Niagaras into Chicago Central Station

[Anonymous]

Prior to 1957, most NYC passenger trains from the old Michigan Central used the IC from Kensington to Central Station.  I have seen plenty of pictures of NYC Hudsons there, but have never seen a picture of a 6000-class 4-8-4, i.e. a Niagara, there.  I wonder if there was some kind of restriction on them, such as 27th St. roundhouse turntable length or clearance problems, such as at the station or the 63rd St. el?  I have seen a picture of one on a NYC train at Detroit MC Stat., but that could have been on the "Twilight Limited" which operated into La Salle ST Stat.  Can anyone remember if they did operate into Central Station?

[KCSfan]

Bill, I never saw on either. I don't think it was due to any turntable length problems and certainly not due to any clearance limitations. I just think they were not used by the Michigan Central on their passenger trains, since the Hudsons and Pacifics were certainly capable of handling any train over the flatlands of Michigan and Indiana. I passed the roundhouse (which IIRC was at 23rd not 27th St) literally thousands of times as a commuter on the IC and don't remember ever seeing a NYC locomotive there. I'd see C&O Mikes there from time to time but I always assumed the MC engines were serviced at the NYC's own roundhouse. As an aside you may remember the only Big Four locomotive to run all the way to Central Station was the streamlined Pacific assigned to the original James Whitcomb Riley. All other trains from Indy and Cincy were headed by IC locomotives between Kankakee and Chicago.

Mark

[PBenham]

IC owned taller locomotives than NYC that I know of (MR Cyclopedia). There MAY have been a Michigan Central local/semi-local that might have caught a Niagara into Central, but after all these years...

[UP 829]

NYC didn't have all that many(27 if I remember right) and they were very good at pulling really heavy passenger trains extended distances with high availability. Although all the well known Limiteds where dieselized, Central had a lot of secondary trains and 2nd sections running the length of the mainline, plus mail and express traffic. They were built with flush smokestacks and reduced height aluminum cabs for clearances in the east, so I don't think that would have been a problem.

[daveklepper]

In my memory, Niagaras were never used on the Michigan Central.   But I believe Mowhawks were used, particularly on the Wolverine, which may have brought them to Chicago's Central Station.  The Empire State Express in its last steam days used a Niagara from Harmon to Buffalo, but then both the Detroit and Cleveland sections used Hudsons west of Buffalo, although a Niagara may occasionally have run through to Windemere, where the Cleveland Public Terminal electrics were put on. 

[PBenham]

In my memory, Niagaras were never used on the Michigan Central.   But I believe Mowhawks were used, particularly on the Wolverine, which may have brought them to Chicago's Central Station.  The Empire State Express in its last steam days used a Niagara from Harmon to Buffalo, but then both the Detroit and Cleveland sections used Hudsons west of Buffalo, although a Niagara may occasionally have run through to Windemere, where the Cleveland Public Terminal electrics were put on. 

Dave, may I break this to you gently...The eastern end of the CUT electrification was at Collinwood. Windemere was the RTA stop nearby, though. I wouldn't want to get off there without a bullet proof vest on! 

[daveklepper]

Of course you are right, and I will remember the correction.    Had been to both places, more than once.   But did anyone see a Mowhawk at Central Staiton?  I did see one once leave Ann Arbor westbound with the Woverine, and I wonder if it took the train directly to Central, Chicago.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Of course you are right, and I will remember the correction.    Had been to both places, more than once.   But did anyone see a Mowhawk at Central Staiton?  I did see one once leave Ann Arbor westbound with the Woverine, and I wonder if it took the train directly to Central, Chicago.

The Wolverine was one of the few Michigan Central trains that operated into La Salle Street in the steam era.

[daveklepper]

So THAT is why the Mowhawk stayed on the train west of Detroit.   I guess that answers the question.  By the time I began riding the Central Chicago- Detroit, 1967, all MC trains ran into LaSalle St.   And everything was diesel, of course.