Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 21, 2009 2:31 PM

In its electric freight days, I wonder if the CSS&SB had any dual-power trolley and battery locomotives similar to the North Shore's, except of course of 1500V DC instead of 600V and pans instead of poles.  If they, they were probably steeple cabs, probably built by GE, probably built around 1929.  Just a guess.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:45 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
What locomotive was the last one to be ordered and delivered new to South Shore prior to the GP38-2's?

Ordered from the manufacture new eliminates the GP7s from FEC & C&O.  Sooo, how about SW8 #206?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, June 22, 2009 6:36 AM

The SW8 was second-hand from Colorado & Wyoming.  South Shore didn't have any dual-powers, but daveklepper has the right timeframe.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, June 22, 2009 10:53 PM

 The 14 GE Steeple cabs, #1001-#1014.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:34 AM

Texas Zepher

 The 14 GE Steeple cabs, #1001-#1014.

You're on the mark, but they weren't all GE's and they weren't one order.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:03 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Texas Zepher
The 14 GE Steeple cabs, #1001-#1014.
You're on the mark, but they weren't all GE's and they weren't one order.

Well #1011-#1014 were sold in 1965, so I can guess if they sold them in the same order they purchased them that would have been the last batch.   And the other company that built them was Baldwin/Westinghouse.  Guesswork based upon the limited info I have on this sort of thing.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:45 AM

Close enough, 1013 shows the latest build date of 11/1930 so I'll accept Texas Zephyr as the winner.  As an aside, 1005-1006 (Mike & Ike) were originally built for Cuba and were appreciably lighter than the other steeplecabs.  They were sold in 1941 when South Shore picked up the former IC steeplecabs.

Texas Zephyr, your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:00 PM

 The westbound California Zephyr was taken over from the CB&Q by the D&RGW at Denver Union Station.  It ran on trackage of four different railroads before reaching the Moffat Tunnel.  Name them.  What was the name of the junction where the Zephyr got to home rails.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, June 26, 2009 4:56 AM

Denver Terminal Railway, Denver & Salt Lake, D&RGW. As to the fourth road I'll guess it was the Colorado & Southern.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, June 26, 2009 6:46 PM

 Good guess.  You have three of the four, but I am not saying which are which to give others a chance.  Also there is the name of the junction..  

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:50 AM

Texas Zepher

 Good guess.  You have three of the four, but I am not saying which are which to give others a chance.  Also there is the name of the junction..  

  

I think the junction point where D&RGW rails were reached was at Orestod.

Mark

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:23 PM

KCSfan

Texas Zepher

 Good guess.  You have three of the four, but I am not saying which are which to give others a chance.  Also there is the name of the junction.. 
 
I think the junction point where D&RGW rails were reached was at Orestod.

That is good thinking however the California Zephyr didn't start until 1949 two years after the D&SL merger.

Ok gang, here is the deal.  I am leaving out of town for a week.  So continue to look for the answers but KCSfan go ahead and ask the next question.  We will complete this one when I return.

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:26 AM

Texas Zepher

KCSfan

Texas Zepher

 Good guess.  You have three of the four, but I am not saying which are which to give others a chance.  Also there is the name of the junction.. 
 
I think the junction point where D&RGW rails were reached was at Orestod.

That is good thinking however the California Zephyr didn't start until 1949 two years after the D&SL merger.

Ok gang, here is the deal.  I am leaving out of town for a week.  So continue to look for the answers but KCSfan go ahead and ask the next question.  We will complete this one when I return.

I had thought the CZ was inaugurated earlier but 1949 definitely knocks the D&SL out of the mix and causes me to revise my earlier replies. I've only a limited knowledge of the railscape in the immediate Denver area but I'd guess that the Zephyr ran for a short distance over the C&S and UP before reaching the rails of the Rio Grande. That makes my revised answer Denver Terminal Ry., C&S, UP and D&RGW.

Prior to 1947 the junction of the D&SL and D&RGW was Orestod but during the CZ era the point where the D&RGW was reached had to be much closer to Denver. Public timetables of the Rio Grande list the first three stations west of Denver and their distance from Union Station as Zuni (4 mi.), Ralston (7 mi.) and Leyden Jct. (12 mi.). However, none of these are shown in the timetables of either the C&S or UP which leads me to believe the junction of the C&S or UP with the D&RGW was somewhere between Denver proper and Zuni. I don't have a Rio Grande ETT or detailed map of this area which I'd need to pin point the exact location of this jucntion point.

As soon as I think of another question to ask I'll post it in a later reply.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:14 AM

On to the next question. What was the name of the largest interurban depot in the US and how many tracks were ther under its train shed?

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 28, 2009 3:12 PM

Indianapolis, Twelve   (reduced in later years as buses moved in)   remained as bus terminal for a while after Indiana RR ran its last interurban in January 1941.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:15 PM

KCSfan

Prior to 1947 the junction of the D&SL and D&RGW was Orestod but during the CZ era the point where the D&RGW was reached had to be much closer to Denver. Public timetables of the Rio Grande list the first three stations west of Denver and their distance from Union Station as Zuni (4 mi.), Ralston (7 mi.) and Leyden Jct. (12 mi.). However, none of these are shown in the timetables of either the C&S or UP which leads me to believe the junction of the C&S or UP with the D&RGW was somewhere between Denver proper and Zuni. I don't have a Rio Grande ETT or detailed map of this area which I'd need to pin point the exact location of this jucntion point.

I don't have my 1971 RG TT handy, but the Altamont Press Rocky Mountain Region TT #7 shows Prospect Jct., (1.0 miles out from Denver Union) and C & S Jct. (4.8 miles out). I believe that C & S Jct. is where the D&SL really began.

Johnny

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:40 PM

daveklepper

Indianapolis, Twelve   (reduced in later years as buses moved in)   remained as bus terminal for a while after Indiana RR ran its last interurban in January 1941.

Right city Dave, now what was the name of the station building. 12 is not the correct number of tracks. There were fewer than that.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:13 PM

KCSfan

daveklepper

Indianapolis, Twelve   (reduced in later years as buses moved in)   remained as bus terminal for a while after Indiana RR ran its last interurban in January 1941.

Right city Dave, now what was the name of the station building. 12 is not the correct number of tracks. There were fewer than that.

Mark

 

 

Well, if twelve is too many tracks, I'll guess six.  -  a.s.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 29, 2009 4:59 AM

A photograph shows seven tracks with one obviously hidden and out of sight, so eight must be the correct answer.  The building was the Indianapolis Traction Terminal Building and the train shed the Indianapolis Traction Terminal Trainshed.   Both they and the tracks were owned by the local street railway company, which did not route any cars in the trainshed, but whose tracks all the companies used.   The company was probably called Indianapolis Railways or Indianapolis Railway and Terminal Company.  The shed continued to be used as a bus terminal until sometime after WWII, when the State bought all the property for expansion of its offices, with the building replaced by a state building and shed area a parking lot, for a while.   The buses moved into a new Greyhound Terminal.

 

Back to Denver.   The Denver and Salt Lake, later the D&RGW,  began at Prospect Junction.  Mention has been made of use of Denver Union Terminal, Union Pacific, and Colorado Southern trackage/   If there was a fourth railroad, I guess it would have been the CB&Q as distinct from its C&S subsidiary. 

The D&SL used its own Denver Terminal until the Orested-Dotsero cutoff was built and the railroad became a D&RGW subsidiary, many years before actual merger.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, June 29, 2009 2:54 PM

daveklepper

A photograph shows seven tracks with one obviously hidden and out of sight, so eight must be the correct answer.  The building was the Indianapolis Traction Terminal Building and the train shed the Indianapolis Traction Terminal Trainshed.   Both they and the tracks were owned by the local street railway company, which did not route any cars in the trainshed, but whose tracks all the companies used.   The company was probably called Indianapolis Railways or Indianapolis Railway and Terminal Company.  The shed continued to be used as a bus terminal until sometime after WWII, when the State bought all the property for expansion of its offices, with the building replaced by a state building and shed area a parking lot, for a while.   The buses moved into a new Greyhound Terminal.

Dave,

Traction Terminal is the correct answer I was looking for. Actually there were nine tracks under the trainshed at Indianapolis. Your turn to ask the next question.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:13 AM

The letterhead probably did include the word Indianapolis, but the citizens of the city would not need to use the first part of the name.   Like there are lots of Pennsylvania Stations (including Newark Delaware's and Newark New Jersey's), but in New York City, one refers only to "Pennsylvania Station."

(Actually, I suspect in Newark, New Jersey, they still refer to it as Pennsylvania Station, but in Newark, Delaware, as the Amtrak station.)

 

My question:  In New York City, counting all five boroughs, there were seven electric railroads that were, in one way or another, part of the national freight railway system.   All but one regularly used electric power from overhead wire and/or third rail for freight.  (With other power as well, of course!)  What were the names of the seven railroads and which one used electric power for its regular freight only in emergencies if ever.   Time frame: 1929-1933.

I had to add the only in emergencies, because obviously in an emergency situation a freight car or two can be moved by a passenger vehicle even if adapter couplers need ot be secured.

 

There may be an eighth.   I think I may have seen a freight locomotive photo of this railroad, but I am not sure, and in any case, it could easily borrow an electric or steam locomotive when required from a specific one of the more obvious railroads (there are four obvious ones, of course!).   I just don't recall any mention of freight sidings or team tracks on this eighth.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, July 1, 2009 8:48 AM

I'll start it off:  PRR, NYC, NH, LIRR, South Brooklyn, New York Westchester & Boston, Harlem Transfer (DL&W), and Staten Island Rapid Transit (emergency only).

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 2, 2009 3:58 AM

You only missed one.   Harlem transfer had an oil electric, not third rail or overhead wire.   You were absolutely correct about SIRT.   The frieght service was provided by B&O steam and then diesel.   I remember B&O camelbacks being used there, as youngster, before and during WWII.   The one I wonder about freight sidings was the NYW&B.   Did you know of any freight sidings or team tracks?  If so, where were they?    Of course, it was always possible that a NYNH&H freight could have been rerouted over the NYW&B, since there were track connections at both Willis Avenue, near Oak Point Yard, and at Portchester.   Instead of Harlem Transfer, there was Bsuh Terminal, with trolley wire and one or two of it own freight motors.   At one point, an ERA fantrip used some Brooklyn elevated gate cars, pulled by a South Brooklyn steeplecab, to ride over the Bush Terminal trackage, which connected both with South Brooklyn's own tracks and regular Brooklyn streetcar tracks.

 

For those that don't know, the South Brooklyn Railroad is the freight subisidiary, formerly of the BMT and now of the NYCity Tranist Authority.   I believe it still exists to serve as the terminating switching carrier for delivery of new subway cars, and thus give the TA a slight break on shipping costs.  I think other business has dried up.   Its operations were once very extensive, with the old Culver Line surface right-of-way, and the streetcar line on MacDonald Avenue, its main line, but there were freight sidings scattered all over the Brooklyn streetcar network which it served, as well as two on the Sea Beach subway line.   It handled freightcars on streetcar, elevated, and subway trackage, including occasional moves inside the Fourth Avenue subway (R adn N, today) which has highe clearances than other New York subway lines.    YOUR QUESTION

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, July 2, 2009 10:12 AM

Alco built three variations of its flatnose carbody design.  Name the countries in which at least two of these variations were operated.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, July 31, 2009 5:34 AM

 

Since nobody seems to come up with an answer, perhaps you had better educate us and ask another question?
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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, July 31, 2009 6:11 AM

Overlooked the question but would guess two of the countries to be Australia and India that operated those type alcos.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 7, 2009 4:55 AM

Can we have a definitive answer andanother question, please?

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Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, August 8, 2009 1:00 PM

Dave

I will throw aquestion out there since know one wants to acknowledge your quert.

What was the longest passenger train route in the United States a complete train movement not just through cars?

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, August 8, 2009 3:45 PM

passengerfan

What was the longest passenger train route in the United States a complete train movement not just through cars?

Al - in - Stockton

The San Francisco Chief (2547 miles) had the longest route between Chicago and the West Coast, besting the California Zephyr by 19 miles.

Johnny

Johnny

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