Steam Turbine

[Anonymous]

Back around 1950 I was present at the unveiling of a Steam Turbine Electric locomotive manufactured by General Motors Electromotive Division. It was quite an impressibe monster. I never heard about after that. Anyone else familiar with this Locomotive?

[SSW9389]

I find no record of an GM-EMD Steam Turbine Electric (STE). Do you remember what city this was in? I find no record of any STE built during the time frame you are stating.

C&O's STE #500-502 were built 12/46-6/47 by Baldwin. N&W's STE Jawn Henry #2300 was built 5/54 by Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton. These are the only STEs I found for the time period.

Source of data X2200 South #53.

 

 

[PBenham]

We should cut DannyO some slack, here. 1950 is a long time ago. I know even if I was born the same day Lima out shopped its last locomotive ( a 2500 HP transfer locomotive, 9-11-51) Granted, EMD never had built anything other than diesel electrics. (except for some electric switchers for INCO, SW1200DCs, the GM6C, the GM10B and BCRail's GF6Cs)
That having been said, it is not out of the realm of probability that IHB MIGHT have had the UP steamotive..But they were built in 1939 and retired twice! in 1941 (by UP) and (by GN) in 1943. My best guess is that DannyO saw a C&O 500 on display during 1948 or 49 at the Chicago railfair! And I'll give him a Mulligan, since it HAS been 58 years since C&O was showing their turbines off to the public. The saddest part of all this is that the 500s went to the scrap heap within months of their display at the railfair. Coal fired turbine power represented one of those theories that looked great on paper, but took a deep dark (censored) in the real world!

[Anonymous]

It was in Columbus, Ohio. The unit was articulated with the coal tender. It was fed by a conveyer to the firebox.

[Anonymous]

It was definitely a GM EMD loco. I had never heard of EMD before I went to view the unit at its unveiling. Until then I only knew GM made automobiles. I was working for the Pennsylvania RR that summer as a section hand. Only steamers were being used on the freight lines there at that time.

[wjstix]

I'm going to have to keep looking on this one !! I did find General ELECTRIC & Westinghouse came out with a turbine demonstrator locomotive in 1950.

I'm not sure that there is/was a GM facility in Columbus Ohio. EMD did have a plant in Cleveland I believe?? Most EMD's were made in LaGrange IL of course. Lima was in Lima, Ohio, and Baldwin (or Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton??) did do some turbines. I found references to EMD planning some turbines but not ever building one.

[PBenham]

Westinghouse built a very EMD like gas turbine in 1950, the "Blue Goose". However, it did not have a separate tender. Perhaps a C&O 500 had been used as trade in material on a C&O F7, and it--Naaah! But me thinks that someone would have found 411 on an EMD steam turbine before now, especially if it had been on display in Columbus OH. C&O however would have had an excuse to display a 500 there, but in 1948. I have been known to mix years up on memories from a half century ago, my dad screws up dates (I do that all the time, explaining why I'm single! Ka-BOOM!) events happened so there we are.

[wjstix]

Well DannyO, let me play Sherlock Holmes and ask some questions....

1. Why were you there??  That is, you said you worked for PRR, was this a PRR locomotive being unveiled or ??

2. Can you remember any more details about it?? What color for example?? Was it painted for a railroad, or a demonstrator, or ??

3. Why was it in Columbus Ohio?? Was that where it was made?? Was it being delivered to a railroad who were taking possession in Columbus, or ??

[PBenham]

Brilliant, I say, Brilliant! Columbus,OH was,prior to C&O's acquisition of the Hocking Valley Railway, it's northern terminus. So, it logically would be a prime place to exhibit their million dollar baby. The M-1s/500s were very expensive for their time and Robert R. Young had some serious 'splainin' to do when they "bombed out"!

[wjstix]

Is this what you're thinking of??

http://www.skyrocket.de/locomotive/img/co_m1_500b.jpg

[Anonymous]

I lived in Worthington at the time. I worked on the Pennsy the summer between junior and senior years of High School. My great uncle was an engineer on the Big Four and like most kids then, trains, especially steamers were fascinating. The engine was on display in the yards north of downtown. I don't remember any more of the details.

 

"Blue Goose" rings a bell but I don't know if it is because of the "Royal Blue", an American Flyer set I had or the "Spruce Goose" which I was also fascinated by.

I don't remember why it was there but I think it was at the Pennsy yards that it was displayed.

[Anonymous]

Could very well be. I do remember that it was HUGE. I was only 15 or 16 at the time but I was used to seeing freight locos and I was awed by this one's size. Who made the M1/500s?

[Anonymous]

It is possible that it could have been as early as 1948 but my recollection was that it was while I was working on the RR. Could be wrong though. Memory does fool you at times.

[Anonymous]

I found a photo of the "Blue Goose" loco. It looks just like the "Royal Blue" American Flyer electric train I had. Could it be that Gilbert changed the name of their model?

[wjstix]

Well I think Lionel had a "Blue Comet" trainset, that used the name of a real train on I think the Central RR of New Jersey?? It came out around 1930 in standard guage, and a little later in O I believe.

There may have been a real "Royal Blue" passenger train on the B&O (or C&O??) but I'm not sure. On the Santa Fe the Bluebird / Blue Goose was just the nickname of the engines, the trains weren't called that. (I think they were first used on the Chief. I think the later Super Chief was always diesel pulled but could be wrong.)

[PBenham]

C&O's M1s, were a joint C&O, Baldwin and Westinghouse project. Baldwin assembled these beasts and Westinghouse supplied the turbine and associated electrical gear. They were built for the ill-fated "Chessie" streamliner intended to be run Washington-Cincinnati. But, future merger partner B&O found out that the run had little potential patronage. Worse, N&W's "Powhatan Arrow" proved there was not much need for a Hampton Roads/Norfolk-Cincinnati train, either!
The turbines were a very expensive and embarrassing bust for all parties concerned. It is reputed none of the M1s made a full trip Washington-Cincinnati whether on test or in service on the C&O's regular trains.

[wjstix]

It was definitely a GM EMD loco. I had never heard of EMD before I went to view the unit at its unveiling. Until then I only knew GM made automobiles. I was working for the Pennsylvania RR that summer as a section hand. Only steamers were being used on the freight lines there at that time.

I wonder if it's possible that while this was on display you maybe saw some C&O GM diesels?? The railroad did have EMD engines in 1948. In 1949-50 EMD had a trio of three silver and blue GP-7 demonstrators touring the country, maybe they had them there at the same time they were showing off the turbine??

[wjstix]

I found a photo of the "Blue Goose" loco. It looks just like the "Royal Blue" American Flyer electric train I had. Could it be that Gilbert changed the name of their model?

BTW the American Flyer "Royal Blue" is discussed (with pic) in the Dec 2006 RMC in the "Collector's Consist" column.

[Anonymous]

I would be interested in this article. What is "RMC"?

[Anonymous]

RMC = Railroad Model Craftsman; a model magazine published by Carstens of New Jersey.

Originally a Charles Penn publication called Model Craftsman covering more than just model railroading.  When Al Kalmbach heard that Mr. Penn was going all railroad and was going to name the magazine Model Railroad Craftsman (if memory serves), Al persuaded him to name it something else as it was too close to 'Model Railroader'.

Art

[Anonymous]

Thanks Art