Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, April 4, 2020 8:06 AM

The CGW, Milw, CB&Q, and RI reached from Chicago to the Twin Cities, Omaha, and Kansas City.

The CB&Q and the RI also served St. Louis.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, April 4, 2020 11:08 AM

And the RI served Memphis, too.  Your question.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, April 4, 2020 1:06 PM

In 1931-32, Pullman rebuilt several 16 section cars into 14 section cars. What was unique about these cars? What was done with the space formerly occupied by two of the sections? (the other sections were not changed). How were the cars then described?

 

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, April 4, 2020 3:10 PM

We had this question not too long ago, didn't we?  Bathrooms?

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, April 4, 2020 3:14 PM

Overmod

We had this question not too long ago, didn't we?

 

We did.  Those were the plan 2412H cars rebuilt for the Lark and various Southern Railway trains.  Four enclosed sections (two each sharing a bathroom) replaced six normal sections.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, April 4, 2020 5:45 PM

According to Kratville's Passenger Car Catalog, p. 11, plan 2412H had 4 private washrooms (each displaced section was made into two washrooms), giving the section immediately next to one exclusive use of it. These sections were described as "private sections."

Yes, four cars were named for men well-known in the South (Henry W. Grady, John T. Morgan, John M. Morehead, and John Slidell). Equipment description of the Crescent thereafter described them as "14 sections"--and it took all four to run on that train (two nights each way). I do not doubt that Pullman charged a little more for these.

At one time later, the L&N described a car on a one night train as having a 14 section car, and they were no  longer listed in the Crescent's equipment.

The other cars so altered were given names in a Dale-- series; there is no mention of what roads they were used on.

You did get the general idea.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, April 4, 2020 6:18 PM

Most if not all of the Dale cars were assigned to SP, primarily for the Lark, though some ran in the Sunset.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:03 AM

Bumping this up....whose turn is it?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 11:08 AM

Johnny's!  I just primed the pump a little, as it were.

Or rcdrye's, if his confirming my 'hint' involved enough detail to constitute giving it away...

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 1:34 PM

Clearly Johnny's...

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:28 PM

Overmod

Johnny's!  I just primed the pump a little, as it were.

Or rcdrye's, if his confirming my 'hint' involved enough detail to constitute giving it away...

 

Yes, rcdrye has the floor. He presented the general idea that the sections that were removed were replaced with toilet facilities which were not available to all the passengers in the car, though he missed a detail or two.

Apparently, the idea did not really catch on, as the railroads did not rush to ask Pullman to rework more cars. I do not doubt that the passengers who had to pass the private washrooms did not appreciate their presence. However, when roomettes were designed, each with its own facilities, I am sure that passengers appreciated them even though most entailed backing into the aisle (with the curtain covering the back of the passenger) to lower or raise the bed. The cutaway bed was a great discovery--the passenger simply stood in the area freed by cutting part of the bed away while lowering or raising the bed. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 6:40 AM

Unique among private room space this train had two pairs of adjoining single rooms of a type used on no other cars.  They were later redesignated duplex single rooms, though they were not staggered like other duplex rooms.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 3:28 PM

Did this RR and/or this train have single rooms of the staggered type as well?

Was each car all-1st-class sleeper under Pillman umbrella or a railroad operation with a RR-modified car witih both 1st-class and coach accomodations?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 3:42 PM

The RR and train never had rooms of the staggered type until after the rooms had been redesignated duplex single rooms.  This was a railroad-owned car operated under contract by Pullman.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 4:47 PM

My guess woiuld be the Broadway before PRR introduced its Creek series, and the favorable reaction to thse rooms prompted the design and order of the Creek cars.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 30, 2020 7:12 AM

The room type was only used in these cars on this train, and no other.  The designation was changed before the cars were reassigned.  I'm not sure when the designation changed but it was probably around the 1948-49 rebuilding.

The Creek cars were technically owned by Pullman and leased to PRR until the 1947 breakup, when ownership and lease reversed.  These cars were always railroad-owned.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 30, 2020 7:56 AM

Was the 1948-9 rebuilding the second time the cars were reconfigured?  Or rebuilt?

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 30, 2020 8:27 AM

The cars were never reconfigured.  The train spent twenty years on one run before being reassigned to another run, where it ran for another 10 years or so.  The cars withthe unusual rooms were added a couple of years after the train was introduced.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 30, 2020 5:54 PM

A little more research:  The rooms had their original name in the Feb. 1948 OG and in the 1950 Pullman descriptive list (diagram 280).  By 1952 they had been renamed.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, May 2, 2020 4:03 PM

rcdrye

The RR and train never had rooms of the staggered type until after the rooms had been redesignated duplex single rooms.  This was a railroad-owned car operated under contract by Pullman.

 

The train: CB&Q's Denver Zephyr.

The accomodations: The four chamberettes that were in Silver Slipper and Silver Moon, Budd-built sleepers that were incorporated in the consists of the Denver Zephyr in 1939.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, May 2, 2020 7:54 PM

That's it! Chambrettes had a sofa/bed and a private toilet that was usable while the bed was down, and sold for a rate between a roomette and a bedroom. The Denver Zephyr was the trigger for the Pullman breakup, because Pullman balked at operating Budd-built cars.  Pullman did eventually agree to operate the cars.  The other original DZ sleepers had three 12-section cars and a 6DBR, 3 Cpt, 1DR car.  The sleepers were articulated in pairs, a pair of 12sec cars and a 12sec car with the all-room car.  The Silver Moon and Silver Slipper also had roomettes, DBRs and a DR, and were not articulated.

The DZ had a unique 220V head end power system so "normal" cars could not be readily added to the consist.  When the 1956 DZ was delivered, the 1936 cars (along with Silver Slipper and Silver Moon) were rebuilt to allow for easier interoperation with other normal cars, and assigned to the Texas Zephyr, where they remained until the train was discontinued.  The 1936 DZ cars replaced some TZ cars that were newer and had fewer miles on them.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:42 PM

Once upon a time there was a fancy train....

On a specific date, this train went through a couple of major changes:

On one end, its endpoint was cut back. 

On the other end, its endpoint was extended.

Shed no tears for the trains route truncation - for it still served its old endpoint, albeit with connecting service but on a schedule that ultimately was hours faster compared to when it was running through to the previous endpoint.

 

The train, the date, and the changes it went through, please.

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:08 AM

Not sure this is what you wish, but the original Sunset Limited was a San Franciso - New Orleans train, and was cut back to L. A., with good L. A. - S. F. connections, and with the advent of the Daylight, a lot faster.  At the other end it was extended to Florida as an an Amtrak train, operating variously to Miami or only to Orlando.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:37 AM

daveklepper

Not sure this is what you wish, but the original Sunset Limited was a San Franciso - New Orleans train, and was cut back to L. A., with good L. A. - S. F. connections, and with the advent of the Daylight, a lot faster.  At the other end it was extended to Florida as an an Amtrak train, operating variously to Miami or only to Orlando.

 

Good try but the Sunset Limited is not it. In my original question I mention that the truncation and extention happened on the same day (from my research I believe this was the case.)

Your answer did give some glimmer of clues: for the train I'm looking for the truncation happened on the western endpoint and the extention happened on the eastern endpoint.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 3:56 PM

Amtrak or bvefore Amtrak?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 4:14 PM

daveklepper

Amtrak or bvefore Amtrak?

 

Before...

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 5:37 PM

Watch this be something that started out going across the Straits at Benicia and up the Peninsula into SF, and then got retasked to run via the Oakland Mole...

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 8:30 PM

Overmod

Watch this be something that started out going across the Straits at Benicia and up the Peninsula into SF, and then got retasked to run via the Oakland Mole...

 

No, its not a California train.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, May 18, 2020 10:14 AM

Time for some insight....

Daveklepper asked if an Amtrak train was involved and it was not. 

But - 

The train I'm looking for lasted until Amtrak Day, but the change that affected this train happened relatively early in its career.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 18, 2020 10:27 AM

I'm going to guess at B&O's "Cincinnatian", which started as a Washington-Cincinnati run to compete with the "Chessie" and was changed over to Cincinnati-Detroit after the "Chessie" never went into service.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul

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