Diesel Quiz part 5.0

[PBenham]

Lehigh Valley was the owner of an eclectic bunch of units. They favored Alco and EMD mostly, with bones thrown to Baldwin and GE.

SO: The Valley bought a boxcab from a source that would be qualified as unusual. Who would that be?

The Valley had 14 Alco PAs for most passenger work, but what were the other steam generator equipped units on the Valley, by model.

The Valley had a very diverse bunch of switchers from EMC/EMD, all of the earliest units were delivered in what paint scheme? The last ones were the first SW1s the Valley bought. You may use the designer or the train which was the inspiration for the scheme, here.

There are two restored C420s around in the "yellow jacket" scheme, which two '420s were the last units to wear that scheme before going to D&H where they wore that scheme briefly and for a while. BUT were they repainted by D&H in the order I might be employing?

Speaking of D&H which of their units were re-numbered to avoid confusion with which LV units?  And did LV get any of their own?

[scottychaos]

SO: The Valley bought a boxcab from a source that would be qualified as unusual. Who would that be?

I dont know that one!

The Valley had 14 Alco PAs for most passenger work, but what were the other steam generator equipped units on the Valley, by model.

Alco FA

The Valley had a very diverse bunch of switchers from EMC/EMD, all of the earliest units were delivered in what paint scheme? The last ones were the first SW1s the Valley bought. You may use the designer or the train which was the inspiration for the scheme, here.

this scheme! refered to as the "LV Pre-War scheme"

based loosly on the LV Asa Packer train, designed by Otto Kuhler.

There are two restored C420s around in the "yellow jacket" scheme,

Wrong..there is only one, #414. 

which two '420s were the last units to wear that scheme before going to D&H where they wore that scheme briefly and for a while.

412 & 413 were the last two yellowjackets when the units went to the D&H in 1976

BUT were they repainted by D&H in the order I might be employing?

I dont know what you are asking there..

Speaking of D&H which of their units were re-numbered to avoid confusion with which LV units?  And did LV get any of their own?

hmmm..dont know!

I know D&H renumbured a few of the C420's later on, but that wansnt to avoid confusion with LV units, since they WERE LV units! ;)

Scot

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The boxcab in question came from Brill, better known for doodlebugs, streetcars and buses.

 The only LV power that went to D&H on April 1, 1976 that was renumbered was GP38-2's 314-325, which were renumbered D&H 7314-7325.  The C420's kept their numbers when they went to D&H although some were later sold to Arkansas & Missouri and got new numbers there.

[scottychaos]

The boxcab in question came from Brill, better known for doodlebugs, streetcars and buses.

 The only LV power that went to D&H on April 1, 1976 that was renumbered was GP38-2's 314-325, which were renumbered D&H 7314-7325.  The C420's kept their numbers when they went to D&H although some were later sold to Arkansas & Missouri and got new numbers there.

 

Brill? I woudnt consider that "unusual"..

I think he meant "what locomotives *already* on the D&H roster had to be renumbured because of the  LV locomotives that joined the roster on 4-1-76" 

 

Scot

 

[Mimbrogno]

I know of another steam generator locomotive, LV #200, their sole DRS 4-4-1500 was equiped with one and was originally purchased as a switcher for passenger terminals. The steam generator was desired because the switcher could warm up the cars while they were brought to the platform, so the passengers wouldn't have to sit in cold cars, waiting for the road units to warm them up.

 I'm afraid I specialize in just Baldwins, so I'm not much help for the other parts!

 Matthew Imbrogno
Mechanical Vollenteer, Arizona Railway Museum
www.azrymuseum.org 

[PBenham]

Well, Paul knew the Brill unit answer, as usual ,well done!

The answer Alco FA is incorrect (in part). There were no FA1s with steam generators, that I know about. Alco advised customers to buy an FB1 if they wanted passenger Fs from them. So, Chaos gets a half on that one.

There is another restored C420. So, that one is still open as is the question of which C420 was repainted first from the yellow jacket scheme by D&H. I hope that clarifies the question.

The units D&H had to re-number is still up as is the question; did LV also buy this model?

Finally I knew that the 200 would be ferreted out by our "resident" Baldwin expert from Arizona. I wanna go there instead of dealing with the winters here. Matt gets a well done, too!

[scottychaos]

The answer Alco FA is incorrect (in part). There were no FA1s with steam generators, that I know about. Alco advised customers to buy an FB1 if they wanted passenger Fs from them. So, Chaos gets a half on that one.

 

opps..I should have said "Alco FPA"..(although personally I have always considered a FPA the same thing as an FA just with a steam generator) LV had two Alco FPA's.

There is another restored C420. So, that one is still open

sorry, but that one is not "still open"..there is only one LV C420 currently in the yellowjacket scheme..I am not uncertain about this! 100%, without a doubt, there is only one.

please see my "Lehigh Valley Survivors" webpage for more information on the current status of the C420's:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~scottychaos/LVRR.html

The units D&H had to re-number is still up as is the question; did LV also buy this model?

 

are you sure about that one? I cant seem to find out any information about what locos D&H had to renumber..that ones a stumper! None of the D&H loco classes (that im aware of) that existed when the LV units arrived seem to have been numbured in the 404-415 or 7314-7325 number series..so im not getting that one...

 

this site:

http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/dhroster.html

lists all the D&H diesel classes, and lists their numbers...none of them had the same numbers as the LV engines.. 

so im 99% sure the D&H didnt have to renumber any engines because of the arrival of the LV engines. (but I could be wrong! ;) 

Scot 

 

 

[PBenham]

Let's try revising the wording. When NE-84 and NE-87 began running D&H had to re-number some of their units to avoid a conflict with some LV units. Which D&H units were effected and which LV unit numbers did they conflict with?

Then, did LV own any of the model locomotive D&H had to re-number?

There were a pair of FPA2s on LV's roster: 590 and 594. But, not all sources agree that they were FPA2s or FA2s with a steam generator. They were geared for a maximum speed of 65 MPH and 80% of the time they ran with the Valley's other FA/B units in freight service.

[scottychaos]

ok..we give up!

which D&H units were renumbured?

 

Scot 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'll try again.  D&H U23B's in the 300 series were re-numbered into the 2300 series prior to 1976, probably because of the aforementioned run-throughs.  LV had a variety of GP9/18/38's also numbered in the 300's.  LV later purchased USRA-funded U23B's 501-512, which later went to Conrail.

[scottychaos]

I'll try again.  D&H U23B's in the 300 series were re-numbered into the 2300 series prior to 1976, probably because of the aforementioned run-throughs.  LV had a variety of GP9/18/38's also numbered in the 300's.  LV later purchased USRA-funded U23B's 501-512, which later went to Conrail.

 

ooh!

I thought he meant that some D&H units were renumbured because of the arrival of the LV C420's and GP38-2's to the D&H roster on 4/1/76..

ok then..its mostly clear now! ;)

Scot

[JonathanS]

I think that the boxcab you are thinking of is LV 112.  That 65 ton 3 axle Mack.  But I prefer the 45 ton center cab Macks.

[PBenham]

I think that the boxcab you are thinking of is LV 112.  That 65 ton 3 axle Mack.  But I prefer the 45 ton center cab Macks.

Wouldn't you like to have seen that Mack in classic Cornell red?

And high marks to Paul again!

[MopacBarrettTunnel]

<>I know I'm coming in a bit late, but let's not forget the OTHER  LV unit with a boiler - RS-3 #211!!!  Yes, I know she's technically a second-hander, but she WAS on the roster before Conrail. The original diesel scheme introduced on the EMC SW's was pretty much a standard EMC layout; I can think of a half-dozen other roads {Mopac, GTW} who adopted the same basic design, only in black and grey with either white or gold stripes - a design most famous as the long-lived Belt Railway of Chicago paint scheme.  LV chose the colors of "wine red, light grey, and Dulux Gold striping" {according to X2200 South} to honor the then-new "Asa Packer" scheme. 

As for the boxcabs, LV was indeed eclectic; in addition to Brill, Mack, and AGEIR's, they also owned an experimental pair of EMC 400-hp "Model 60" gas-electrics, built about the same time the Rock Island was tinkering with the "doodlebug-as-a-straight-locomotive" idea with their purchase of EMC-St. Louis Car "all engine" boxcabs, which looked similar to the LV units.  And finally, let's not overlook my personal favorite LV units, the scaled-down Alco "HH-300" experimentals of 1930, which forecast the true low-hood switcher pattern that didn't catch on until 1935...........