Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:39 PM

Al,

If taking the N&W you'd change at Bluefield to the Pochahontas for the trip to Cincy. The Big Four's James Whitcomb Riley would be the train to take from Cincy to Chicago. On the L&N you'd change at Corbin to the Southland which you'd stay on all the way to Chicago.

My only question is did the L&N still have passenger service on the Pineville - Norton branch in 1953? It was freight only by the summer of 1954.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:56 PM

KCSfan

Al,

If taking the N&W you'd change at Bluefield to the Pochahontas for the trip to Cincy. The Big Four's James Whitcomb Riley would be the train to take from Cincy to Chicago. On the L&N you'd change at Corbin to the Southland which you'd stay on all the way to Chicago.

My only question is did the L&N still have passenger service on the Pineville - Norton branch in 1953? It was freight only by the summer of 1954 [emphasis added]. 

Mark

Mark, you are SO close to answering all the questions.   Re: Trip using L&N -- give me some idea of what route or routes the Cincy - Chi leg took, and over which systems.  Are you sure there was no change of coaches in Cincy? 

I had thought I was okay for 1953 and the Corbin connection at the L&N, but it would take me a while to dig out my 1953 O.G.R.  Anyone out there want to help?  -  allen 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 07, 2009 11:45 PM

al-in-chgo

KCSfan

Al,

If taking the N&W you'd change at Bluefield to the Pochahontas for the trip to Cincy. The Big Four's James Whitcomb Riley would be the train to take from Cincy to Chicago. On the L&N you'd change at Corbin to the Southland which you'd stay on all the way to Chicago.

My only question is did the L&N still have passenger service on the Pineville - Norton branch in 1953? It was freight only by the summer of 1954 [emphasis added]. 

Mark

Mark, you are SO close to answering all the questions.   Re: Trip using L&N -- give me some idea of what route or routes the Cincy - Chi leg took, and over which systems.  Are you sure there was no change of coaches in Cincy? 

I had thought I was okay for 1953 and the Corbin connection at the L&N, but it would take me a while to dig out my 1953 O.G.R.  Anyone out there want to help?  -  allen 

al-in-chgo

Al,

The Southland's route between Cincy - Chi was over the PRR via Richmond and Logansport. While the Southland's sleepers ran through from Florida to Chicago I think you are right about coach passengers having to change cars at Cincy.  I believe the ACL/L&N coaches carried on the Southland ran only as far north as Cincy and PRR coaches ran from there to Chi.

Norton was at the end of an L&N branch from Pineville where it conected with the Corbin - Lynch line. If you have a '53 OG you might want to check if there was still passenger service to Norton. Even if there was the trip wuld have required a change at Pineville to the train for Corbin.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, March 08, 2009 4:38 PM

KCSfan

Norton was at the end of an L&N branch from Pineville where it conected with the Corbin - Lynch line. If you have a '53 OG you might want to check if there was still passenger service to Norton. Even if there was the trip wuld have required a change at Pineville to the train for Corbin.

L&N timetable 4/27/52 shows #12 Norton to Pineville and #22 Lynch-Pineville-Corbin. L&N timetable 9/28/52 shows #12 Norton to Cumberland Gap, which is 47miles from Pineville, a long walk or taxi ride. 4/27/52 TT indicates all Southland coach passengers change in Cincinnati. L&N schedules show only PRR & B&O connections in Cincinnati. Of course, you could specify NYC routing, but NYC might not hold for L&N connections, whereas PRR & B&O would, since there were through sleepers on the L&N train.

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:32 PM

Deggesty

KCSfan

Norton was at the end of an L&N branch from Pineville where it conected with the Corbin - Lynch line. If you have a '53 OG you might want to check if there was still passenger service to Norton. Even if there was the trip wuld have required a change at Pineville to the train for Corbin.

L&N timetable 4/27/52 shows #12 Norton to Pineville and #22 Lynch-Pineville-Corbin. L&N timetable 9/28/52 shows #12 Norton to Cumberland Gap, which is 47miles from Pineville, a long walk or taxi ride. 4/27/52 TT indicates all Southland coach passengers change in Cincinnati. L&N schedules show only PRR & B&O connections in Cincinnati. Of course, you could specify NYC routing, but NYC might not hold for L&N connections, whereas PRR & B&O would, since there were through sleepers on the L&N train.

Is my face red!  After hauling out and perusing my Jan. 1953 Off. Guide of the Rwys., it seems the only L&N out of Norton was just as you said, going only to Cumberland Gap (one station PAST Harrogate, TN BTW).  So appparently the Chi-bound traveler of that era could go from Lynch or Harlan or Pineville (with many intermediate stations) and then have a convenent change to The Southland at Corbin, but the Norton bound train,as stated above, missed that route by many, many miles. Apparently a thru trip was possible just a year earlier, though.  It was still possible to take No. 6 from Norton to Bluefield, WV with a convenient change to the WB Pocohontas.  

I'll award KCSFan first refusal on asking the next question, since he answered it all except for voicing some (justified) skepticism about  Norton - Corbin L&N thru travel in 1953.  Johnny, you know you nailed it so if KCS doesn't care to post the next question, consider it yours.

Thanks to all!  - allen

 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:59 PM

Nice pictures, Mike. Now, which road used which side of the station in Norton? As long as the Interstate had passenger service into Norton, it used the same station that the L&N and N&W used, running a train through Norton on its way between Stonega and Glamorgan (June, 1916 Guide).  This train also stopped at the union station in Appalachia.

The Redbird was the PRR's morning train between Chicago and Cincinnati; the Union was the mid-afternoon train.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:51 PM

Johnny,

I don't have a question handy so you go ahead and ask the next one.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, March 09, 2009 10:43 AM

Johnny hasn't posted a question yet and since one popped into my mind I'll go ahead and take a turn.

What paper mill shortline railroad ran a passenger train complete with reclining seat coaches and a sleeping car into the mid-1950's? What was the route of this train, and the other railroads and trains that carried the sleeper to its final destination?

Mark 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:50 PM

KCSfan
What paper mill shortline railroad ran a passenger train complete with reclining seat coaches and a sleeping car into the mid-1950's? What was the route of this train, and the other railroads and trains that carried the sleeper to its final destination?

Mark can you give us a hint, perhaps the state that the shortline was in?

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:24 PM

Johnny,

I'll tell you that it was in the south and a big paper mill owned by its parent company was its principal customer.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:42 PM

KCSfan

Johnny,

I'll tell you that it was in the south and a big paper mill owned by its parent company was its principal customer.

Mark

Just a guess:  Bowater?  

 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:20 PM

No cigar, Al. Not Bowater.

Mark

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:43 PM

KCSfan

No cigar, Al. Not Bowater.

Mark

Georgia-Pacific?  At least it SOUNDS like it could be a RR company.  -  a.s.

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:19 PM

Al, you're not warm yet but keep guessing.

Mark

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:05 PM

KCSfan
What paper mill shortline railroad ran a passenger train complete with reclining seat coaches and a sleeping car into the mid-1950's? What was the route of this train, and the other railroads and trains that carried the sleeper to its final destination?

Guess:

Aberdeen & Rockfish Railroad?

Passenger Train ran from Aberdeen to Fayetteville until 1954.

Can't find anything about a sleeper carried further..... 

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:56 PM

Texas Zepher

Aberdeen & Rockfish Railroad?

Passenger Train ran from Aberdeen to Fayetteville until 1954.

Can't find anything about a sleeper carried further..... 

Sorry TZ but that's not the road. The length of this through Pullman route was 372 miles but coach passengers riding that entire distance had to wake up in the wee hours of the morning and change cars and trains.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:59 PM

Looks like a hint's in order.

The papermill railroad that handled this consist was the southernmost leg of the entire route and was an interstate RR with one terminal in one state and its other in a neighboring state.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:56 PM

KCSfan
The papermill railroad that handled this consist was the southernmost leg of the entire route and was an interstate RR with one terminal in one state and its other in a neighboring state.

I never thought of the Atlanta & St. Andrews Bay as being a paper mill road, but the Atlanta-Panama City sleeper that the CG carried on the Southland between Atlanta and Albany and on 7 & 8 between Albany and Dothan before turning the car over to/taking the car from the A&StAB #1/#4 fits the bill.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:02 PM

Johnny,

Light your cigar and shoot us another question. Given your knowledge of out of the way Pullman routes I wondered how long it would take you to answer this question. The Bay Line and the trains are all correct. The A&StAB was owned by International Paper for a number of years and their mill at Panama City was the roads biggest shipper. In the June '54 OG the sleeper is listed as 2-Comp, 1-DR, 10-Sec. which seems a rather unusual car for such an obscure route. I'll bet the Drawing Room was occupied by the porter most nights.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:39 PM

KCSfan
Light your cigar and shoot us another question.

Well, Mark, your asking about a papermill road threw me until the last clue. I at last thought of the A&StAB, which with, the CG, had operated that line (I wish I had been able to take it).

In the fifties, there were still many heavyweight sleeper lines in operation, and by the mid-sixties, only one was left; it, too, was a 10-1-2 line.

This line ran interstate, overnight, between a metropolis and a much smaller city. Except for the last forty miles, it ran in a name train. Name the two end points, the name train, and, for extra credit, its motive power into the fifties for the last forty miles.

Johnny

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:53 PM

OK, WAG time:  The sleeper was on the train THE BLACK HAWK, Chicago to Iowa Falls.  It was IC from Chicago to Waterloo, IA. 

I have no idea about the motive power on the last leg (the un-named train from Waterloo to Iowa Falls) but from the way you've phrased it, I would guess it was a steam engine.   -   a.s. 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:05 PM

al-in-chgo

OK, WAG time:  The sleeper was on the train THE BLACK HAWK, Chicago to Iowa Falls.  It was IC from Chicago to Waterloo, IA. 

I have no idea about the motive power on the last leg (the un-named train from Waterloo to Iowa Falls) but from the way you've phrased it, I would guess it was a steam engine.   -   a.s. 

 

Sorry, Al, you have to roll your own cigar this time. The car ran on just one road. The Black Hawk was the Q's overnight train between your town and the Twin Cities. Were you thinking of the Hawkeye? No, it was not a steam engine.

Johnny

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, March 13, 2009 1:16 PM

Johnny,

The Green Bay to Chicago sleeper which ran in the CNW's Ashland Ltd. This is just a guess however. My wife and I rode this car from Appleton to Chicago in 1960 or 61 but I don't know if it was still running by the mid sixties,  

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, March 13, 2009 5:46 PM

Deggesty
This line ran interstate

Did my keyboard ever throw you all off! I meant to write intrastate, but somewhere between my brain and the page, it was transmuted, and I did not catch the error before posting. I'm sorry. Perhaps the right description will make it easier. I'll even throw in another clue--Dave Morgan wrote about riding this line.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:11 PM

Johnny,

I'm going to have to give up for the time being. I don't have a mid 60's OG so I'd be just guessing, Perhaps with the aid of another hint or two I'll be able to narrow it down and give an intelligent answer.

Mark

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Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:22 PM

I am guessing the sleeper operated by the NP between Seattle and Walla Walla, Wa. Operated in the Mainstreeter between Seattle and Pasco and the NP used a little 4-6-0 for power in the early 1950s later a Baldwin diesel roadswitcher with steam generator was the power. The station still stands in Walla Walla and a observation sits outside the station and the station and car are all part of a beautiful upscale restaurant.

Al - in - Stockton

PS took the day off and went to Winterail. Several book authors there so got some books autographed. Great show as usual.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:43 PM

passengerfan

I am guessing the sleeper operated by the NP between Seattle and Walla Walla, Wa. Operated in the Mainstreeter between Seattle and Pasco and the NP used a little 4-6-0 for power in the early 1950s later a Baldwin diesel roadswitcher with steam generator was the power. The station still stands in Walla Walla and a observation sits outside the station and the station and car are all part of a beautiful upscale restaurant.

Al - in - Stockton

PS took the day off and went to Winterail. Several book authors there so got some books autographed. Great show as usual.

Al, this would be a good guess if it were so, but you are about as far away from the operation as anyone could be. I don't have a sixties Guide down here to check as to when yours was discontinued.

Johnny

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:16 PM

Johnny, the word metropolis, New York is definitely that. A sleeper to Niagara Falls?

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