Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, May 21, 2018 7:10 PM

It's time for another transcontinental journey on trains with the same name.  Leaving the east coast, this train was the premier run on its route, but the other train leaving for the west coast was a secondary run at best.  This trip was not actually possible because several years separated the two trains.  

The train name, railroads and routing, please. 

BTW - Atlantic Express/Pacific Express is not the answer.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:58 PM

National Limited?

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 3:27 PM

daveklepper

National Limited?

 

Nope, the National Limited name was never used on a western train.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:20 PM

How about the Columbian?  The B&O's train of that name was a pretty high ranking train on the Royal Blue route, later extended to Chicago (1941-1964) as the coach-only companion to the Capitol Limited.  Milwaukee's version served as the secondary Chicago-Seattle/Tacoma train off and on from the 1910s to the 1950s, specifically 1911-1930 and 1947-1955.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:24 PM

rcdrye

How about the Columbian?  The B&O's train of that name was a pretty high ranking train on the Royal Blue route, later extended to Chicago (1941-1964) as the coach-only companion to the Capitol Limited.  Milwaukee's version served as the secondary Chicago-Seattle/Tacoma train off and on from the 1910s to the 1950s, specifically 1911-1930 and 1947-1955.

 

Technically, one could have taken the Columbian cross country, especially when the Milwaukee Road version existed (1947-1955), but looking back to my original question, the eastern train was the premier run on that route, while the Columbian was second to the Capitol Limited.

The trains that utilized the name I'm looking for were separated by a war.

 

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, May 28, 2018 9:43 AM

ZephyrOverland

It's time for another transcontinental journey on trains with the same name.  Leaving the east coast, this train was the premier run on its route, but the other train leaving for the west coast was a secondary run at best.  This trip was not actually possible because several years separated the two trains.  

The train name, railroads and routing, please. 

BTW - Atlantic Express/Pacific Express is not the answer.

 

 

Clue - If you didn't want to wait several years between trains you could have gone north of the border and take a train with the name I'm looking for and do the transcontinental thing up there.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, May 28, 2018 12:04 PM

Well I must admit I never knew until today that the Continental Limited name was used south of the border, being CN's premier transcontinental train for many years.  

That name was first used on the West Shore Railroad's premier Weehauken, NJ to Chicago train, at least until WWI led to cutbacks (West Shore was of course owned by the NYC).

After the gap Union Pacific and CNW used the name for a secondary train from Chicago which split into Portland, San Francisco and Los Angeles sections at Green River and Ogden.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, May 28, 2018 10:05 PM

SD70Dude

Well I must admit I never knew until today that the Continental Limited name was used south of the border, being CN's premier transcontinental train for many years.  

That name was first used on the West Shore Railroad's premier Weehauken, NJ to Chicago train, at least until WWI led to cutbacks (West Shore was of course owned by the NYC).

After the gap Union Pacific and CNW used the name for a secondary train from Chicago which split into Portland, San Francisco and Los Angeles sections at Green River and Ogden.

 

Congrats, you got it!

The eastern Continental Limited was a West Shore and Wabash Weehauken-Chicago train with an additional St. Louis section that existed from about 1898 through late 1916. The Overland Route Continental Limited was a Chicago-Los Angeles/Portland train that operated through the 1920's. The train also handled San Francisco cars from the Pacific Limited when that train ran via the Milwaukee Road between Chicago and Omaha.

SD70Dude, the next question is yours.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:41 PM

The only through train on its route, this named passenger train carried much mail & express in addition to sleepers as it meandered along a "J" shaped route over 4 railroads.  

Its namesake probably would have made the same journey in a straight line.

Name the train and the 4 railroads it ran over.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 6:17 AM

The "Gull"?  Boston & Maine, Maine Central, Canadian Pacific, Canadian National.

Boston, Portland, Vanceboro/McAdam,St. John, Halifax.

Last regular non-RDC train from North Station until MBTA days.  MEC continued mail and express for a while after the "Gull" was dropped, but only from Portland.

Boston to Halifax is 407 air miles, 663 highway miles, 730 rail miles.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 11:59 AM

rcdrye

The "Gull"?  Boston & Maine, Maine Central, Canadian Pacific, Canadian National.

You got it, the next question is yours.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 4:02 PM

This small regional railroad's day and night trains' routes formed an inverted "Y" with a large city on each leg, none of them reached on the railroad's own rails.  Both legs involved equipment pooling. On one of the legs cars were picked up in an small city from a trains that were direct competitors, running a short distance over the same railroad that made up about half of the other leg.  On the same leg crews and locomotives ran through to the junction of the "Y".  On the other leg only locomotives were pooled and only on the night train, a practice that ended before the diesel era.  The portion of the route with cars from both legs finished up with the small railroad's crews running to the major city endpoint under a passenger-only trackage rights agreement, though in the last few years of steam the engine only ran to the edge of the city.  Name the small railroad, the railroad that made up part of both legs and the three major cities.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, June 07, 2018 6:54 AM

The Rutland, Montreal to both New York City and Boston.  The edge of the City was Montreal, and CN box-cab electric handled the Rutland's trains into Central Station the last few years.  Between New York and Troy, the Rutland's through cars were usually handled in the same trains as the competitor Delaware and Hudson on the New York Central.  Between Troy, NY and Mechanicsville Junction (?) trackage rights on the Boston and Maine were used, and at times this indeed even used B&M power from my understanding, although I did see Rutland power in Troy station.  The Boston and Maine was party to both the day and night trains, with equipment pooled with the Rutland's, on the Boston leg, these being B&M trains between Bellows Falls, VT and Boston.  The junction of the upside-down Y was Rutland, VT or nearby.  Montreal - New York cars were Rutland and New York Central, Montreal - Boston Rutland and Boston and Maine.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, June 07, 2018 6:19 PM

That's about as complete an answer as I could ask for.  On the New York leg B&M was used between Troy and North Bennington VT (B&M ownership actually ended at White Creek NY, about 1.5 miles away).  B&M and Rutland engines and crew ran between Troy and Rutland on about a 2/3 basis (2 Rutland to 1 B&M).  The Boston sections did not pool crews, but at least for a while in the steam era B&M engines ran through to Rutland on a trip lease basis, on the overnight Mount Royal only.  Apparently the daytime Green Mountain Flyer switched enough mail at Bellows Falls that the time cost of the engine change wasn't important.

Part of the pool agreement had Rutland buying four ex-Pere Marquette air conditioned coaches in 1946.  All Rutland passenger service ended with the 1953 strike.

CN's electric operation began in 1943 with the opening of Central Station in Montreal.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 10, 2018 3:52 AM

Three interurban operators used PCC cars.  Pacific Electric, Pittsburgh Railways, and one other.   Who was the third, what service used them, and what was unique about the car-body design different from any other PCCs?

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, June 10, 2018 8:18 AM

Illinois Terminal's eight double-enders were used in Granite City (IL) service from St. Louis.  450 and 451 (of 450-457) survive, and Market St. Railway has an ex-Muni car (1015) in a tributes paint job.  Phila. Suburban Transit had cars with PCC bodies that had non-PCC trucks and control systems.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 11, 2018 12:23 AM

And what was their peculiar feature of their body design?   For example, Pacific Electric had the only Peter Witt door arrangement on double-end PCC cars.  All other Peter Witt door arrangement PCCs were single-end.  (This is worldwide, not just North America.)   Similarly, Chicago, single-end PCCs, had the only three-doors on one side and estra width rear door for rear entrance.  So what is pecular about the IT cars?   And for added value, where are the two survivors?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, June 11, 2018 6:24 AM

IT cars had front doors only on each end - one door set per side.  450 is at the Ohio Railway Museum, 451 at Connecticut Trolley Museum in Warehouse point, where it still operates. 

Both 450 and 451 were borrowed from their museums to serve as supplemental cars on the Shaker Heights Rapid Transit between 1975 and 1979, before the new LRVs were delivered.

https://ceramembersblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/cera348.jpg

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 11, 2018 9:58 AM

That completes your answer, and I look forward to your question.  I assume that on Shaker they ran together in multiple during rush hours only as a two-car train.

Normal Shaker operation of PCCs on one line was three-car trains, two-car trains on the other, if my memory is correct.  I think Shaker had both PCCs built new for Shaker and others second-hand from the Twin Cities, with not much difference between them, since the Twin Cities cars were made MU.  But that was a long time ago, and I'm unsure about this memory.

And I guess you know that the two REd Arrow - Branford - now MUNI semi-PCCs, PCC-like bodies with MCB-style trucks and electro-mechanical control, are going to emerge from Brookfield as fully PCCs with electricals, electronics, and trucks identacle to the other Brookfield-rebuilt PCCs in San Francisco.  This means they will not be MU anymore.  Wonder if the Tomlinson couplers will be retained?

Branford has one St. Louis car now that will still represent the series in original form, but of course changed to standard gauge.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, June 11, 2018 3:04 PM

Shaker had Pullman-built MU PCCs, and ex-St. Louis and ex-Twin Cities cars built by St. Louis Car. Most, but not all of the secon-hand cars were converted to MU. All of the MU cars could train together, but they tended to be kept separate for whatever reason.  There are photos of 450 and 451 out there operating as single cars on SRT. For what it's worth they should have worked in a mixed consist with SRT cars unless the door controls were set up differently.

In MU on SHRT: http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/shrt/htm/usr_h_cle_shrt_pcc_it451_it450_warrenvillerd_19760529_jt_200.htm

Non-MU SHRT:

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/shrt/htm/usr_h_cle_shrt_pcc_it451_avalon_19760530_jt_314.htm

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 11, 2018 11:55 PM

Looking forward to your question.  Was it Shaker Blvd that had some 3-car trains and Van Aiken with only 2-car?  (All singles during off-peak, of course.)

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 6:49 PM

The loop at Warrensville Rd. on the Van Aken line was smaller than the Green Rd. loop.  At one time it was a "U", sort of an inverted wye. Even at that the line was allowed up to five Cleveland center entrance cars.  Both lines ran at least four car PCC trains at various times.

Five of the cars bought from Twin cities were never converted to MU. All 10 from St. Louis and the other 15 from Twin Cities were converted.

In the late 1940s there were still some "trolleys that met all the trains" in service in various parts of the country.  In one case the interurban that met steam trains to take passengers to and from the state's largest city was operated by a bus company.  Name the city, state and the railroad involved.  Bonus for the Bus company name.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, June 15, 2018 12:29 AM

Did not the bus comany buy the interurban with the intent to convert it to bus operation, but the was delayed by WWII?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, June 15, 2018 8:59 AM

daveklepper

Did not the bus comany buy the interurban with the intent to convert it to bus operation, but the was delayed by WWII?

 

It might have...

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 17, 2018 4:33 AM

For while, the west-of-Milwaukee, Wisconsin, interurban line was bought by a bus company, I think Kenosha Motor Coach, and connected wih a steam line that served Milwauked passengers only through this interurban connection.  Possibly the steam railroad wa the Chicaago Great Western?  And the interurban then was bought by Jay Meader (?) to become Speedrail with service ending some time after a tragic accident caused by failure to properly observe a red signal.

All this after WWII.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, June 17, 2018 2:32 PM

KMCL (Kenosha Motor Coach Lines) "bought" the interurban lines from TMERL&T in 1945 with the intention of abandoning them.  The tax break TMERL&T got was enough to justify a low sales price.  The Port Washington(-Sheboygan) and M-R-K (Milwaukee-Racine-Kenosha) were abandoned by 1948.  Speedrail leased KMCL equipment in 1949 to operate the Waukesha and Hales Corner lines, then bought its own. Speedrail operated the Hales Corner and Waukesha lines until 1951.

The steam trains were met at Waukesha.  The railroad was not the Chicago Great Western, but it did share stations with the CGW in Chicago and St. Paul.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, June 17, 2018 5:21 PM

Dave and All

Volume 2 of the "Milwaukee Color Pictoral", Volume 2, "The City of Milwaukee" has two or four pages of the Speed Rail accident. One of the founders of the long defunt "Minnesota Rail Fans Association" was killed in that accident.

Ed Burns

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 12:14 AM

Was it the SOO Line?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:29 AM

daveklepper

Was it the SOO Line?

 

It was even listed in the OG in 1948: Kenosha Motor Coach Lines (electric).  Your question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:51 AM

Easy one for you:  North Shore equipment occasionally did run through on The Milwaukee electric interurban lines in charter movements, particularly on the line to the north.  On occasion freight also ran through.  But I know of zero situations with the Milwaukee Electric equipment ran south on the North Shore, exept for one or two railfan excursions, and even then never into Howard Street or south on the CRT or CTA.  Why can I be assured of saying never?

The ex-Indiana RR car, ex CRANDIC, that is at Union, did make one or two fantirp runs on the North Shore (for a while equip;ment at Unions was stored on North Shore property), but again not  into Howard Street or south.

And ditto the Chicago RR Club's fantrip with open-platform office car Chief Illini, even further restricted where it ran.

You can also provide some information on the modificaion of some of the loger lasting wood interurban North Shore equipment related to this question.

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