Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, March 16, 2020 7:53 PM

Overmod

 

 
rcdrye
We got a winner! 

 

See my post March 11th at 2:37...

 

I found your post (it arrived here at 1:37 )

I found the answer on page 21 of Car Names Numbers and Consists. The purchase from the Rio Grande is also mentioned on that page.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:54 AM

As far as I'm concerned you can have it; you found the valid cites that I couldn't.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 7:31 AM

The March 11th answer had to do with NYC's 1960s commuter car purchase. Of course of you meant 1946 intead of 1964...

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 3:13 PM

rcdrye
The March 11th answer had to do with NYC's 1960s commuter car purchase. Of course if you meant 1946 intead of 1964...

I got my orders mixed up 'overspecifying' details.  It seemed so obvious that it fit NYC-PRR given the details of the traffic expansion that i didn't check exactly what that early-Sixties order consisted of ... although I did wonder what NYC could possibly be doing ordering that many '64-seat coaches' that late...

(Incidentally I believe one of these late NYC things has made its way to the Indiana Railroad Museum in New Haven -- complete with powered trucks of a design that makes it almost impossible to see that they are motored, even when you know what to look for...)

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 8:23 PM

In 1943, the L&N ran two interesting overnight Pullman lines; they had the same northern terminal (A), ran together as part of a coach and Pullman train that originated far north of A for some distance; at B they ran together as an all-Pullman train to point C, where they split; one car continued to its destination (D) as part of a coach and Pullman train; the other car continued to its destination as an all-Pullman train. There may have been mail cars and a baggage car in the all-Pullman consist; there is no mention of such in the equipment listing

Name the origin, wayside, and destination points

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, March 20, 2020 10:21 AM

The all-Pullman train was an inter-state train.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, March 21, 2020 6:53 AM

I don't have access to a 1943 L&N timetable, but here's what was around in April 1944.

The Pan American, Train 99, originated in Cincinnati with coaches and Pullmans.  In 1944 only two Pullmans originated beyond Cincinnati, but that may have been due to an ODT order - the Pan had through New York Pullmans to various destinations both before and after WWII.

In Bowling Green KY the train split, with 199 going off to Memphis, carrying one of the New York Pullmans. A New York Pullman was set out in Nashville.  In Birmingham the train picked up two setout sleepers, one each for Mobile and Pensacola, carrying them to Montgomery. In Montgomery the Birmingham setouts, along with a Montgomery-Mobile car, were made up into train 35, which left Montgomery a couple of hours after the Pan-American, with no coaches.  My guess would be that mail and express were carried, because 35 had a relatively slow schedule.  In Flomaton AL, the Pensacola car was set out for train 63 to pick up later. The presence of the Pensacola car made 35 into an interstate train, even though train 35 itself only operated in Alabama.  Northbound the train numbers were 64, 36 and 98.

All of this begs the question of why these short "lines" even existed, when the Office of Defense Transportation had ordered the cancellation of many short Pullman routes to save cars for military transport.  Montgomery-Mobile is only 178 rail miles.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, March 21, 2020 11:43 AM

You have the cars. The operations were from Birmingham to two ports, and it may have been that there was full occupancy.

The ODT order came in 1945, when many servicemen were being brought home, so these lines were still in operation in earlier years.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, March 21, 2020 2:06 PM

So here's something that mixes current events with history...

During a flu scare, in a response to people complaining of getting sick from the foul air on "L" trains, the Chicago Elevated Railways modified several cars in 1915 for health purposes.  The cars were not widely accepted, and were quickly withdrawn from service and restored to their former configuration.  What were the modifications, and what were the cars called?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 22, 2020 10:10 AM

My guess is that the upper sash of some or all of the windows was replaced with a venilation device that admitted and exhausted air without a direct wind, like roof-mounted ventilators.  But the these cars were obviously colder in winter, and Chicago winters are cold.  Possibly called air-flow cars or breezers or fresh-air cars?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 22, 2020 2:24 PM

"Too much fresh air is just enough" was one of the mottoes posted in Chicago Elevated Railways "Fresh Air" cars.  Thes cars were taken from the Northwestern El's 1260-1299 series trailers, built by ACF in 1907 with semi-convertible sash, a drop pocket in the side, and a pocket in the roof.  CER modified the cars so the windows were kept open and the heaters disabled, and put one car each in the middle of several trains.  The service was inaugurated on November 15, 1915, just in time for winter.  For what should be obvious reasons, the cars were not very popular, and the cars resumed their normal configuration pretty quickly.  Car 1268 from this series, modifed in 1916 as a control trailer, survives in operable condition at Illinois Railway Museum.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 23, 2020 2:46 AM

Why did they disable the heaters?   Just dumb!   The heat was even more necessary in these cars.  Doesn't Chicago experience a months' worth or more of days and certainly nights with below-freezing temperature every winter

I had assumed the modifications were for 2000-series cars.

You should ask another question, since my answer was incorrect.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, March 23, 2020 12:38 PM

As I recall, there was a very similar "innovation" on streetcars consisting of keeping the doors open all the time -- the references I remember using the term 'vestibule doors' which I associated with something other than typical folding entry/exit doors.  Added to the comfort issues would be the risk of people falling out, I'd think ... it did not last long, either.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 23, 2020 2:14 PM

I was trying to find a reference for CSL having "Fresh Air Cars" at the same time - the term "vestibule door" would probably also mean the bulkhead door since Chicago cars often ran with the rear platform doors open.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 23, 2020 4:08 PM

This former street railway/interurban bus company equipped six transit buses with hi-rail gear in the late 1960s to test the concept of using its former parent's rails to bypass rush hour highway traffic.  The intent was to use city streets when the city was reached.  Testing showed that the ride quality would be less than acceptable. The killer was a union attempt to require a full train crew when the bus was on rails. Despite the test failure, one of the buses retained its hi-rail gear when all six of them went into regular street service.  Name the bus company and the city, with extra credit for the intended railroad, and where the testing took place.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 26, 2020 6:19 AM

Was this still a business or was it a municipally-, state-. or other local authority-owned bus system?

 

Japan's railways are again experimenting with this concept for lines on Hokaido Islalnd, where some passenger routes are still operated with less than 500 riders per day.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:18 AM

This'll be the Red Arrow experiments in Philadelphia, between 1967 and 1968.  See here for more detail.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:17 AM

Wow, I did not see that coming.  The Red Arrow tests revealed the same ride problems that the ones I was looking for had, but didn't involve a class I with a cranky union.  I'll hold this 'til later today, and if nobody comes up with (my) correct answer, you win.  For what it's worth, one of the rail-buses is still alive and well, complete with rail wheels.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 26, 2020 1:10 PM

can you answer my question, still a business or a gov. operation?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, March 26, 2020 3:52 PM

Your correct answer, complete with the seven-man crew, is the '67 Fairmont Conversion (remember Fairport Convention?) built for my beloved Connecticut Company for use in Hartford (more specifically from Rockville/Vernon right into city center).

You'd think these guys would have learned from the Evans Auto-Railer that these things need primary suspension that both tracks and guides well ... but secondary that gives the net 'resultant' of pneumatic tires and well-damped air-bag suspension at the front of the bus.  

Union attitude like this, over issues of weight, torpedoed the SPV2000 before it even got much of a fair chance to show what it could do.  Much of the wackiness was solved with eight-wheel drive...

Here's your survivor, #1712

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 26, 2020 6:30 PM

That's it! 1712 is at the Connecticut Fire Museum, which shares the grounds of the Connecticut Trolley Museum at Warehouse Point, Connecticut. The initial testing was done at Warehouse Point, with poor results as noted.  It was out on the road at the Cabin Fever event there in February, but not on the rails.

The Connecticut Co. apparently started this project with GM and Fairmont with the cooperation of the New Haven, but without talking to the unions, at the time the BLE, BLF, and UTU.  Since Ct. Co. drivers were represented by a non-rail union, the full crew requirement may have been a gambit to have rail union members get the driver jobs.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 2:51 AM

Still waiting for your question, Overmod.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 11:58 AM

In the late Fifties a company experimented with radio remote control of reciprocating locomotives, for a specific purpose.  Name the company and the anticipated reason.  Extra points for the type of diesel also 'experimented with' at the time...

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 11:50 PM

By reciprocating do you mean steam reciprocating?  Because diesel engines, the prime movers, are also reciprocating.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:20 AM

By remote control, only off the train, or does from elsewhere in the train count?

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 2, 2020 6:06 AM

Pennsylvania Power and Light had two fireless steam locomotives at plants in Pennsylvania with radio remote control, apparently tried inthe late 1940s.  The remote control system was designed by Union Switch & Signal.  Since the controls were originally designed for diesels, getting them set right seems to have been a challenge - US&S employees said that "an excessive amount of profanity" was used during the trials.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 2, 2020 8:56 AM

2-cylinder, quartered, reciprocating steam locomotives, with Walschaerts valve gear, but not requiring the complexity of the N&W 'automatic' M2s to suit them for remote operation...

rcdrye has the answer I was looking for, although my understanding ... such as it is ... was that the experiments were in the '50s rather than the '40s.  It would be interesting to have more precise technical details.

(Courtesy of RyPN)

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, April 2, 2020 9:30 AM

The picture you have there is from 1949, at least according to the web site where it was posted.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:17 PM

rcdrye
The picture you have there is from 1949, at least according to the web site where it was posted.

Shows how far you can trust soi-disant serious preservationists!  (As I understand it, they let this one be scrapped, btw...)

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, April 4, 2020 6:04 AM

By my count, in 1950 four railroad systems reached from Chicago to the Twin Cities, Omaha and Kansas City.  Two of those also served St. Louis. List the four and the two.

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