railroad, and in fact was progressively developed into that from its original mission as 'alternative access' to one other railroad ... which, to make this even easier, was an electric railroad, not a class I.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 13, 2020 9:51 AM

One last clue ... that you'll have to work for.  This was not anywhere near Michigan, but the author of Michigan J. Frog's famous song was also known for a famous song about our target city's fair.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, November 14, 2020 7:20 PM

I doubt this is the answer, but a line that sort of matches your description was the Pittsburgh Lisbon & Western.  The Pittsburgh Coal Company, owner of the Montour RR in Pennsylvania.  PCC built a private railroad from a transload at Smith's Ferry PA to Negly Ohio.  Connecting with the PL&W at Negly, coal was carried by the PL&W owned Youngstown & Southern, connecting with the Y&S at Signal Ohio.The Y&S carefully nurtured its ICC-exempt status as an interurban.  The PCC/PL&W/Y&S combo could offer Pennsylvania coal to Youngstown industries at 60 cents/ton, much lower than the competing steam roads could offer.  Eventually the Y&S lost its exemption, but by that time there was enough trafic for everybody. 

What I don't know for sure is wheter the PL&W/Y&S's steam locos matched your spec...  If not, you at least get a glimpse at the weird economics that affected interurbans.  Some of the Y&S is still around as the Youngstown & Southeastern.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 14, 2020 10:38 PM

Serving St. Louis ("Meet me  at the Fair") other than the Terminal Railiroad of Saint Louis, and a short line that runs ex-Rock Island tracks and dates from the Rock's abandonment, there exists the West Belt Raileay, but information on it is hard to obtain.  Seems like the one you are after, however.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:15 AM

The connecting electric line was the Illinois Terminal.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 15, 2020 12:21 PM

Not the Illinois Terminal.

 And not, so far, mentioned by you by name ... even though the whole first page of Google is filled with references to the railroad by name if you type that in.

Second to last hint: long after the time of the steam 'innovations', when the original operator decided to sell the railroad, the ICC blocked the 'natural' purchaser because they didn't want the railroad to go to a single owner.  It was later sold to two railroads who shared part of their color schemes to get the 'new' railroad's livery.  However, as things wound up, ownership would be as it is now whether or not the ICC had ruled.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 15, 2020 5:53 PM

The Davenport Rock Island & Northwestern?  before it was jointly owned by CB&Q and CMStP&P, it connected with, and later bought part of, the Clinton Davenport & Muscatine, an interurban in Davenport which carried interchange freight on its Muscatine division.  The natural purchaser would have ben the Rock Island, but the ICC disllowed it and the CB&Q and CMStP&P ended up with it, running a Milwaukee orange stripe and a Burlington red stripe on a black paint scheme. More recently successors BN and CP split the line in half, with BN geting the Illinois side and CP getting the Iowa side.  I still haven't found the steam that matches...

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:40 PM

Think color, and herald.  

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:44 PM

It's simpler than that.

The 'natural purchaser' had a very direct reason for owning the road, which it later realized by buying  the half-interest of one of the two ICC-approved purchasers four years or so later.

Oh yes, Jenks and Stagecoach together, not icterine.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:09 AM

The electric line in question is interesting for abandoning passenger service very early in the 20th Century to concentrate on a very different commodity from that which the question's primary railroad was involved with.  Its electric operation survived until after WWII, and it remained in operation with diesel power into the 1960s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:35 AM

Central California Traction

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 9:14 AM

You've forgotten about 3/4 of the clues so far.  CCT is thousands of miles west (by road).

The railroad in question should NOT be that hard to figure out.  Nor, knowing its founder and long-term owner, should be the technical innovation on its large 10-coupled steam power, accomplishing something the Pennsylvania did not succeed at doing.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 9:26 AM

The Union Railroad's 0-10-2's ?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:14 AM

rcdrye
The Union Railroad's 0-10-2's?

Comparable in size and in effective use, but most certainly not in the principal product they were built to carry.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:45 PM

Sorry, thought the question was answeresd, and that you were asking a new one.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:11 PM

No, I'm just expanding it a bit, because no one's getting the railroad, let alone the locomotive, let alone the bits that were ... unusual on it.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:38 AM

Was the interurban the Akron Canton & Youngstown?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:49 AM

daveklepper
Was the interurban the Akron Canton & Youngstown?

That line started as an interurban???

No.  The electric line in question was merged right at the start of the 20th Century with a competing one, after which (as far as I know) it was dedicated to freight service for a particular commodity not the one that was the primary interest of the line in this question.  That the line was heavy freight only is the likeliest explanation why the initial construction of our line only went to it.  

But it was not long before our line expanded to further connections with other railroads.  

The name of the electric line contains the name of a famous washer (although not directly related). 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:50 AM

daveklepper
Was the interurban the Akron Canton & Youngstown?

That line started as an interurban???

No.  The electric line in question was merged right at the start of the 20th Century with a competing one, after which (as far as I know) it was dedicated to freight service for a particular commodity not the one that was the primary interest of the line in this question.  (With passenger service being directed to the 'other' line)  That the line was principally if not completely heavy freight only is the likeliest explanation why the initial construction of our line only went to it.  

But it was not long before our line expanded to further connections with other railroads.  With the associated multiplicity of very similar names.  

The name of the electric line contains the name of a famous washer (although not directly related). 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 20, 2020 6:32 PM

The color clue does not appear to have produced enough enlightenment.  When the line was sold, both the color scheme and the herald design were a 'merger' of distinctive elements of the respective acquiring roads' locomotive schemes.

The particular blue and particular yellow already mentioned.  NOT the color of its current owner, either.

And his color/herald change is legitimately a subject for this quiz now, although any part of the final 'consolidation' isn't.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 23, 2020 5:13 PM

I give up - we'll make it a gimme.  The railroad is Alton & Southern.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 6:10 AM

So, please continue with the full description.  Locomotive, technology, interurban-history.   Please!

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 10:16 AM

I missed the A&S's 0-10-0 even though it did clearly have a booster.  Nothing I can find details the dynamic augment fix.  Even with 57 inch drivers they can't have been allowed much in the way of top speed.

The electric line is the St. Louis & Belleville Electric, one of the few "interurbans" that was really more interested in freight than passengers from the start.  The StL&BE was also someting of a pioneer in multi-power locomotives, with a gas-electric-electric originally built for the Illinois Central.  The passenger side was operated as the East St. Louis & Suburban.  The split was due originally to the passenger lines being constructed with the St. Louis gauge of 4' 10". The freight line was converted to standard gauge in 1901, the 85 miles of passenger lines were converted in 1905.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 3:51 PM

rcdrye
I missed the A&S's 0-10-0 even though it did clearly have a booster.  Nothing I can find details the dynamic augment fix.  Even with 57 inch drivers they can't have been allowed much in the way of top speed.

And it didn't just shine out at you what PRR tried on 62" wheels that A&S made work?

Hint: the A&S had reasons to try to make it work.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:05 PM

St. Louis & Bellville, Wow!   I wonder how much of thar interurban RoW the current  modern interurban *OK, we call it  light rail) between St. Louis and Bellv uille uses.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:16 PM

daveklepper
St. Louis & Belleville, Wow!   I wonder how much of that interurban RoW the current  modern interurban *OK, we call it  light rail) between St. Louis and Belleville uses.

According to Scalzo, apparently none.  Peabody sold it to the IC, which apparently had parallel tracks so they tore it up in entirety and abandoned it.

https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2020/10/east-st-louis-suburban-railway.html?m=1

The Metro does run on ex-Wabash ROW for a bit.

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