Milwaukee Road bi polar

[081552]

My cousin took this photo of a Milwaukee Road bi polar in the early fifties. Based on other photos I think it's next to the Northern Pacific line somewhere in Washington. Can anyone provide the location?

I hope I got the photo link right!

3/28/07 Update:  I have several slides of NP steam taken at the same location. I know this because of the order of slides and the fact my cousin was on a trip with his parents to the Pacific northwest. 

 

 

[CMSTPP]

Hello.

Based on the information provided I don't think we can tell you were exactly this is located. I can say this though, The Milwaukee road did follow the NP for quite a few miles. In the picture though, The NP is not present. This is how it worked. The Milwaukee Road crossed the NP and the Missouri river near sixteen mile Canyon. From there, the Milwaukee followed the NP across from the river from sixteen mile pass almost all the way to Tacoma, Washington. You really need to look at a map to see where I have been talking about. but hopefully the info I have given you can help.

 James

[jimrice4449]

Actually the Milw and the NP diverged at St Regis w/ the NP following the Clark Fork river north and around Lake Pend d Oriel and then heading south to Spokane.   The Milw headed over St Paul Pass and down to Avery and from there headed pretty much due west crossing the NP line to Paco at Lind Wa.   They resumed parallel run on either side of the Yakima River from Ellensberg west.

I have no idea of the specific location of the pic, but (due to all the trackage visible) a wild guess would be Black River Jct

I have a quible on the date estimate.   The Bi-Polar in that color scheme would(probably) be pre-1950 since the Milw went to a simplified scheme(as on the FP-7s delivered that year) on both the engine and the train (Olympian Hiawatha).  On the train they omitted the maroon letterboard that shows on the cars in the pic.   they changed the roof color from light gray to dark (almost black) in 1949 or there abouts, so that would pretty much narrow the time frame down, although there could be a time lag of some months to transisition.  That color scheme on the engine would certainly locate the pic somewhere on the Coast Dvn (Othello to Seattle/Tacoma) since they didn't run on the Rocky Mt Dvn in that scheme.

[jimrice4449]

Actually the Milw and the NP diverged at St Regis w/ the NP following the Clark Fork river north and around Lake Pend d Oriel and then heading south to Spokane.   The Milw headed over St Paul Pass and down to Avery and from there headed pretty much due west crossing the NP line to Paco at Lind Wa.   They resumed parallel run on either side of the Yakima River from Ellensberg west.

I have no idea of the specific location of the pic, but (due to all the trackage visible) a wild guess would be Black River Jct

I have a quible on the date estimate.   The Bi-Polar in that color scheme would(probably) be pre-1950 since the Milw went to a simplified scheme(as on the FP-7s delivered that year) on both the engine and the train (Olympian Hiawatha).  On the train they omitted the maroon letterboard that shows on the cars in the pic.   they changed the roof color from light gray to dark (almost black) in 1949 or there abouts, so that would pretty much narrow the time frame down, although there could be a time lag of some months to transisition.  That color scheme on the engine would certainly locate the pic somewhere on the Coast Dvn (Othello to Seattle/Tacoma) since they didn't run on the Rocky Mt Dvn in that scheme.

[CMSTPP]

Actually the Milw and the NP diverged at St Regis w/ the NP following the Clark Fork river north and around Lake Pend d Oriel and then heading south to Spokane.   The Milw headed over St Paul Pass and down to Avery and from there headed pretty much due west crossing the NP line to Paco at Lind Wa.   They resumed parallel run on either side of the Yakima River from Ellensberg west.

I have no idea of the specific location of the pic, but (due to all the trackage visible) a wild guess would be Black River Jct

I have a quible on the date estimate.   The Bi-Polar in that color scheme would(probably) be pre-1950 since the Milw went to a simplified scheme(as on the FP-7s delivered that year) on both the engine and the train (Olympian Hiawatha).  On the train they omitted the maroon letterboard that shows on the cars in the pic.   they changed the roof color from light gray to dark (almost black) in 1949 or there abouts, so that would pretty much narrow the time frame down, although there could be a time lag of some months to transisition.  That color scheme on the engine would certainly locate the pic somewhere on the Coast Dvn (Othello to Seattle/Tacoma) since they didn't run on the Rocky Mt Dvn in that scheme.

Oh!, I looked at my map wrong... Yes, now it makes sence. Thanks for the pointer. I was looking at a map of the Rocky mountian division (That should have been the pointer telling me it wasn't going to washington.) But yes, I see St. Regis and it looks like there are two lines from there. Looks as if the NP follows the Milwaukee to Haugan and then starts to break away from it. From there the Milwaukee passes over into Idaho and stops at Avery, Idaho. So it all makes sence now. Sorry for the mistake..

James

[jimrice4449]

Actually, I kind of mis-spoke.   The NP & Milw Main lines diverged at St Regis, the NP Coeur d Alene branch to Wallace Id shared Milw track from St Regis to Haugan and then went its own way over Lookout Pass to Wallace.  (I'm not sure why they called it the CdA branch since there'd be no reason to run it all the way to the town of CdA since there was a branch off the main line from Spokane.  Possibly because the area was the Coeur d Alene Mining District)

[CMSTPP]

Actually, I kind of mis-spoke.   The NP & Milw Main lines diverged at St Regis, the NP Coeur d Alene branch to Wallace Id shared Milw track from St Regis to Haugan and then went its own way over Lookout Pass to Wallace.  (I'm not sure why they called it the CdA branch since there'd be no reason to run it all the way to the town of CdA since there was a branch off the main line from Spokane.  Possibly because the area was the Coeur d Alene Mining District)

That makes sence. I can see that the tracks for the NP diappeared at St. Regis onward to Haugan. So they did share some trackage. I thought that might be the case but I really couldn't tell. Thanks for the info.

James

[CMSTPP]

 

3/28/07 Update:  I have several slides of NP steam taken at the same location. I know this because of the order of slides and the fact my cousin was on a trip with his parents to the Pacific northwest. 

 

 

Then this would be located somewhere between St. Regis, Montana, and Haugans, Montana. This is only a 25 or so mile section that the Milwaukee and the NP shared. So any number of towns between these two points could be this location.

James

[jimrice4449]

Nope. The Bi=Polars went to the Rocky Mt Divn in the 1950s after they were rebuilt w/ the headlight faired into the front and generally smoothed out and w/the simplified color scheme.  That color scheme would be pre-1951 (allowing for a time lag between starting on the simplified scheme and getting all 5 units done) so it would definately be somewhere west of Othello and since the westbound was scheduled at Ellensberg ay 655 AM and the Eastbound at 533 PM that put it east of Ellensburg after dark.  I would say somewhere west of the Snoquolimie Summit and the presence of NP on the same roll of film makes Black River Jct look like a good guess.   If there are also UP and GN trains on the same roll of film that would clinch it.  (TaLk about a great train watching spot!!!)

[MichaelSol]

The location is four miles west/north of Black River Jct near Van Asselt yard. NP parallels the Milwaukee and has a grade crossing at Argo. It is possible that it just slightly east of Renton, looking west, based on the overhead seen further down the track.

[MichaelSol]

Martin, things have changed so much since that photo was taken, it's very hard to even describe. I've got the exact Milwaukee mileposts, but those aren't much good these days.  The photo is likely just north of the north end of Boeing Field where the old NP crossed the Milwaukee (which appears to be what the train is crossing). There is, however, a similar spot east of the old Renton substation where the NP had a similar crossover for its line south to Auburn -- I just don't quite recall the hill to the right of the photo at Renton. Could've been, but I am pushing my memory close to the sixty year mark trying to recall what that looked like there when that Bipolar went through. Pre-Interstate 5, there was something like that north of Boeing Field (King County Airport) and still is along Boeing Field.

At both locations, the catenary transitioned from arm to bridge supports.

Best regards, Michael Sol

[S&G Rute of the Silver River]

It looks like it might be taken outside Seattle. There is an eria like that, compleate with the foundation of what might be those sheds, but probally a quinsidence.