Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, August 10, 2019 3:33 PM

rcdrye

The Miamian, trains 7 and 8, which ran about twice a week, carried a large number of Pullmans, most cars having bedrooms, compartments and drawing rooms, with only three cars listed in the January 1960 OG as having roomettes.  Several sleeper-lounges, a full lounge and a diner made up the rest of the train.

The 1961-1962 winter season seems to have been the train's last.

 

The Miamian was it. The train was operated by ACL as a secondary seasonal in various formats as traffic conditions demanded. In the 1930's and postwar 40s it was operated as an all-Pullman train, being blessed with "The Train of Society" subtitle in ACL advertisements around 1940. Eventually, The Miamian became the only additional seasonal winter train ACL operated besides the Florida Special. Coaches were sometimes added and by the mid-50's it was running in less-than-daily service. I believe there were time periods where the train operated year-round as well. (One year in the 1950's ACL wanted to run the train in the summer months but was rebuffed by FEC, refusing to handle the train due to cost concerns) As you mentioned, the 1961-62 season was the trains last.

Rcdrye, you're next.

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, August 11, 2019 5:57 PM

One of the first postwar trains inaugurated, this train carried sections, duplex roomettes, bedrooms and a drawing room.  In its first revamp four years later, both standard roomettes and compartments were added.  A long time good performer, the train was one of the last to receive a completely new paint scheme in the 1960s.

Name the train and railroad(s) involved.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, August 11, 2019 11:25 PM

Seaboard Air Line's Silver Star?  The 1967 SCL merger would have resulted in a new livery, with locomotives receiving Atlantic Coast Line's basic black and yellow scheme.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 12, 2019 1:57 AM

The Silver Star, like all ACL and SAL streamliners, retained its stainless steel appearance, and there was not much difference between ACL and SAL passenger equipment in apperance.  Heavyweights, yes, with purple on any ACL modernized equipment.  Near-Pullman green for Seaboard.  Not much was done for SCL identification on the passenger equipment, other than the lettering itself. 

Once, riding the West Coast Champion from Orlando or Lakeland to New York, before the merger, the AC on a sleeper wasn't working.  The car was cut out at Jacksonville, and the replacement sleeper was lettered Seaboard.

Seaboard had all stainless steel with black lettering.  ACL had a purple letterboard with silver or white lettering.

GN's trains met the description regarding paint, the Empire Builder and the Western Star.  But the Empire Builder lasted with Amtrak, and the Western Star did not.  The GN Sky Blue and white replaced the orange and green.  Then BN repainted to green-and-white.  But I don't think that job was completed before Amtrak.

Railroads involved were the GN, CB&Q, and SP&S.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 12, 2019 2:11 AM

More on the SAL and ACL trains.  The year-round trains, East and West Coast Campions, the Silver Star, and the Silver Meteor. in general were kept purely  stainless steel.  But the winter-season-only trains usually had equipment not needed in the winter by western railroads, and were largely made-up of lightweight equipment from the NP, UP, SP, GN, CB&Q, CNStP&P, and SP&S, without any repainting.  Did not see AT&SF equipment on these trains.  I suspect because shop crews were unfamliar with sream-ejector AC.   PRR Tucscan red equipment also was used on these trains.  I think at one time Creek duplex-roomette cars on the Florida Special.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 12, 2019 6:41 AM

GN's 1947 Empire Builder had 4sec, 8 DRmt, 4DBR "Pass" cars, and 16 DRmt, 4 DBR "Glacier" cars, along with a 2DBR, DR "River" observation lounge.  The 1951 upgrade brought 6 Rmt, 5 DBR, 3 Cpt (also "Pass") and 4 sec 8 DRmt, 6DBR, 1 Cpt "River" cars into the mix.  The "River" observations were later rebuilt into "Coulee" cars for the Western Star, replaced by "Mountain" 2 Rmt obs lounges.

GN painted two complete sets of Empire Builder equipment in "Big Sky Blue" in 1967.  CB&Q's move combining the Empire Builder and NP's North Coast Limited east of the Twin Cities in early 1968 slowed the project so only a few cars were repainted in 1968 and 1969.

The only major user of steam-ejector equipment besides ATSF was Southern.  ATSF had a fairly even seasonal traffic distribution for Pullman-equipped trains and was not a major supplier of equipment for off-season use. 

PRR's Creek series had duplex single rooms with crosswise beds.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 12, 2019 9:39 AM

And were truly my favorite nightime train travel.

A company well-known for supplying equipment to rail-car builders, with a particular specialty, innovative when new, but now regarded as old hat and mostly being supplied for restored and repaired cars, construcyed one car.  The design appears to have influenced transit bus design before it eventually influenced rail-car design.  Another innovative feature had little influence.

I think the company is still in business, supplying mainly the truck market.

I think the body of the car still exists, and the material to restore it is practically off-the-shelf.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 18, 2019 1:04 AM

Hint:   The car is a streetcar

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:40 AM

daveklepper
Hint:   The car is a streetcar

Further hint:carbody fabricated in aluminum.  And the company is famous for forklifts.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 18, 2019 9:44 AM

daveklepper
Hint:   The car is a streetcar

Further hint:carbody fabricated in aluminum.  And the company is famous for forklifts.  Also for this, at about the same time as the thing Dave mentions (although they could assuredly have figured out better streamlining!) with its Cadillac V16 power...

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 19, 2019 2:17 AM

Overmod, let us give it two more days.  With nobody else answering by Thursday morning, you can give the full story, and I will try to post a picture.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 19, 2019 7:00 AM

A product of the company that supplied trucks and other parts for PCC cars, the Clark Autotram was built in Battle Creek, Michigan in 1932.  Looking like a cross between a Mack Truck and a McKeen car (but with square windows), it had a Cadillac V-16.  Clark is very much in business today.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 19, 2019 9:46 AM

rcdrye
the Clark Autotram was built in Battle Creek, Michigan in 1932.

You got the hint, but not the answer!  And judging by the answer you'll be dancing around the correct reply.  Try again.

The AutoTram was badly misnamed.  To me it always was not a 'streetcar' but an interurban -- a Crandic-style interurban to run 90+ between towns.  Hard to believe there isn't a niche for that even today, but as with Speedrail the first little oopsie in a vehicle of that construction would be the end of its operating company...

It's less difficult to understand what they were trying to achieve with that streamlining when you've seen a Dornier Wal ... cutting-edge modern at that time.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 19, 2019 9:47 AM

Here's another hint:  Dave said it would not be difficult to restore.  Find where the carbody of the vehicle in question now is.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 19, 2019 4:49 PM

The trucks look like Clark B2 PCC trucks, with PCC style resilient wheels.  Connect the V16 through a reasonable transmission and shaft to the Clark final drive and...

I haven't found any info on the body's disposition.  Under normal circumstances it would have been cut up for scrap in WWII.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 19, 2019 7:45 PM

rcdrye, you still haven't quite gotten to the right answer.  The carbody in question is very much 'in being' in a fairly well-known place.

Pretty sure the body and frame structure of the Auto-Tram prototypes were lost to scrap drives ... by then there was no perceived market for high-speed interurbans.  On the other hand, a number of people have independently noted that there's no indication where the two Cadillac 452 motors went ... they might easily be knocking around in Battle Creek somewhere.  Probably wouldn't put them in a railcar, though.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 22, 2019 3:42 AM

Overmod. please go ahead and give the full story (and do come up with the next question) and I will post the picture(s).

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 22, 2019 8:06 AM

daveklepper
Overmod. please go ahead and give the full story

What Mr. Klepper was after was the Clark PCC car, built 1936, which was the only one entirely framed in aluminum (although the preserved car 1000, at the Trolley Museum of New York has one end that was wreck-damaged replaced in steel).  It has always been interesting to me that there was so little interest in aluminum construction for this kind of car; on the other hand, it's very fortunate it survived the aircraft scrap drives, something its even more historic relations like the early Union Pacific motor trains did not.

A very large order for a kind of 'follow-on' to this design was received, but only prototypes were built before the order was cancelled.  What was the specific purpose of the lightweight trains, and why was the order cancelled when it was?

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 23, 2019 5:22 AM

First, keeping my promise, here are two photos of Brooklyn's 1000., first on a fantrip pictured in the Williamsburg area, and then in regular service on McDonald Avenue passing a South Brooklyn freight headed by a just-purchased war-surplus diesel.

Second, it was the rear-end that was replaced.

Third, this was the first transit vehicle with standee windows.  Not intorduced to PCC cars until after WWII, but intoduced by GM Yellow Coach on their first diesel buses, first seen in local military base transportation in 1941.

Fourth, the car wqs sold to the BMT (B&QT) by Clark as a replacement for the original B&QT 1000, which was diverted to Pittsborgh as their 100.  All this 1935.

I'l give someone else a chance to answ2er Overmod's question.  Rode that prototype more often than 1000. 

Like 1000, it was in regular service until 1954.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, August 23, 2019 5:59 AM

daveklepper
I'll give someone else a chance to answer Overmod's question. Rode that prototype more often than 1000.

It's a bit of a 'gimme' because rcdrye was so close with the other question, but it requires some specific knowledge of the railroad involved to answer.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, August 23, 2019 9:21 AM

BMT had Clark build a 3 compartment, 4 truck articulated PCC rapid transit car for a prototype to a 50 train order to replace 80 wood-bodied rapid transit cars. New York City's purchase of BMT in 1940 resulted in scuttling the order.

Chicago Rapid Transit's 1946 Pullman and St Louis Car articulated trainsets owed a lot to the Bluebirds.  Drawings of the Chicago subways often included a Bluebird-like train.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, August 23, 2019 10:02 AM

This covers the issue but doesn't answer either point in the question.  Precisely why did BMT want these cars, and specifically where would they be used?  And what was the reason, the actual reason, for 'scuttling' the order ... it was not just because NYC didn't want to pay the money.

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