Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:23 AM

Now you've mentioned the cities, look for the train name.

C&LE was formed in 1930. Predecessors Cincinnati Hamilton & Dayton and Lima-Toledo offered through service with Eastern Michigan-Toledo (Part of Detroit United) in the late 1920s.

A related line had a coach-parlor train (eastbound only) from Chicago to one of the cities that used the city's widely used nickname.  Part of the nickname is shared with the train I'm looking for.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:20 PM

Ohio was or is the Buckeye State, and Detroit the Motor City, but I cannot remembgeer the nickname for Cincinnati.  I know there is one, but it ewscapes me.  Maybe I can find it  on Wikapedia.

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Posted by RME on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:23 PM

I've always heard Cincinnati called the "Queen City"

[Some promoters tried calling it the 'City of Seven Hills' to get you to think of Rome, but it didn't seem to catch on.  Perhaps if they'd been in the Empire State that sobriquet would get better traction...]

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:44 PM

There is another "Queen City"--Charlotte, North Carolina, which was named for George II's wife, Princess Charlotte of Mecklinburg (Charlotte is the seat of Mecklinburg County)--and it is styled "The Queen City of the South." It is a bit older than Cincinnati.

Back to the topic.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:53 PM

I also found Queen City, West Queen, Seven Hils, and Porkopolis or Pork City.

I also know that the Michigan Central, NYCentral System, had a coach and parlor Motor City Express from Chicago to Detroit.

Youi did not state clearliythatthe oate-30's fleet was for the same railroad as the specific earliy 20's train.  So possibly the fleet is that of the UP and connenctions for City of --- everything from Selinaas to LA...    

so maybe theB&O or the Central-Big Foiur had a City of Seven Hills, and from Chicag fo Cincinnati was called the Seven Hills Limited or Express or Flyer or whatever. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:36 PM

The train name is a combo of both endpoint cities' nicknames.

Big Four and Michigan Central fielded the "Motor Queen" in 1929.  It is considered the prototype for NYC's Mercury fleet, along with some other semi-lightweight 1930s trains built by NYC out of commuter coaches - and even some late 1930s lightweight all-coach trains like the Trailblazer and the various Florida streamliners.  The Chicago-Detroit train was the "Motor City Special", which lasted until 1967 as a name train, though its schedule continued until at least 1971.  Go ahead with the next question, Dave.

Note that the C&LE/DUR "Red Devils" never ran directly against the "Motor Queen", but plenty of motorists did.

 

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Posted by K4sPRR on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:36 PM

The NYC Motor Queen.(?)

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:40 PM

Wow.  I wasn't expecting an answer while I was editing mine.  You gentlemen are free to determine the winner.  Wish I'd waited another minute.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:50 PM

If K4 wishes to ask the next, happy to have him do so.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 3:28 PM

Thanks Dave, lets stick with passenger trains in the 1920's and the midwest. This train originates at a large metropolitan area departing at such a time to insure early morning arrivals for specific midwest cities.  Traveling west at one location on its route it splits into two seperate trains to accomodate some of its intended patrons.  For its time this train was given a somewhat unique nickname in the same fashion as some trains being tagged "bankers specials".  One of its stops was responsible for this trains nickname, which ironically was tagged on its maiden voyage. Name the railroad, the actual train name, its nickname and the city responsible for the tag.

(First parts are easy, the last two may take some thinking.) 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:14 AM

TheC&O Sportsman, for Louisville and the Kentucky Derby and to Cincinnati with through cars to Chicago handled by the New York Central.  At the Eastern end, service splitting at Charlottesville, but running ont he same tracks to Gordonsville, to both Newport News for Norfolk and via an Orange entrance to Souithern tracks, then RF&P over the Long Bridge to Washington.

In my teenage days flying pumps Pacifics or Hudsons east of Charlottesvfille and Greenbriar  4-8-4's west of Charlottesville.   Comfortable reclining-seat, air-conditioned heavyweight six-wheel truck coaches, heavyweight Pullmans. and a lounge-obs for Pullman passengers only at the rear, a classic diner separating the coaches form the sleepers.  An RPO and combine up front. Alwaysclean and well-maintained, even during WWII.  Oftern late arriving in Washington because of congestion at Alexandria and north over the bridge.

I hope this is the one you want, but I am not certain, since I do not remember a nickname.

The FFV, the Fast Flying Virginian, might also qualify.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:00 AM

Sorry Dave, go a little more north.  Here's a clue, this particular train made its split at a city once known as the best location in the nation.  Good luck !

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:26 AM

I should have mentioned Detroit as a western destination for the Sportsman, with the C&O using the Michigan Central Station then the Fort Street Station, and then moved back to the Michigan Central Station.  This revolved on its control of the B&O and then merger.

Other train names for east-west service that denote occupations include the Scout for AT&SF, the Prairie Marksman (RR?) the Forty-Niner (C&NW-UP-SP), and possibly the IC's Land-o-Corn, which did split and served both Soux City and Omaha.

In the east wwe had the PRR's Admiral and General, wast-est trains, but with only one wwestern destination, and trains which were not east-west, like the Clamdigger, Senator, Congressional, the Broker.   Maybe I need a hint or am comopletely unfamiliar with the train and route.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:50 AM

Your inching your way there, Detroit is in the general area of the target city.  

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Posted by Samuel Johnston on Thursday, March 16, 2017 11:45 AM
People so far are missing Sedgewick Ave for the Putnam Division in The Bronx.
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 17, 2017 3:35 AM

Included in a appopriate posting earier.  well, Yankee Stadium is not very far, so should we look for ''The Ballplayer''?

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Posted by K4sPRR on Saturday, March 18, 2017 7:28 AM

K4sPRR

Thanks Dave, lets stick with passenger trains in the 1920's and the midwest. This train originates at a large metropolitan area departing at such a time to insure early morning arrivals for specific midwest cities.  Traveling west at one location on its route it splits into two seperate trains to accomodate some of its intended patrons.  For its time this train was given a somewhat unique nickname in the same fashion as some trains being tagged "bankers specials".  One of its stops was responsible for this trains nickname, which ironically was tagged on its maiden voyage. Name the railroad, the actual train name, its nickname and the city responsible for the tag.

(First parts are easy, the last two may take some thinking.) 

 

Don't give up Dave...clue "think Ohio".

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 19, 2017 6:04 AM

Was the Ann Arbor the railroad?   It had a line from Toledo, I think, to two Lake Michigan ports, and its one passenger train each way split to serve those two ports.  It did not touch Detoit.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 19, 2017 6:09 AM

Possibly the Erie had a train from Jersey City (NYCity Metropolitan area) to both Cleveland and Buffalo, which split at Hornell, and was nicknamed the Glassblower for its stop in Corning, NY, east of Hornell.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Monday, March 20, 2017 7:43 AM

Think, Ohio....New York Central.

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Posted by RME on Monday, March 20, 2017 12:04 PM

For the love of God, Montresor, it's a train like the Ohio State Limited that split in Cleveland, with one part going to Cincinnati and the other one almost surely to Toledo.  I have no idea what the nickname or the reason for it was, which is why I haven't said anything, but surely someone could have noted the obvious.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Monday, March 20, 2017 5:54 PM

In all fairness I think Dave was over thinking somewhat and overlooked the obvious.  So far, aided by clues, portions of the mystery solved; the NYC, Cleveland Ohio where the NYC split some of it passenger trains (ie: Mercury) and Toledo.  Still what was the train and nickname tagged to it.  (Think, Dave thousands of fans world wide are rooting for you !!!) 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 4:35 AM

The Empire State Express served both Detroit and Cleveland,splitting at Buffalo, (in its last years handled the Laurntian equipment to Albany-Renselaer as well); the Southwestern served both St. Louis and Cincinnati, splitting at Cleveland and possibly picking up a Cleveland nickname, but my memory slips on what that would that would be.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:17 AM

Aha!   The Ohio State Limited, the Buckeye, NY (and Boston) - Cincinnati, Toledo

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Posted by K4sPRR on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 8:56 AM

Right, the Ohio State Limited as RME also mentioned.  Its inagural nickname was due to its western destination in Ohio...your closing in on it.

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Posted by RME on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:17 AM

I have this sinking feeling that the NYC timetable from 1929 on p.36 of the 1979 Timetables volume (which had the Motor Queen of the previous question prominently displayed) may contain the required name ... but I don't have that material.  At least it isn't the "Royal Buckeye Flyer".

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Posted by K4sPRR on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:28 PM

Probably not found in TT's, this is more in line with the railroading "banker special" designations.  Clue: Toledo and its proximity to Detroit played a part in this train being split in Cleveland catering to certain patrons. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:11 PM

The autoworker?  The machinist? The assembly line?

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Posted by RME on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:21 PM

Probably rum-runners/bootleggers - Toledo was famous as a 'haven' for Detroit folks, and both Detroit and Toledo had relatively good 'lake' access to Canada.

But I have not been able to find definitive proof either of the nickname or any 'reputation' the Toledo-Cleveland section might have had to cater to those folks.

There were other trains that got the 'bootlegger' monicker: the southbound Montrealers (technically I suppose 'Washingtonians'; the original '20s version, not the trains Mike's father got re-established) had this sort of reputation, and I believe the Amtrak Vermonter was nicknamed 'the Boot' until comparatively recently.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:08 PM

daveklepper

The autoworker?  The machinist? The assembly line?

 

Congratulations Dave, close enough.  The Ohio State Limited mentioned in a NYC press release on 24 April 24 stated the Toledo connection was due to the "vast automobile industry located in that city".  It also stated "the train has already been nicknamed in the west as the "automobile special", the old appalation for fast trains of "banker special"....

Thought this one would be easier but I have to remind myself that for many of us who dive into the glamour of railroad history, territorial considerations do apply.  So Dave and RME (appropriate thoughts on bootleggers), nice piece of work...next question please (Dave or RME have the floor.).

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