Second Sections operated prior to Amtrak?

[081552]

Does anyone know what railroads operated second sections in the last few years prior to Amtrak outside the Northeast corridor?

[jimrice4449]

The Santa Fe generally ran the Super Chief and the El Capitan as a single train, but in peak travel times would run them as two sections of no 17  or 18.   (prior to their consolidation the El Capitan had its own numbers, 21 and 22)

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

UP would also run the City of Los Angeles & City of San Francisco in separate sections in peak periods.

[wjstix]

I believe during peak times like summer and Xmas, both the NP North Coast Limited and GN Empire Builder ran second sections. (Summer was busy because both trains served national parks (Yellowstone and Glacier, respectively), and many visitors took the train there in pre-interstate highway times.)

[artpeterson]

Hi there -

Even Amtrak would sometimes operate extra sections of the "Builder" in the early days.  On at least one instance, an "advance'' train was operated in late 1971 between Minneapolis and Chicago.  This train had a pair of Milwaukee Road e-units and was trailed by 5 or 6 coaches.  The day's regular "Builder" followed this train by probably 20-30 minutes.

Art 

[spokyone]

The Santa Fe generally ran the Super Chief and the El Capitan as a single train, but in peak travel times would run them as two sections of no 17  or 18.   (prior to their consolidation the El Capitan had its own numbers, 21 and 22)

I rode the Super Chief LA to Chi and returned on the El Capitan on 2 occasions. They were in 2 sections both times.  I was not aware that sometimes they were a single train.

 Thanks Jim

[wjstix]

Didn't some of the NY-Chicago trains like the Broadway Ltd and the 20th Century sometimes run with like 4-5-6 sections?? Thought I read that in Stouffers "Thoroughbreds" book on NYC Hudsons.....

[rji2]

The L&N swapped through cars to and from the Hummingbird and the Georgian in Nashville.  For example, a Chicago-New Orleans sleeper off the Georgian would be switched to the Hummingbird, and a Cincinnati-Atlanta sleeper off the Hummingbird would be switched to the Georgian, etc.  If one of the trains was appeciably late, its through cars would be run as a second section to avoid holding the regular connection more than a pre-determined length of time, usually about an hour.

[daveklepper]

The mutliple sections of the Century and Broadway occured before the switch of business travel to the airlines.   But Classic Trains did report a rare operation of a 2nd Section Century eastbound in a recent issue in the next to last year of the Century's operation, with photographs.   Both sections had round-end obs, the first the regular Creek car and the second a stainless steel car, probably one used previously on the Laurentian and Empire State Express.

 

On the other hand during WWII about half the major long distance passenger trains had second sections or more.   Often these were troop trains, running as second sections, but often they were regular trains.  I rode second sections on the Havana Special, an advance section of the Congressional (which became the Afternoon Congressional after WWII, but there was no Morning Congressional during WWII).  After the Merchants Limited lost its all parlor status, its coach ridership mushroomed to require an Advance Merchants Limited on a regular basis, aboutg 1952 or 1953.  I think this lasted until the Eastern Shuttle was inaugurated.

[Anonymous]

Until about 1967 when the mail came off, during Christmas season Santa Fe also split 15/16 TX Chief to HOU/DAL and ran 15/16 CHI-HOU and 115/116 CHI-DAL as a second section of 15/16 as far as Gainesville TX, where it normally split from 15/16 to HOU through FTW.  South of Gainesville, DAL section ceased being a second section and ran normally as 115/116.  This duplicated original operations from 1955 (when DAL line completed and DAL section inaugurated) through the late 1950's, after which the trains were consolidated north of Gainesville.  During the DAL-CHI through operation, 115/116 was swelled from its usual 1 bag, 2 chair, 1 10-6 consist (1 more car and they had to add another brakeman) to a complete consist incorporating 1+ bag, 3-4 chair, diner, lounge, and 2-3 sleepers (usually 1-2 10-6 cars and a 4-4-2 or 11 dbr car, and occasionally a 10-3-2.  These sleepers were mostly ATSF but also would occasionally draw on the Pullman pool).

[wjstix]

Just a follow-up, for Xmas I got the book "Northern Pacific Diesel Era 1945-1970", it mentions that during WW2 peak travel times, the NP's North Coast Limited often ran up to 12 sections each direction !!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Multiple sections of passenger trains on Santa Fe were often a matter of operating policy as special or extra passenger trains would be operated as sections of scheduled runs.  Troop trains were often run as sections of 7-8, the Fast Mail, during WW2.