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Please help me identify this wheel...

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Please help me identify this wheel...
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 2, 2007 12:55 PM

This recently came into my possesion and I would appreciate any information about its history. Thank you, btw nice site

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, July 3, 2007 1:21 AM

Whoa and woe...

Although there might be someone in this world that will look at it and say who the mfg was and what model number the wheel is, I rather doubt that will occur.

If you can find some sort of engraved numbers or names on it someplace then you could improve your chances a wee bit.  But given the amount of rust, I doubt if you will find anything ledgeble.

The rim appears to be concave which implies that it might have had a tire around it.  That leads me to believe it is from a child's tricycle.

What diameter is it?  Take more photos of it at different angles and include a ruler next to it to give an indication of the size.  That "MIGHT" jog someone's memory as to what it is, but I still think it is doubtful you will find any information about it.

Barring someone recognizing it due to some really rare configuration of some part of it (which "I" certainly don't see), the best "History" I think you can get is that it appears to have gotten wet several times in the past and is now rusty.

Sorry.

 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 3, 2007 8:32 PM
Thank you for the reply Semper Vaporo.I was beginning to think i was in a wrong forum lol..Anyways i do know it is a railroad wheel b/c it was dug out of the ground at a former railyard,it has a lip on one side and not the other(look at photo closely though i will post a better one when i have the chance).It stands 32inc.tall where the bead/lip is and an inch or two less on the other side of wheel.It has 12 metal spokes about an inch in diameter and weighs in at 150lbs so that rules out tricycle.I have been working for ViaRail for 22yrs and KNOW it is related to the railroad.Thanxs for your help and hope others chime in..
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 3, 2007 8:34 PM
I forgot to mention that it has a broken axle shaft/rod  about 1 and 1/2 inches still stuck in the hub(see pic).Hope that helps a little..t/y 
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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, July 3, 2007 11:47 PM

Verify that there is not a missing part off the opposite side from the flange such that a circular "wall" could be attached to hold a tire on the rim.

Assumming that it is truely a flanged wheel, I can't see it being hefty enough to be from a full sized railroad car.  Except MAYBE from some very early era (pre 1840's???).  Those spokes are not big enough nor do they appear to be attached well enough to support the rough service of a railroad.

Maybe it is from some sort of baggage cart that ran on rails between the yard and a warehouse?

You might post photos on the Chaski Machinist board
(http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/
to see if someone over there has any wild ideas

Finding it in a railyard is not sufficient proof that it was a railroad purposed wheel.  It could have fallen there due to an accident, either on its way to its intended purpose or on its way to the scrap yard after its purpose had been ended.

Does the wheel rotate around the axle sticking out (or maybe once upon a time it "DID") or is the axle rigid to the hub and it had to have rotated in external bearings of some sort?  The size of that axle is also too small for it to have been for full sized railroad service out on the line... again suggesting a baggage cart sized vehicle.

Does the "tread" of the wheel, that part that is (nearly) parallel to the axle just inside the diameter of the flange, have any "taper" to it?  Or is it just a flat tread?  (It may be too rusty to tell.)  The taper would be such that the diameter away from the flange is maybe 1/2 inch smaller than the diameter nearer the flange.  Is there a gentle curve or "fillet" between the tread and the flange?  A true RR wheel will have both Taper and the fillet.

"150 pounds, so that rules out tricycle."  Depends... just what size kids used to live around there?  Okay, probably not.  I just could not tell the size from the photo... it might have been only 8 inches or so.

Again, if you could find any P/Ns or embossed names on it, that would help a lot (but by no means be absolutely worthwhile).  Look all around the rim of the outer wheel part, both on the "sides" and the inner curve.  Also look all around the side and rim of the hub.

Go at it with a soft brush first to remove dirt (takes a really long time, but anything stiffer will scratch away any engraving that might be there), then go at it with a dental pick, gently scraping all around to look for letter/number/symbol shaped depressions or raised areas.  If you find a "part number", I'd bet it is not older than, oh say the 1920's or 30's.  A company name or symbol could put it anywhere from the mid 1800's to last week, until you can find what happened to that company.

But as rusty as it appears, I really doubt if you will find anything at all.

Does it look like the hub comes apart?  How are the spokes attached?  Can you see the ends of the spokes through the wheel tread?

Tis a mystery to be sure and can drive a fellow nutz (I know, I have my own mystery I have been working on for YEARS... how do think I got the way I am!)  Be advised, you may have to "make up" a lot of "plausible" reasons for its existance and let it go at that.

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, July 4, 2007 12:40 PM

Could it be a wheel from a velocipede or a handcar or pushcar?

Wayne

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, July 4, 2007 2:54 PM
My thoughts, too, Doc.  Maybe one of those tricycle track inspection cars?  The ones with the outrigger lone wheel.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 4, 2007 3:43 PM

 

Where was the Wheel Found?

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 4, 2007 8:40 PM
Man you boys know your stuff.I will post more pics in tthe next few days.
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Posted by train18393 on Saturday, July 7, 2007 2:47 AM

For some reason the picture does not come up on my work computer, so I am saying this blind. Reading the various responses I am going to go out on a limb here and ask if it could be a wheel used on a overhead belt drive from a machine shop? Just a thought...

 

Paul

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 8, 2007 11:02 AM

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, July 9, 2007 3:06 AM

The photos are sure tantalizing.

It does appear to be a tapered tread and a true flange so it is probably from a "railed" vehicle.  A closeup photo across the top in line with the direction it would roll would help prove that.

Probably too heavy for a MOW car (the kind where two men pumped on a teeter-totter handle to propel it down the track.  Those were made as light as possible so they could be removed from the track easily... at 150lbs each for 4 wheels makes for at least 600lbs for wheels on a car, too heavy for one or two people to lift on and off the rails!  Even a 3 wheel track cycle probably would not have 150lb wheels.

I agree that it is probably from a small cart or car for moving small amounts of bulk material short distances, like a freight cart, coal mine car, icehouse cart, etc.

The "axle" stub appears to be pointed slightly... right?  Closer to the hub there appear to me to be a couple of square nuts tightened against each other, although that might just be due to camera angle and rust.  What is on the other side of the hub? Turn the wheel around for a photo and put a yardstick next to the wheel.

With a flange I doubt if it was from a shop power "line shaft".  Those would be a wheel with a slightly crowned tread surface to make a leather belt self center on the wheel.  I also doubt if it is one half of a pully.

 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by spikejones52002 on Monday, July 9, 2007 6:26 AM

The flange looks to deep to ride on rails.

I would look into farm Tractors.

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 9, 2007 9:54 PM

That is quite a find.  I look for old railroad iron artifacts with a metal detector, and I can tell you that if I dug up that wheel, I would consider it a very good day.  Considering that it is an open spoke construction and not a massive solid cast wheel, the fact that it manages to weigh 150 pounds suggests that it must have some serious load capacity. 

As others have suggested, I think it is too heavy for section cars, velocipedes, etc.  Perhaps it could be from some type of material transport cart used within the shop complex, but those carts travel slowly, and thus the wheels can be of a small diameter.  A smaller diameter wheel would also allow the deck to be lower, which would seem to be an advantage in many such material moving carts.  So I would conclude that the larger diameter (what is it maybe 24 inches?) might indicate a higher speed application such as an actual railroad.

Am I correct in assuming that there is piece of the axle solidly attached to that hub?  Is there any indication that the axle was cut or broken off?  If the wheel is from actual railroad rolling stock or even some type of locomotive, the deep flange suggests an exaggerated purpose in preventing derailments.  This in turn suggests a very early date of origin when track was more primitive and the simpler rolling stock suspension (if any) found it difficult to comply with poor track.

I don't know how far back in history the railroad at the site goes, but a wheel like that, at least somewhat, suggests pre-1850 to me.

I would resist any temptation to power wire brush or sand blast it.  It looks like it has that lose rust from a high oxidization activity in some soils such as those that contain cinders.  Some of that will fall off, but that oxidization will stabilize now that you have removed it from that soil.     

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:53 AM
Just a thought. Could the wheel be from a doodlebug/railcar (a Canadian version of the Galloping Geese)?
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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Monday, August 27, 2007 4:23 PM

Take a look at this thread from the MyLargeScale forum about a "Light Inspection Car"

http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=48257

Not exactly like your wheel, but very "spindlely" type of spokes.

 

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by arkansasrailfan on Friday, August 31, 2007 8:38 PM
Remember: you might have to count the axle too. Waiit, I think I got it!!! It might be from an auto that was converted to ride track instead of road!! It might be from a early hi-rail vehicle from the 20s. My RR club owns a Oldmoblie station wagon (1950s) with railrod wheels instead of tires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EUREKA !!!! (i found it!- Greek)
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 2, 2007 5:56 PM
A wheel from an automotive inspection car might be a possibility.  It is way too big and heavy for a velocipede or similar hand car.  That wheel weighs 150 pounds.  The orginal poster would need to privide more information about the site of the find and the history of the railroad there in order to consider all of the possibilities. 
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Posted by arkansasrailfan on Friday, September 7, 2007 7:34 PM
Well, that what I said, an auto that rides on track. you're just basicly saying what i'm saying, correct?
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Posted by Eriediamond on Friday, September 7, 2007 11:53 PM
I found a picture of what I think this wheel is from or something similar to the picture. I don't know how to get picture here so the best I can offer is to "Google" tom thumb locomotive and click on the history of tom thumb and peter cooper and you will find what your wheel came from or close to it. Ken  P. S. Also some early horse drawn trollies had wheels similar to this also.
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Posted by BATMAN on Saturday, September 8, 2007 12:18 AM
How about a wheel from a horse drawn streetcar that ran on rails?

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 8, 2007 11:17 AM

 wyomingrailfan wrote:
Well, that what I said, an auto that rides on track. you're just basicly saying what i'm saying, correct?

Yes I am agreeing with your suggestion that it is from an automobile with railroad wheels, which were sometimes created for use as inspection cars.  The diameter, mass, and axle size all seem about right for an automobile wheel.  Having spokes seems appropriate for an automotive wheel of the probable era.

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Posted by IRONHORSE77 on Saturday, September 8, 2007 1:07 PM
What about the axle?
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 13, 2007 12:10 PM
I think it's from some sort of farm implement. It's too big to be on an automobile/rail conversion. The single flange leads me to believe it didn't have a rubber tread or was part of a power transmission. How about part of the steering gear under a steam tractor?
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:29 AM

DD1,

It would be too big if you are thinking about the modern Hi-rail vehicles that run on their tires and use smaller flanged wheels as guides.  But back in the earlier era, they converted automobiles to railroad inspection cars by replacing their road wheels with flanged wheels of the same diameter.  This was a permanent conversion, so the vehicle could not switch back and forth between road and rail operation as is the case today.  It was stated by the finder that the wheel is 32" diameter, which would come pretty close to an automobile wheel and tire.

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Posted by spikejones52002 on Saturday, November 17, 2007 8:22 AM

I think I found a good possibility for your wheel.

I was watching RFD-TV.

C&PA RR,  Coudersport & Port Allegany RR  had a galloping Goose like railbus # 20.

It looked like a D&RGW's galloping goose from the front and a Trolley's smooth curved from the rear. It has a 4 wheel truck under the nose and a wheel like you showed under the rear.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 5:42 PM
It looks like a wheel simmaler to a 1913 car but a little smaller and it doesnt have a tire on it. If you can tell me if it is made out of wood the n i would know for sure.





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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:48 PM
Sorry, I can't identify the wheel. Looks like it has a flange on it which seems to indicate it was used on a rail. Could posibly be from some sort of track maintenance vehicle? It's too big to be from a handcar. Posibly from an agricultural implement. It may have had a solid rubber tread at one time.

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