Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, November 29, 2018 2:26 PM

Close enough.  B&A's Newton Lower Falls branch was served by the "Ping-Pong", a combine (numbered 01!) equipped with trolley poles, for the 1.1 mile run from Riverside station in Newton Center to Newton Lower Falls between 1900 and 1930.  After the Middlesex & Boston Street Railway quit, depriving B&A of its 600 Volt source, B&A reduced service to two trains a day in each direction, initially with B&A tank engines, later with RS1s.  Passenger service was discontinued about the time the Riverside Branch was sold to the MTA.  Freight service lasted until the Conrail era.

http://urbanvista-boston.blogspot.com/2014/10/newton-lower-falls-branch-route-of-ping.html

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:02 PM

Why, what do you know, a Massachusetts counterpart to the PJ&B!

To get a handle on how interesting this was, consider the following overhead (taken from the reference page provided)

Then consider aspects of the topography that made it possible for the railroad to continue this specific service as long as it did ... and without using an RDC or gas-electric instead of an RS-1 and coach in the 'dieselized' years.

I admit from the discussion to somewhat uncomfortable mirth over how this was 'the trolley that met all the trains' ...

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:48 PM

Was not the situation even more complex?   This NYC-B&A trolleycar met steam trains at both ends, the Highland Branch at Riverside, and the main line at Newton Lower Falls.  When steam took over, was not this the regular route of a loop service, where tank engines ran out on the main line and return via the Highland Branch and the revese?   Also, the track connection at Riverside did stay in place for a while and was used by the contractor for the bare-bones rebuilding of the Highland for PCC-car operation, including the required connecting tunnel near Kenmore Station.  It was removed when the yard at Riverside was expanded with a maintenance shop installed.

And the term "Light Rail" was used by some in connection with the project.  Check an issue of Roll Sign of the period.

My question:  The Highland Branch conversion, and the addition of Riverside service to the Central Subway, was done without buying any new rail rolling stock.  What was bought instead, and how was this accomplished?  What equipment shifts were necessary?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, December 03, 2018 2:34 AM

Hint:  Opening the light rail to Riverside involved buses, trolleybuses, and PCCs.   Only one of the three was purchased.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 05, 2018 4:07 AM

Simplfying the question.   Already stated no rail vehicles were purchased.

So, if buses, and the PCC streetcars were all involved. what was purchased and what did they replace and did those replace so PCCs could be used on the Riverside Line?

Should be a giveaway, easy.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 09, 2018 9:04 AM

I guess my question is not of interest to most readers, so will give the answer and ask another question to replace it.

The PCC cars that operated out of Harvard Square were transferred to Resevoir, for Beacon street and Commonwealth Avenue servicees to replace the latest "Picture Window" PCCs that operated the Riverside service, which initially also operated out of Resevoir, later Riverside itself.  Trackless trolleys that operated out of Arborway and Forest Hills were transferred to Harvard to replace streetcars, with new buses just for Arlington Heights, with the buses loading on the surface and not in the sreetcar subway.  Buses replaced trackless trolley out of Arborway and Forest Hills.  Only new GM buses were bought.

After Chicago's State Street subway opened an Elevated branch lost regular passengers service but continued in another role for many years.  What was that role and when did it end.  I don't know if the structure still exists! 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, December 09, 2018 12:48 PM

Boston didn't get any electric-powered surface vehicles between 1952 and 1976. The 1951 TT's that were transferred to Harvard got left side doors in 1958.  They were framed in as built but not used in Arborway of Forest Hills service.

The original line of the South Side Rapid Transit"." plus the section built to connect it to the Union Loop were taken out of service for CTA purposes in 1949.  From 1943-1949 CRT and CTA used the original main line for rush-hour only service from the Congress Street Terminal.

The main user of the segment during the 1943-1963 period was the North Shore Line, which was the exclusive user of the Roosevelt Rd. L station after the Congress stub trains were discontinued.  The branch was used as a detour and to move equipment from 1963 to 1969, when it became part of the (Lake-)Dan Ryan Extension.  Further use was made with the opening of the Orange Line in 1993.  The Dan Ryan extension and the old South Side line swapped connections in 1993, with the new Green Line combining the SSRT with Lake Street.  The Congress terminal was removed in 1963.  The Harrison Street s-curves were replaced with a more direct path around 2010.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 09, 2018 2:42 PM

OK.  l Was really refering to the Congress Street stub, since the Roosevelt Rd L Sation did see passenger service, even if only North Shore, not CTA.  The stub itself was also used by the North Shore for equipment layover and some sort of baggage and parcel service for a time.

Thanks for the info on the removal of the Congress St. Terminal tracks. And by all means post the next question,

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 09, 2018 2:50 PM

The Congress Street stub was the original in-town terminal of the Southside Elevated, and aI recall Noth Side had a similar stub terminal.  Lster they were joined bly the Loop. but capacity restrainst meant that many rush hour trains continued to use the stub terminals.  Douglas and Garfield Park and Northwest shared the Well Street Terminal that continued to be used by the CA&E up to the construction of the Dearborn Street Subway.  But what about Lake Street.  I don't recall any downtown stub for Lake Street.  Was there one?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, December 10, 2018 6:59 AM

Lake Street's original terminal was at Market (today's Wacker Drive) and Madison.  It took a sharp right over Market just east of the Chicago River bridge. All of the stub terminals (Met shared Wells with CA&E) stayed in use until CTA implemented A/B skip-stop service starting with Lake Street in 1948 all of the stub terminals were closed.  The entire Market Street stub was torn down for the Wacker Drive project. 

North Water Street, the north side stub, was removed around 1965 after a period of time as a storage area for work equipment. 

Congress was used by the North Shore (as was Roosevelt, otherwise closed by CTA). 

Wells (Metropolitan) was demolished above track level in 1955 to allow for a connection to the Loop (Tower 22) to replace the former "Met" connection at Van Buren and Wells (Tower 8) after it closed due to Wacker Drive construction (the one block northward jog to the Met main line was over Market Street).  Tower 22 and the track there remained for a while (1964) after the Met's bridges over the Chicago River were removed in 1961, and used for storage.

I'll post a new question later today.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, December 11, 2018 10:29 AM

A jurisdictional dispute between two unions came very close to ending interurban service between two midwestern cities in the 1940s Until it was resolved, crews changed at the city limits.  Name the cities and the railroad.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 12, 2018 4:13 AM

Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee

Chicago - Milwaukee, Chicago - Kenosha, Chicago - Mundelein

CTA employees represented by the Amalgamated Transport Workers

CNS&M engineers represented by the Brotherhood of Locomotive Englineers

CNS&M trainmen represented by the Brotherhood of Railroad (Railway?) Trainmen

Crews changed at Howard Street until the dispute was resolved.  How was it resolved?

A first-time rider going north from Chicago not seeing the front destingation sing could easily board the wrong train during this period.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, December 12, 2018 6:23 AM

Finally resolved in North Shore's favor after the 1948 strike.  Crews ran through to the end of operations.  The dispute actually started under CRT, ended under CTA.  Oddly enough it did not affect North Shore crews operating on CRT/CTA track on the Shore Line, since the track there was owned by CMStP&P and subject to a separate agreement.

The CA&E had no such dispute because of the joint operating agreement for the Westchester line.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 12, 2018 8:03 AM

A train inaugurated between two Midwestern cities with excellent food in a the diner and a fast running time by one railroad in direct reaction to the downgrading or service on another railroad's trains between the same two cities.  Both railroads operated other more long-distance passenger services as well.

Train name, two cities, railroads, and any other details you wish to add.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 13, 2018 7:31 AM

Hint:  Both railroads operated interline trains that entered Canada.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 13, 2018 12:00 PM

Grand Trunk Western's Mohawk, inaugurated in 1967, was a direct response to New York Central's downgrading of passenger service in general, and between Chicago and Detroit in particular.  Prior to the Mohawk Detroit was served mainly by connections at Durand to main line trains for Port Huron and Toronto.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, December 13, 2018 2:59 PM

rcdrye

Grand Trunk Western's Mohawk, inaugurated in 1967, was a direct response to New York Central's downgrading of passenger service in general, and between Chicago and Detroit in particular.  Prior to the Mohawk Detroit was served mainly by connections at Durand to main line trains for Port Huron and Toronto.

 

Sad to say, the first class service did not last long. In the fall of 1969 there was only a snack car, and I wanted to take the parlor car to Detroit--the day after it made its last run. Other than the reduction in first class service, it was a pleasant trip. 

There was a Grand Trunk Pullman overnight, with a commection in Durand, earlier.

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, December 14, 2018 6:25 AM

About the same time GTW introduced the Mohawk, this eastern road upgraded its trains with used equipment, even wrangling some help from its partner on the run, which was not otherwise interested in upgrading passenger service.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, December 14, 2018 10:15 AM

That would be the Delaware & Hudson, which upgraded the "Laurentian" with ex-ATSF PA's and ex-Rio Grande and EL coaches and snack bars.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, December 15, 2018 10:22 AM

D&H Managed to keep New York Central (and later Penn Central) involved, carrying D&H coaches south of Albany, and supplying both 10rmt6dbr sleepers and 6dbr-lounge cars right up to April 30, 1971.  The Montreal Limited may have had the last buffet-sleeper assigned to an ex-NYC train, though several operated in ex-PRR territory.  D&H's ex D&RGW diner-lounges, part of the huge C&O order of 1946, were turned at Albany on the Laurentian.

The PAs were hardly orphans as D&H was using them to replace RS3s, and online Alco was still producing new locomotives at the time.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, December 19, 2018 1:54 AM

Waiting for CSS's new question

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, December 23, 2018 4:13 AM

Still waiting

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 02, 2019 5:09 PM

Paul (CSSHEGEWISCH) is still up.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 09, 2019 5:24 AM

And still is.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, January 09, 2019 10:10 AM

I'll pass this time.  The previous questioner can go again.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 12, 2019 7:59 AM

Here's a steam question:

These 10 locomotives, among the largest in the world at the time, were delivered to their owner via a circuitous route nearly twice as long as the direct route, with many parts including cabs shipped in gondolas. The messengers sent with the engines rode in wooden shelters set up near the pilot.  The engines were delivered in 1918 primarily for pusher service, but ended up doing road haul service in WWII, lasting to near the end of steam on the owning railroad.  Other locomotives of this wheel arrangement were rebuilt to smaller dimensions.

Just looking for the wheel arrangement.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, January 14, 2019 10:03 AM

I will say that the locos are VGN 2-10-10-2's.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 14, 2019 2:29 PM

The 10 VGN AE class 800 2-10-10-2's were big enough that they were routed from Schenectady via D&H, Erie and Toledo & Ohio Central (NYC) to VGN's Princeton W. Va. shops.  The forward cylinders were sloped slightly to clear the pilot truck.  Used mainly in pusher service in the teens, twenties and thirties, the 800s (minus one lost to a boiler explosion) were used to haul coal trains on the east end from Roanoke to Norfolk during WWII with good results.  Only the arrival of the AG and BA class 2-6-6-6 and 2-8-4s moved them back into the hills.   Not used much after 1945, they were;nt officially retired until 1953.

Santa Fe had the only other 2-10-10-2's, which were rebuilt into 2-10-2s after a short period.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 14, 2019 2:56 PM

Did any of the Sante Fe 2-10-10-2's have hinged boilers?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 14, 2019 5:30 PM

daveklepper

Did any of the Sante Fe 2-10-10-2's have hinged boilers?

 

Santa Fe had some 2-6-6-2's with hinged boilers.  The ATSF 2-10-10-2's had conventional boilers, but relatively small fireboxes which made them poor steamers (Virginians's had large fireboxes, got good coal, and were stoker-fired).

 

Santa Fe 2-10-10-2

 

Compare to Virginian's much larger boiler below.  VGN's 2-10-10-2's were much more successful than the 1916 Triplex (2-8-8-4), though the Triplex performed reasonably well after it was cut down to a 2-8-8-0 (and a 2-8-0).

 

VGN 2-10-10-2

 For info on the two flexible boiler 2-6-6-2's:

https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=2-6-6-2&railroad=atsf#13787

 

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